2nd serve. It took months of going for it.

[TimeToPlaySets]

As I said in an old thread, I refused to dink my 2nd serves for the W.
I said I would go for my 2nd serve kicker until it started working.
I was prepared to DF every single serve point, if it came to that.
Played plenty of matches where I DF'ed 1-2 points a game.
No ****s given.

I now have the motion where the ball toss is overhead and I can swing as hard as I can.
My DF rate has plummeted. I get service winners off my 2nd serve.
This was a huge step forward, and the dink 2nd serve is forever gone.
I may go an entire set without a DF, while swinging 100% at my 2nd serve.

I now have a reliable 2nd serve kicker that can get me free points.
For a while there, I was playing matches serving all 2nd serves.
When it's on, I then feel free to go for my flat 1st serve, which adds a whole dimension to my serve game.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

As I said in an old thread, I refused to dink my 2nd serves for the W.
I said I would go for my 2nd serve kicker until it started working.
I was prepared to DF every single serve point, if it came to that.
Played plenty of matches where I DF'ed 1-2 points a game.
No ****s given.

I now have the motion where the ball toss is overhead and I can swing as hard as I can.
My DF rate has plummeted. I get service winners off my 2nd serve.
This was a huge step forward, and the dink 2nd serve is forever gone.
I may go an entire set without a DF, while swinging 100% at my 2nd serve.

I now have a reliable 2nd serve kicker that can get me free points.
For a while there, I was playing matches serving all 2nd serves.
When it's on, I then feel free to go for my flat 1st serve, which adds a whole dimension to my serve game.

Well done! Sounds like you are well on the way to your goal. Maybe try some S&V to finish off some of those weaker returns.

 

[golden chicken]

Funny thing is, you have to be more confident hitting a kick serve than hitting a flat serve because you need racket head speed to get the topspin you need. It all goes wrong when people get tentative and slow their swing down, instead of speeding it up.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Good point. My second serve generates a lot of slice returns and weak returns. I can get caught napping on the base line and get drop shotted...

. I've just now started experimenting with following the serve in, when I know there is a lot of spin.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Funny thing is, you have to be more confident hitting a kick serve than hitting a flat serve because you need racket head speed to get the topspin you need. It all goes wrong when people get tentative and slow their swing down, instead of speeding it up.

Exactly. I now swing very hard at my 2nd...and sometimes even grunt. It feels great to finally get here. It's also awesome to just use it as a first serve, knowing there are two chances. This makes DF rate plummet.

When second is locked in, I start going for flat first serves knowing I'll get the second in. My flat deserves its own thread, as that is also taken a huge step forward.

 

[Christian Olsson]

Good work! Did that too! Never looked back!

 

[mad dog1]

The most burning question that I have is which direction is your left leg kicking out to now?

 

[Chadillac]

As I said in an old thread, I refused to dink my 2nd serves for the W.
I said I would go for my 2nd serve kicker until it started working.
I was prepared to DF every single serve point, if it came to that.
Played plenty of matches where I DF'ed 1-2 points a game.
No ****s given.

I now have the motion where the ball toss is overhead and I can swing as hard as I can.
My DF rate has plummeted. I get service winners off my 2nd serve.
This was a huge step forward, and the dink 2nd serve is forever gone.
I may go an entire set without a DF, while swinging 100% at my 2nd serve.

I now have a reliable 2nd serve kicker that can get me free points.
For a while there, I was playing matches serving all 2nd serves.
When it's on, I then feel free to go for my flat 1st serve, which adds a whole dimension to my serve game.

Lefty kick is annoying.

Kicker gives you more time to coil up on the massive fh off their naturally weak return (its backwards for most).

Great progression, your now seeing that slowing things down isnt always bad. You can gain time for the next

Confidence on your 2nd serve is a great thing, you can worry about something else now

 

[bitcoinoperated]

Nice work mate. This is the only path to a decent 2nd serve I think.

Longer term you will probably end up with less errors than the dink second too as slowing your swing down relying on touch while under pressure is lower percentage than being able to slug a serve in 4ft over the net the with spin bringing it in.

