1HBH woes

[beltsman]

I play at 4.0 level with a 1HBH.

Strengths: It is a fine shot in BH-BH rallies. I can turn a short or soft ball into a winner and hit very nice, spinny CC angles.

Weaknesses: I have difficulty hitting DTL with authority. But probably more importantly, it breaks down under heavy shots or on balls out of my strike zone. I can manage for a bit, but as the match goes on, I either lose confidence or get tired with my footwork, leading to weak shots from me unless it's a nice ball in my strike zone.

I instinctively brush the ball more (feeling rushed) rather than drive it. I end up leaving the ball way short and too spinny, and mainly my opponents kill me with dropshots off those short balls.

Tactically, until I improve, the solution is probably to hit good, deep slices back on any BH ball where I don't feel in position to hit a strong topspin. I used to slice a lot but forced myself to hit more topspin because when I sliced I felt like I gave up control of rallies. Maybe I can work on BH slice DTL to break the pattern.

I know that I need to do better with footwork and keep it up the entire match. But is there anything else you would recommend, technique-wise, to better drive balls with pace or balls out of my strike zone? A ball that is a little too high or too low I really struggle to get a solid, non-brushing hit. Is it all footwork? Should I learn a sort of block drive?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

There has got to be a FH somewhere in this discussion that you should have hit for a winner. Focus on that.

 

[Fintft]

1. My coach told me not to hit the ball at its apex, but either on its way down or on the rise for the 1HBH.
2. Also to rotate the shoulder more on the follow thru.
3. Do you keep eyes at contact, during contact?
4. Do you swing with confidence in practice? If not in practice, then when?(I never slice in practice and very seldom in matches, unless really scrambling to defend)
5. When I practice against weaker parteners, I hit most of my 1HBHs DTL ( also bc their BHs are crap).
6. You may want to use a racquet that is light enough, yet also whippy (decent sw)
7. Similarily are you using a controlled, yet powerful string?
8. And yes run around it, like Tsitsipas who hits 70% FHs, if you can.

 

[ubercat]

Steeper swing path. 60% effort and loop. Most people will try go CC with a DTL shot to FH. Not easy to do off a high deep ball. I love loopy shots because it gives them trouble too if they rush the net.

 

[Dragy]

Hey fellow OHBHer!
First, I believe you can solve low balls quite easily (not talking scrambling). Get a bit lower with your legs. Move towards the ball/let it come a bit closer. Lean over slightly. Drop your arm more along the body and swing out to the ball, release your racquet head to lift&spin it. Get clean contact (not too close to the tip).

Remember you lift it with racquet head, not with arm! Remember what a good shot is here: high arcing topspin that travels past service line and bounces high - doesn’t matter if it is slowish

High balls will be likely more challenging. From intention standpoint, again go for high over the net, good spin (but no extra lift, more forward), and not hard and fast. If it’s uncomfortable = it’s defensive and neutralizing.

From execution standpoint:
- use both hands to line up the shot, split into contact
- bend your legs in prep: don’t stay tall because you expect high contact, but get tall during the swing
- get behind the ball more and open your chest to contact: if you hit it CC, open strongly
- hold your racquet more perpendicular, more fist, don’t release it with relaxed wrist
- let your hand go below the contact level - racquet head above handle
- intend sidespin, presence of sidespin is a good sign on high balls

But better still move forward - to fast-intercept it while rising - or back - to lift it high and deep from comfortable height

And slice is 100% legit, just don’t let him be too confident he can make you hit slices: run around as you read him preparing to roll it to your BH

 

[Tennisfever]

Hey fellow OHBHer!
First, I believe you can solve low balls quite easily (not talking scrambling). Get a bit lower with your legs. Move towards the ball/let it come a bit closer. Lean over slightly. Drop your arm more along the body and swing out to the ball, release your racquet head to lift&spin it. Get clean contact (not too close to the tip).