 

[QiZ]

Video...?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[beltsman]

As I said in an old thread, I refused to dink my 2nd serves for the W.
I said I would go for my 2nd serve kicker until it started working.
I was prepared to DF every single serve point, if it came to that.
Played plenty of matches where I DF'ed 1-2 points a game.
No ****s given.

I now have the motion where the ball toss is overhead and I can swing as hard as I can.
My DF rate has plummeted. I get service winners off my 2nd serve.
This was a huge step forward, and the dink 2nd serve is forever gone.
I may go an entire set without a DF, while swinging 100% at my 2nd serve.

I now have a reliable 2nd serve kicker that can get me free points.
For a while there, I was playing matches serving all 2nd serves.
When it's on, I then feel free to go for my flat 1st serve, which adds a whole dimension to my serve game.

Exactly how long did it take?

 

[Morch Us]

I know one step at a time. But being a lefty, I wonder why you have not experimented your slice serves till now? Sure kick serves are a must to have, but when the opponents try to adjust their return position, for a lefty serve, having both slice and topspin serves are huge advantage. I would really advice you to develop a sharp slice as your first serve, and use flat only as a surprice, to make use of your naturaly lefty advantage.

When second is locked in, I start going for flat first serves knowing I'll get the second in.

Lefty kick is annoying.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Exactly how long did it take?

I took a few months.
I also practiced serves with a hopper about 15-20 times.

It's all about the toss.
At first, it was more of a slice, and it would sail long.
Eventually, I really got the upward motion feeling.
Eventually, I got the toss more over my head, and a real upwards swing that makes the ball drop.
Now, I can literally swing as hard as I can, and the ball will drop in.
Sometimes, it still goes into the net, when there is too much spin, and not enough thrust.
When it goes long, it means I did not have it overhead, and I sliced it, and didn't topkick it. (wrong toss)

I also had to put more leg bend and jump to get more net clearance.
Many serves were hitting the top of the tape.
I have no idea how people make it do a big arc.
Mine is much more linear that zips downwards.

I know one step at a time. But being a lefty, I wonder why you have not experimented your slice serves till now? Sure kick serves are a must to have, but when the opponents try to adjust their return position, for a lefty serve, having both slice and topspin serves are huge advantage. I would really advice you to develop a sharp slice as your first serve, and use flat only as a surprice, to make use of your naturaly lefty advantage.

My slice serve is not as consistent.
My goal was to reduce DF's, so I went with topkick.
I sometimes mix in slice, but it's not match ready yet.

Flat is the natural outcome of trying to toss into the court.
Typically, the ball is overhead (12pm), but 2 feet inside the court.
This turns out to be a flat serve towards the middle.

For slice, I have to toss the ball way out wide (1pm or 2pm for a righty)
But, I also need the toss out in front (lands in court)
What this does is make the contact point lower, unless I really explode off my legs to get same contact height.
That means even more of a leg bend. That I have to work on more.
Otherwise, the slice serve goes into the net.
Slice serve also goes long fairly often.
It seems like a lower percentage serve compared to topkick.

 

[FiReFTW]

@TimeToPlaySets

I am doing the same, I refuse to hit it slowly and dink it over (I know it would be a 99% shot but it wouldn't really get me anywhere). So I started really hitting fast on my 2nd serve, and throwing it behind my head.
I also hit most shots like this, trying kick serve, like 50% of my 1st serves aswell, to really really practice it.
I know its going to take alot of time, but hopefully il get there like you.
Because my serve is my biggest liability, my groundstrokes are starting to get quite decent and starting to develop some weapons, but my serve is killing me sometimes making me lose the match, since I can't hold my serve when I double fault 3 times in a service match.
Sometimes when I hit it cleanly and well I get a nice arc over the net and the ball bounces high and also kicks to the other side, but sometimes I misshit or misstime it and either brush too much and too less penetration and the ball flies into the net, or the opposite and it flies further.. need to get the timing and contact really right and engrain it somehow in my motion, aswell as the toss.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I have no idea how people make it do a big arc.
Mine is much more linear that zips downwards.