Remember you lift it with racquet head, not with arm! Remember what a good shot is here: high arcing topspin that travels past service line and bounces high - doesn’t matter if it is slowish

High balls will be likely more challenging. From intention standpoint, again go for high over the net, good spin (but no extra lift, more forward), and not hard and fast. If it’s uncomfortable = it’s defensive and neutralizing.

From execution standpoint:
- use both hands to line up the shot, split into contact
- bend your legs in prep: don’t stay tall because you expect high contact, but get tall during the swing
- get behind the ball more and open your chest to contact: if you hit it CC, open strongly
- hold your racquet more perpendicular, more fist, don’t release it with relaxed wrist
- let your hand go below the contact level - racquet head above handle
- intend sidespin, presence of sidespin is a good sign on high balls

But better still move forward - to fast-intercept it while rising - or back - to lift it high and deep from comfortable height

And slice is 100% legit, just don’t let him be too confident he can make you hit slices: run around as you read him preparing to roll it to your BH

On the sidespin thing, for a righthanded player, do you mean sidespin to the left or to the right?

 

[Dragy]

On the sidespin thing, for a righthanded player, do you mean sidespin to the left or to the right?

To the left, "fade" type of shot, like Thiem on most shots here:

(his CC drives curve to stay in)

 

[Tennisfever]

To the left, "fade" type of shot, like Thiem on most shots here:

(his CC drives curve to stay in)

Ok, thanks. Will give that a try!

 

[Yamin]

Make sure you're getting that foot over and not trying to hit an open stance backhand. I personally don't take the racket back as high when I need a more driving backhand.

 

[mucat]

I also play 1HBH and it got punished a lot. It also got a lot of practice because of that .
I found my opponents dislike my slice BH very much
I feel like we have come to similar conclusion. I think if we are not in position to attack, slice it back is a very good solution.
When I defense with my slice, I sometimes change the direction (to DTL). I noticed if I only slice it back xcourt, my opponent sometimes just sit at the inside-out FH and each of them came back better than the last one. So by moving they to the right, they have to sort of reset their FH. Of course, DTL is a less than ideal geometry, but for whatever reason, I won some points outright and sometimes reset the point.
There is also the open stance topspin BH xcourt deep. It surprises my opponent sometimes when I mixed that with slice BH.
And sometimes the BH slice works so well I will do less of the topspin BH than I should.

 

[Injured Again]

I play at 4.0 level with a 1HBH.

Strengths: It is a fine shot in BH-BH rallies. I can turn a short or soft ball into a winner and hit very nice, spinny CC angles.

Weaknesses: I have difficulty hitting DTL with authority. But probably more importantly, it breaks down under heavy shots or on balls out of my strike zone. I can manage for a bit, but as the match goes on, I either lose confidence or get tired with my footwork, leading to weak shots from me unless it's a nice ball in my strike zone.

I instinctively brush the ball more (feeling rushed) rather than drive it. I end up leaving the ball way short and too spinny, and mainly my opponents kill me with dropshots off those short balls.

Tactically, until I improve, the solution is probably to hit good, deep slices back on any BH ball where I don't feel in position to hit a strong topspin. I used to slice a lot but forced myself to hit more topspin because when I sliced I felt like I gave up control of rallies. Maybe I can work on BH slice DTL to break the pattern.

I know that I need to do better with footwork and keep it up the entire match. But is there anything else you would recommend, technique-wise, to better drive balls with pace or balls out of my strike zone? A ball that is a little too high or too low I really struggle to get a solid, non-brushing hit. Is it all footwork? Should I learn a sort of block drive?

I'm a 4.5 with a OHBH that is "at level" or above and I have problems consistently hitting topspin DTL even when the ball is right in my wheelhouse. It's just a tough shot, and for me what makes it tough is to judge the correct spacing. When I try to hit DTL, I try to get the ball a few inches closer and then as I swing I do so with my hand a little closer to my opposite side hip and then try to swing more directly forward. When I hit crosscourt, I tend to swing with a more circular path.

I'll almost never try to come over a shoulder high ball and go DTL. I just don't have that shot in my skill set. If someone approaches high to my backhand, I'll chip it low and hope to be able to get a better swing at the second shot.