Instead of aiming for the service box, set up a vertical target [say, a couple of feet higher than where your serve is going now]. Aim for that target. Assuming your serves are now going long, work on faster racquet head speed and visualize hitting up on the ball rather than through it. Once your serves start going in again, raise the target. Rinse and repeat until you are achieving the height you want.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

@TimeToPlaySets

I am doing the same, I refuse to hit it slowly and dink it over (I know it would be a 99% shot but it wouldn't really get me anywhere). So I started really hitting fast on my 2nd serve, and throwing it behind my head.
I also hit most shots like this, trying kick serve, like 50% of my 1st serves aswell, to really really practice it.
I know its going to take alot of time, but hopefully il get there like you.
Because my serve is my biggest liability, my groundstrokes are starting to get quite decent and starting to develop some weapons, but my serve is killing me sometimes making me lose the match, since I can't hold my serve when I double fault 3 times in a service match.
Sometimes when I hit it cleanly and well I get a nice arc over the net and the ball bounces high and also kicks to the other side, but sometimes I misshit or misstime it and either brush too much and too less penetration and the ball flies into the net, or the opposite and it flies further.. need to get the timing and contact really right and engrain it somehow in my motion, aswell as the toss.

The motion is best developed with a practice Hopper, not during a match. Go as many days in a row. That's when you can try things like varying your grip and toss.

Practice the serve with a Hopper so you don't give a damn if it good in or out. That gives you the freedom to play around and find your swing and take chances.

You can never learn this stuff online. You need to feel it for yourself. When you have it right, for your given ability, you'll know it, since you will wish there was someone on the other side of the net receiving your newfound brilliance.
Keep expectations in check. Just go for the next step up.

 

[mcs1970]

You can never learn this stuff online. You need to feel it for yourself. When you got it right, you'll know it..

What many have been telling you for a long time No coach can teach you this. Have to get the hopper out and put in the work and figure out things yourself, as you've done. Congrats on the 2nd serve. Your serve always seemed like the strongest part of your game anyway even when you were needlessly getting exasperated over it and messing with irrelevant things like which leg to kick out. Even your older videos showed a natural power on your serve. Don't take that for granted. That's a gift. Don't lose that power part as you keep working on the spinny 2nd serves too.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Without a coach, you'll forever stay at unconscious incompetence.

Once I was told where to toss the ball, how much more to bend legs, and to jump higher, then I just had to practice it on my own.

 

[mcs1970]

Without a coach, you'll forever stay at unconscious incompetence.

Once I was told where to toss the ball, how much more to bend legs, and to jump higher, then I just had to practice it on my own.

I learned my 2nd serve on my own...completely...whether you choose to believe it or not. I play against a guy who used to be a 5.0, and is very aggressive. Very rarely does he get free points off my serve nowadays. So you might want to rethink that first line of yours.

At the same time, inspired by your videos, I've put my ego aside and at 47 have gone back to a coach to work on a 2h backhand, because I'm tired of slicing all the time, and leaving points/games on the table, especially after doing a lot of hard work to move my better opponent wide only to not finish the point off.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Glad to hear. Assuming you can afford it, I doubt you will regret spending money to improve at a skill.

Before all this, I thought I had a decent 2HBH.
I had enough topspin to be able to take a nice whack at the ball.

Turned out, I was arming the ball.
So, it felt like I was crushing the ball, but I wasn't.

It took a lot of hours to groove a new BH
My coaches biggest focus training me to use my non-dom arm to drive the BH. (So, you're doing a FH with that non-dom arm)
He also coached me to entirely change the trajectory of my BH.
I now hit BH high and deep, and with more topspin.
My BH is not my weapon. My FH is.
No more "winnners" that are slapped into the net.
When the ball is very short, I have practiced creating space and waiting in order to hit the BH DTL approach/winner.
But, for the most part, my BH is simply used to send back a deep high ball that will generate a slower ball that I can run around to my FH and take back dictate the point.

 

[atp2015]

Good point. My second serve generates a lot of slice returns and weak returns. I can get caught napping on the base line and get drop shotted...

. I've just now started experimenting with following the serve in, when I know there is a lot of spin.

Tennis is funny and weird- improve serve and shots, and you will lose points because of weak replies which just get over the net.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

That does not bother me.
For every 5 errors, there may be 1 miscue that wins them the point.
They can have that if I can keep having the 5.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Lefty kick is annoying.

Kicker gives you more time to coil up on the massive fh off their naturally weak return (its backwards for most).

Great progression, your now seeing that slowing things down isnt always bad. You can gain time for the next

Confidence on your 2nd serve is a great thing, you can worry about something else now

lol, lefty everything is terrible!!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Correction. Flat serve toss is at 1pm (for righty)
I can tell when I've nailed the flat serve toss, since there is zero spin on the ball.
It is a rocket that flies pin straight.

At my level, I think the primary leverage for the flat serve is to get one in.
Once you do, you've now confused the opponent on where to stand for ROS.
Just get ONE flat serve bomb in, and he'll be standing too far back for the rest of the match.
I can then serve 2nd's all day long without being attacked.
If my 2nd is in the groove, and I know they will go in, then I will go for more flat 1sts.
They may not be smart plays, but they have intimidation factor, and make you get invited back to play, since you're "good"

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

Op, do you have any vids of your serve progress? Would be interesting to see. You are caning along in progress. I thought you'd gone insane at one point, but you are showing up everyone who laughed at you. Kudos.

The first lightbulb moment i had when learning to serve was to toss a foot or so inside the court, and to the right. 1 or 2 o'clock. It allows your hitting arm to flow through right onto the ball. I kinda know before I've even hit the ball sometimes that it is going to be an ace from where the toss is in the air.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I thought you'd gone insane at one point, but you are showing up everyone who laughed at you. Kudos.

lol, that's why i've become a ttps fan.

he's actually doing the work (time, money, boring solo practice time on the wall/serving/self feeds) that most folks who are stuck at 3.5,... won't do.

most folks just want to hit back and forth from the center hash, for 10min, then start playing sets.... without spending the time to make meaningful adjustments (because they don't want to mess up their game in the short term)

 

[atp2015]

I always thought ttps was right on the money when he said it's not possible to make meaningful improvement without coaching. It's my experience as well. Coaching and other 'supervised' drills are the only efficient way to improve.
I have heard so many people say I have done it myself and i hit with 5.0 players etc.
Until I see one in my own eyes, I'm not buying it. I have not come across a single player who has improved to 4.0 and beyond by themselves. Some hacks do exist, but mostly win a few matches here and there by benefiting from players who are in a rush to finish matches early.

 

[thomas daniels]

As I said in an old thread, I refused to dink my 2nd serves for the W.
I said I would go for my 2nd serve kicker until it started working.
I was prepared to DF every single serve point, if it came to that.
Played plenty of matches where I DF'ed 1-2 points a game.
No ****s given.

I now have the motion where the ball toss is overhead and I can swing as hard as I can.
My DF rate has plummeted. I get service winners off my 2nd serve.
This was a huge step forward, and the dink 2nd serve is forever gone.
I may go an entire set without a DF, while swinging 100% at my 2nd serve.

I now have a reliable 2nd serve kicker that can get me free points.
For a while there, I was playing matches serving all 2nd serves.
When it's on, I then feel free to go for my flat 1st serve, which adds a whole dimension to my serve game.

Sounds good, now try to start moving it around too, great work and congrats my friend!!

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

lol, that's why i've become a ttps fan.

he's actually doing the work (time, money, boring solo practice time on the wall/serving/self feeds) that most folks who are stuck at 3.5,... won't do.

most folks just want to hit back and forth from the center hash, for 10min, then start playing sets.... without spending the time to make meaningful adjustments (because they don't want to mess up their game in the short term)

yep, i used to spend an hour or more everyday or two practicing serves. Bought a hopper and a hundred balls and I'd just serve over and over. I'd film myself then compare to youtube vids to fine tune. Coaching is expensive but worth every cent imo too.