At my age, I'm one of the few guys who can still hit an effective topspin backhand. However, the question I'm asked a lot by the former very high level players who are helping/coaching me, is whether or not the risk of hitting that shot is worth it. For instance, if I get into a crosscourt backhand rally and my opponent hits a firm and biting slice into the corner, I'll often still topspin that back. I'll miss that more than if I underspin it back, and so the question to me is what did I gain by trying to hit a topspin in that situation? If I didn't gain any advantage by hitting a topspin, but I make more errors off it, then I would be better hitting an underspin back. I can more accurately aim my underspin than my topspin, and if my opponent can't hit a lot of topspin, then they have a low shot they need to get up and down so they can't be that aggressive either. So why not wait for a better shot to hit that topspin?

One last point. A topspin ball that travels faster with fewer RPMs will drop basically as fast as a heavier spin ball that's traveling slower. Topspin balls drop because of air pressure changes caused by flow above and below the ball. You need ball velocity for the spin to have effect, and the faster the ball goes the more effect any amount of spin will have. Try hitting the ball 15% faster but with half the spin. I think you'll find the ball's flight to be relatively the same.

I feel like I've posted this video a bunch of times. It was during my testing of the v3 Pure Strike, and I was hitting against a ball machine set for maximum underspin shots into my backhand corner. I hit both cross and down the line, and you can see how I swing slightly differently when going DTL.

 

[beltsman]

I'm a 4.5 with a OHBH that is "at level" or above and I have problems consistently hitting topspin DTL even when the ball is right in my wheelhouse. It's just a tough shot, and for me what makes it tough is to judge the correct spacing. When I try to hit DTL, I try to get the ball a few inches closer and then as I swing I do so with my hand a little closer to my opposite side hip and then try to swing more directly forward. When I hit crosscourt, I tend to swing with a more circular path.

I'll almost never try to come over a shoulder high ball and go DTL. I just don't have that shot in my skill set. If someone approaches high to my backhand, I'll chip it low and hope to be able to get a better swing at the second shot.

At my age, I'm one of the few guys who can still hit an effective topspin backhand. However, the question I'm asked a lot by the former very high level players who are helping/coaching me, is whether or not the risk of hitting that shot is worth it. For instance, if I get into a crosscourt backhand rally and my opponent hits a firm and biting slice into the corner, I'll often still topspin that back. I'll miss that more than if I underspin it back, and so the question to me is what did I gain by trying to hit a topspin in that situation? If I didn't gain any advantage by hitting a topspin, but I make more errors off it, then I would be better hitting an underspin back. I can more accurately aim my underspin than my topspin, and if my opponent can't hit a lot of topspin, then they have a low shot they need to get up and down so they can't be that aggressive either. So why not wait for a better shot to hit that topspin?

One last point. A topspin ball that travels faster with fewer RPMs will drop basically as fast as a heavier spin ball that's traveling slower. Topspin balls drop because of air pressure changes caused by flow above and below the ball. You need ball velocity for the spin to have effect, and the faster the ball goes the more effect any amount of spin will have. Try hitting the ball 15% faster but with half the spin. I think you'll find the ball's flight to be relatively the same.

I feel like I've posted this video a bunch of times. It was during my testing of the v3 Pure Strike, and I was hitting against a ball machine set for maximum underspin shots into my backhand corner. I hit both cross and down the line, and you can see how I swing slightly differently when going DTL.

Good post. I guess I have mentally tried so hard to develop my topspin BH that I don't slice enough. I typically only slice when I really feel out of position, which is more of a defensive slice. I should work on an offensive slice from my BH corner.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

To the left, "fade" type of shot, like Thiem on most shots here:

(his CC drives curve to stay in)

Ok, thanks. Will give that a try!

-good video example
-i would also like you to note how far THIEM is from the baseline
-you cannot be offensive 100% of the time with the 1hbh, you gotta get into position for that!!
-the 1HBH is a weak/liability shot!, "IF" you are not in the position (spacing/footwork/strike zone) to hit it with authority
-i luv my 1hbh, but i must be in the correct range/spot to ,"let the big dog eat!!"