The wall is awesome and i spent many long hours hitting against it, but now i seem to get alot from playing sets against really good players. I can learn more and grow more in one 0-6 drubbing against a 5.0 than i can in weeks of mindless rallying with weekend warriors. The pressure of high level matchplay is illuminatingand instantly exposes flaws in movement/anticipation/shot selection/nerves etc

 

[mcs1970]

lol, that's why i've become a ttps fan.

he's actually doing the work (time, money, boring solo practice time on the wall/serving/self feeds) that most folks who are stuck at 3.5,... won't do.

most folks just want to hit back and forth from the center hash, for 10min, then start playing sets.... without spending the time to make meaningful adjustments (because they don't want to mess up their game in the short term)

nyta... TTPS never got criticized for putting the work in. He got criticized because of his continuous bashing of others, and also, just like what you are stating above, his feeling that he was one of the few who cared about improving his game. Why do you feel that way? There are always people who want to move ahead and didn't/don't need TTPS' admonishments to put in that work. Then there are people who are playing for other reasons and don't need to be shamed about their levels or how they utilize the precious time they get to be on the court in the way that makes the most sense for them. Some of us are lucky to have a lot of time to put on the court. Others are not. I had a lot of time in my 20s to play racquetball. Then there was a good period in my 30s where with 2 kids my best chance of exercise was to just get on the treadmill while most of my free time was around their lives. If I had taken up Tennis then, I'd have had very little time to devote to drills. So would it have been wrong for me to play matches if that's what I wanted to do with the little time I got to be on the court?

Plus TTPS used to be dismissive of any advice or conceding that just because something might not have come easily for him, others were not lying when they said it did for them. TTPS has mellowed down a lot now and you can see everyone cheering for him.

 

[mad dog1]

nyta... TTPS never got criticized for putting the work in. He got criticized because of his continuous bashing of others, and also, just like what you are stating above, his feeling that he was one of the few who cared about improving his game. Why do you feel that way? There are always people who want to move ahead and didn't/don't need TTPS' admonishments to put in that work. Then there are people who are playing for other reasons and don't need to be shamed about their levels or how they utilize the precious time they get to be on the court in the way that makes the most sense for them. Some of us are lucky to have a lot of time to put on the court. Others are not. I had a lot of time in my 20s to play racquetball. Then there was a good period in my 30s where with 2 kids my best chance of exercise was to just get on the treadmill while most of my free time was around their lives. If I had taken up Tennis then, I'd have had very little time to devote to drills. So would it have been wrong for me to play matches if that's what I wanted to do with the little time I got to be on the court?

Plus TTPS used to be dismissive of any advice or conceding that just because something might not have come easily for him, others were not lying when they said it did for them. TTPS has mellowed down a lot now and you can see everyone cheering for him.

Spot on!!!

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

nyta... TTPS never got criticized for putting the work in. He got criticized because of his continuous bashing of others, and also, just like what you are stating above, his feeling that he was one of the few who cared about improving his game. Why do you feel that way? There are always people who want to move ahead and didn't/don't need TTPS' admonishments to put in that work. Then there are people who are playing for other reasons and don't need to be shamed about their levels or how they utilize the precious time they get to be on the court in the way that makes the most sense for them.

Plus TTPS used to be dismissive of any advice or conceding that just because something might not have come easily for him, others were not lying when they said it did for them. TTPS has mellowed down a lot now and you can see everyone cheering for him.

I'm not a fan of TTPS' forum personality and initially I almost put him on my ignore list because he was so critical and dismissive of everyone, even those who were trying to help.

I am a fan of his work ethic, dedication, and perseverance. While others let his critical responses affect their opinions and they said he would never make it past 3.0, I felt he had the chops to make it to his goal of 4.0. Others on the forum can be inspired if they make it past the prima facie exterior.

 

[mcs1970]

I'm not a fan of TTPS' forum personality and initially I almost put him on my ignore list because he was so critical and dismissive of everyone, even those who were trying to help.

I am a fan of his work ethic, dedication, and perseverance. While others let his critical responses affect their opinions and they said he would never make it past 3.0, I felt he had the chops to make it to his goal of 4.0. Others on the forum can be inspired if they make it past the prima facie exterior.

In a country where obesity and lack of exercise is a big issue, any sort of physical activity should be encouraged without having to shame the folks doing so, on how they'll never improve beyond a certain level if they don't do this or that.

 

[mad dog1]

...but you are showing up everyone who laughed at you. Kudos...

most folks never laughed at ttps' tennis ability. they scoffed at his **** poor attitude.

there was this absolutely absurd thread that ttps started about how hitting with more topspin causes the ball to hit the bottom of the net. well meaning forum members truly trying to help him told him that the amount of topspin was not the reason for the ball hitting the bottom of the net but rather that it was the ball trajectory that was the reason. so if the ball was running into the net, aim higher. he told everyone that they had zero clue about tennis and didn't know what they were talking about.

 

[mad dog1]

lol, that's why i've become a ttps fan.

he's actually doing the work (time, money, boring solo practice time on the wall/serving/self feeds) that most folks who are stuck at 3.5,... won't do.

most folks just want to hit back and forth from the center hash, for 10min, then start playing sets.... without spending the time to make meaningful adjustments (because they don't want to mess up their game in the short term)

ttps' dedication, determination and willingness to put in the work to improve? big fan. always have been.

ttps' derisive, belligerent, abusive attitude towards those genuinely offering good applicable advice to help him? not a fan of. have you conveniently forgotten how he responded to those trying to help him in his threads? there are too many, but here are just a few examples to refresh your memory...asking how to achieve a straight vertical tossing arm in the trophy position? how to get the rear leg to kick back on the serve? more topspin just makes the ball hit the net?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

most folks never laughed at ttps' tennis ability. they scoffed at his **** poor attitude.

There were several who did make snide remarks about TTPS, calling him a spaz and a 2.5 player. This was likely in response to TTPS attacking them, not an objective measure of his skills. But hey, human nature is like that.

By incremental progress, TTPS is improving both his tennis and awareness of things outside the self, although probably too little, too late for some.

 

[mad dog1]

There were several who did make snide remarks about TTPS, calling him a spaz and a 2.5 player. This was likely in response to TTPS attacking them, not an objective measure of his skills. But hey, human nature is like that.

By incremental progress, TTPS is improving both his tennis and awareness of things outside the self, although probably too little, too late for some.

yes, there were some who did make snide remarks which is why i said most.

idk but for starters, an apology or even a simple acknowledgement from ttps that his insulting behavior was uncalled might help. just an idea. i'm sure ttps will think it's absurd.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

yes, there were some who did make snide remarks which is why i said most.

idk but for starters, an apology or even a simple acknowledgement from ttps that his insulting behavior was uncalled might help. just an idea. i'm sure ttps will think it's absurd.

I doubt one will be forthcoming; in his own words, he doesn't suffer fools gladly [apparently a fool is anyone who disagrees with him]. I think he believes that he's not insulting but just "telling it like it is".

 

[mad dog1]

I doubt one will be forthcoming; in his own words, he doesn't suffer fools gladly [apparently a fool is anyone who disagrees with him]. I think he believes that he's not insulting but just "telling it like it is".

I'm not expecting one. Maybe it's timetolearnsomesocialskills!

 

[AllCourtHeathen]

most folks never laughed at ttps' tennis ability. they <snip>

Jeezuz, last 10 posts are whining about the bloke's personality. Who cares, drop it. It's not the point of the thread. It was turning into a good thread about persevering, and about what worked/what didn't etc, don't derail it.
If you don't like him that much, just put him on ignore. That's what it's there for.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

ttps' dedication, determination and willingness to put in the work to improve? big fan. always have been.

ttps' derisive, belligerent, abusive attitude towards those genuinely offering good applicable advice to help him? not a fan of. have you conveniently forgotten how he responded to those trying to help him in his threads? there are too many, but here are just a few examples to refresh your memory...asking how to achieve a straight vertical tossing arm in the trophy position? how to get the rear leg to kick back on the serve? more topspin just makes the ball hit the net?

agree with most...

to me those questions/discoveries were hilarious, like a child taking a tip literally and in the wrong context

eg
"more topspin makes the ball hit the net"... from a beginner standpoint, it does!! (until they make the adjustment to get under).
was teaching a kid topspin yesterday, asked to close the face, and the next 10 balls hit the ground before the net! so technically for those 10 or so shots, i actually made the kid worst

the split step thread,.. ie makes you worst... it made me worse when i was learning too.

etc,...