 

[Injured Again]

Good post. I guess I have mentally tried so hard to develop my topspin BH that I don't slice enough. I typically only slice when I really feel out of position, which is more of a defensive slice. I should work on an offensive slice from my BH corner.

We're kind of in the same position - I hit my topspin BH because I'm one of the few who can still do it effectively. We both fall to much in love with it and use it when an equally good but less error prone shot, or one that can be aimed to a smaller target with equal reliability, is available.

The guys who are helping me pretty much discourage me from trying to be offensive with a slice from behind the baseline. If I have the time and am in position to be offensive, then I should hit a topspin shot. Their general advice is that "offensive" on an underspin backhand should mean placement and spin more than speed and penetration. If I'm behind the baseline and am slicing, the primary goal should be to maintain neutral advantage in the rally, waiting for a better shot to become offensive. If the underspin gets me a weak shot, all the better, but not to plan on it creating a weaker shot.

 

[Dragy]

We're kind of in the same position - I hit my topspin BH because I'm one of the few who can still do it effectively. We both fall to much in love with it and use it when an equally good but less error prone shot, or one that can be aimed to a smaller target with equal reliability, is available.

The guys who are helping me pretty much discourage me from trying to be offensive with a slice from behind the baseline. If I have the time and am in position to be offensive, then I should hit a topspin shot. Their general advice is that "offensive" on an underspin backhand should mean placement and spin more than speed and penetration. If I'm behind the baseline and am slicing, the primary goal should be to maintain neutral advantage in the rally, waiting for a better shot to become offensive. If the underspin gets me a weak shot, all the better, but not to plan on it creating a weaker shot.

Being offensive is quite a broad concept. If you look at some YouTube videos which describe the concept, there are several major methods:
- Attack with power (ball speed)
- Attack with placement (angles)
- Attack with placement (deep/short)
- Attack with spin (low/high/side bounce)
- Attack by taking time away from opponent

Usually being behind the baseline limits many options. If you still want to attack, I’d go with heavy topspin. Depth can be achieved, but farther you are behind the baseline - harder to precisely land your balls.
But actually being pushed back admit you are in defensive position and go with neutralizing shot - either deep roller or deep slice. Alternatively - avoid being pushed back by taking ball on the rise, be that topspin or slice.

 

[Injured Again]

Being offensive is quite a broad concept.

Even more than what you wrote, being offensive depends on the opponent. I play a guy who is a rhythm player and loves pace, and so a play to get on the offensive with him is to float him a nice, deep, slow underspin to his backhand - if he's been missing, I'll often get a pretty safe return back which lets me be offensive on the next shot. Most rec players can be perfectly comfortable with a ball at a certain height, but raise (and sometimes lower) their contact point on that same ball by half a racquet's length and it becomes an offensive shot.

In the more traditional definition of offensive, I think there's more to be gained by not missing when you shouldn't miss, than by incrementally making a strong shot already stronger. Combining shot tolerance with the ability to put away balls is a tough combo to compete against at the rec level.

 

[Dragy]

deep, slow underspin to his backhand

Yeah sure, that’s covered by “with spin” and “with placement” options. If you intentionally go for some particular shot that is to disrupt your opponent, that should be considered attacking, shouldn’t it?

 

[Injured Again]

Yeah sure, that’s covered by “with spin” and “with placement” options. If you intentionally go for some particular shot that is to disrupt your opponent, that should be considered attacking, shouldn’t it?

Sure. I was trying to make the point that what is an offensive shot against an opponent can vary with the opponent and their dislikes.

 

[onehandbh]

We're kind of in the same position - I hit my topspin BH because I'm one of the few who can still do it effectively. We both fall to much in love with it and use it when an equally good but less error prone shot, or one that can be aimed to a smaller target with equal reliability, is available.