 

[Deleted member 23235]

nyta... TTPS never got criticized for putting the work in. He got criticized because of his continuous bashing of others, and also, just like what you are stating above, his feeling that he was one of the few who cared about improving his game. Why do you feel that way? There are always people who want to move ahead and didn't/don't need TTPS' admonishments to put in that work. Then there are people who are playing for other reasons and don't need to be shamed about their levels or how they utilize the precious time they get to be on the court in the way that makes the most sense for them. Some of us are lucky to have a lot of time to put on the court. Others are not. I had a lot of time in my 20s to play racquetball. Then there was a good period in my 30s where with 2 kids my best chance of exercise was to just get on the treadmill while most of my free time was around their lives. If I had taken up Tennis then, I'd have had very little time to devote to drills. So would it have been wrong for me to play matches if that's what I wanted to do with the little time I got to be on the court?

Plus TTPS used to be dismissive of any advice or conceding that just because something might not have come easily for him, others were not lying when they said it did for them. TTPS has mellowed down a lot now and you can see everyone cheering for him.

yeah the admonishments were over the top.. no need to put a man down in their stage of development....

[edit] but we all know that there are alot of folks in life that aren't putting to in the time/work/resources, but are still willing to dispense tips like an expert... it's hard to bite my tongue sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I'm not a fan of TTPS' forum personality and initially I almost put him on my ignore list because he was so critical and dismissive of everyone, even those who were trying to help.

I am a fan of his work ethic, dedication, and perseverance. While others let his critical responses affect their opinions and they said he would never make it past 3.0, I felt he had the chops to make it to his goal of 4.0. Others on the forum can be inspired if they make it past the prima facie exterior.

to me, his dismissive comments were a result of folks putting him down (in the beginning), laughing at his outrageous comments (ie topspin makes the ball hit the net),... or saying he will never get past 3.0 with his current mental model of tennis.

but yeah i agree with you, and he's definitely on his way to 4.0.

[edit] IMO the dialog between ttps and naysayers, remind me of the conversations/ridicule i got when i was trying to lose weight. i'd go out with "buddies", and let's say i order a salad or decide not to drink... i'd get harrassed... basically, "c'mon dude, no way you're gonna change, so stop pretending and drink a beer (ie. revel in this vice with me)"

50lbs+ later, i've generally limited hanging out with my "buddies", in lieu of other pursuits... tennis, martial arts, running, etc... i am pretty lame at the bar though, but at least i'll be your dd

 

[Deleted member 23235]

most folks never laughed at ttps' tennis ability. they scoffed at his **** poor attitude.

there was this absolutely absurd thread that ttps started about how hitting with more topspin causes the ball to hit the bottom of the net. well meaning forum members truly trying to help him told him that the amount of topspin was not the reason for the ball hitting the bottom of the net but rather that it was the ball trajectory that was the reason. so if the ball was running into the net, aim higher. he told everyone that they had zero clue about tennis and didn't know what they were talking about.

yeah the "zero clue" comments were uncalled for, but kinda funny at the same time (ie like convincing a flat earther that the world is round)

 

[atp2015]

yeah the "zero clue" comments were uncalled for, but kinda funny at the same time (ie like convincing a flat earther that the world is round)

To me those comments were "figuratively speaking " style of communication.
The forum persona was one who was not afraid to speak his mind or put out his thoughts (some not fully formed) out there.
But his honesty/integrity was there for everyone to see.
Sweeping generalization put many people off i think but everyone is another guy with his/her opinion on a subject. Take it for what it is worth.