The guys who are helping me pretty much discourage me from trying to be offensive with a slice from behind the baseline. If I have the time and am in position to be offensive, then I should hit a topspin shot. Their general advice is that "offensive" on an underspin backhand should mean placement and spin more than speed and penetration. If I'm behind the baseline and am slicing, the primary goal should be to maintain neutral advantage in the rally, waiting for a better shot to become offensive. If the underspin gets me a weak shot, all the better, but not to plan on it creating a weaker shot.

I like using my slice to set up my topspin backhand. Sometimes my slice is able to get me a ball back with less on it. Against guys with a good slice it can turn into all slice rally.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I studied high speed videos of ATP players and Justine Henin for their one hand backhand techniques. There were a number of similar specific sub-motions in use.

These sub-motions are described as they were found. Pace from the most widely used technique comes from coupling the uppermost body turn to the upper arm by what was named 'chest press'. Not all ATP 1HBH players use 'chest press,' notably Federer does not.

Read OP and post #51 ('chest press'), then see the all posts related to each sub-motion.

One Hand Backhand - What Force to Start Forward Swing?

I have just been watching great one-hand backhands at the Madrid Open. Including excellent slow motion that can be replayed in even slower motion or single frame with my DVR.

Often when I try to swing forward for a one hand backhand the stroke is very weak in the initial acceleration, especially if I'm rushed. The ball contact is extremely late on heavy pace and often the ball goes off at an angle and into the ground.

On very rare occasions in the past, when I was hitting better pace 1HBHs, if I had a set up on the backhand side and ran forward for the ball I could hit a monster TP backhand with confidence. Not for some years now....... So I know that heavy pace backhands are possible. I am wondering where that stroke came from. ?

This question deals with only that time when the one hand backhand backswing is just completed and the the racket is starting to accelerate.

Biomechanical issues -

1) Shoulders orientation, back at about 45°(?) to the baseline, etc., and also the angle of the arm to the shoulder to start the forward swing- the upper arm is out from the body. Why are these angles used and their purpose in accelerating the upper arm?

2) Why does the racket go back to well above the head? Why is the first part of the stroke downward?

3) Does the lat work on the upper arm. How? Is that why the upper arm is always raised out from the body in high level backhands - so that it can shorten and move the upper arm?

4) Effect of body turning to initially propel the shoulder & arm forward. ?

5) Which muscles contribute to downward & forward arm & racket motion? Which contribute to racket head speed and in what degree: lat, rear delt, others? The racket and arm seem to accelerate strongly downward at first picking up speed and then swing to a more forward direction for impact.

6) How is the stretch-shortening cycle at work in the 1hbh? Especially for the initial upper arm motion.


For illustrations, see the one hand backhands at end of the take back and ready for the forward swing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ill...8EJj54APhh4CgBQ&ved=0CEsQsAQ&biw=1334&bih=702

Some especially good illustrations of just before the forward swing are on tennis.about.com , strokes #5,6,7.
http://tennis.about.com/od/playersm...e-pro-one-handed-topspin-backhand-grips_6.htm

Slow motion videos on the 1HBH including frames showing the start of the one hand backhand. Racket high, player looking over shoulder, shoulders turned past perpendicular to the baseline, second hand still on racket - the initial position. What are the details of how the racket accelerates from there?

Roger Federer and Justine Henin Topspin backhands

YOUTUBE ACCOUNT CLOSED

Roger Federer backhands shot with slow motion

Roger Federer's topspin backhand 360 degree breakdown 2.0

Federer Wawrinka and more Top spin BH part I: The preparation

Federer, Wawrinka and more top spin BH part II: The Stroke phase

Richard Gasquet - Slow Motion Top Spin Backhands in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBRallEByc

 

[Injured Again]

I like using my slice to set up my topspin backhand. Sometimes my slice is able to get me a ball back with less on it. Against guys with a good slice it can turn into all slice rally.

You're able to hit a really penetrating slice that I can typically only do by accident. But you're right that a change in the way the ball bounces can make it hard for the opponent to time the ball cleanly.

I seem to notice that against guys with a good underspin backhand, the lower the ball gets the better relatively their slice is compared to mines.