2nd Serve: Kick and Underhand

[NotAtTheNet]

As most of you know, my service is not my forte. In fact that was something my coach never really showed me how to do when I was a kid growing up. My 1st serve is a flat banger, I basically go for broke with power and I can usually land it about 40% of the time with that mentality. I have no 2nd serve and i'm embarrased to even call "it" a serve; I would refer to as a "Dink" serve. I know I should have a kick serve as a 2nd serve, but saying is easier than doing. I've been spending about an hour a day for a couple weeks working on it and thanks to Fuzzy Yellow Balls and some related threads on this forum, I'm starting to get the hang of it. I can land it in about 60-70% of the time now. It not great but its a start. My question is at what point do I begin to incorporate it as my 2nd serve. Crunching some numbers, at this current point with:

a 40% 1st serve and a 60% (worst case scenario) 2nd serve, I would be double faulting 24% of the time.

Assuming with due diligence I can get my 1st serve to about 50% and my kick serve into the 70% range that would yield only a 15% double fault %

...or should I wait until I hit a 60% 1st serve and a 80% 2nd serve for an 8% double fault %?

At what point should I be moving toward the kick serve as a 2nd serve? I understand most people will spout off things like "till your 2nd serve is 100%" or something but I'm a tad more realistic. I mean assuming I serving 5 times in a game (6-4 or 4-6) and each game has a mean of 7 points per game for a total of 35 serves in a set. with a:

double faulting 15%, I'd DF ~ 5 times in a set
double faulting 8%, I'd DF ~ 3 times in a set

The thought analysis is that if i'm serving 35 times in a set, should i give up 5 or 3 points automatically in order to have a better chance at winning the other 30-32 other serves (ie: not get crushed by throwing up a dink)?

Actually in the mean time I've toyed with the idea to do an underhanded topspin 2nd serve. I actually started doing these after seeing HR Kid's video of his drop ball forehands in his basement and I started doing the same on the courts to practice hitting against shots with no pace (which i sometimes have trouble with). I think that it would be a good replacement to my dink serve so my opponents don't crowd the service line and kill me on my 2nd serve.

These are just some thoughts and numbers I've crunched in my head since I get bored at work. Any comments and thoughts would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

 

[Spokewench]

Wow, your brain works way too hard for me. I just started playing tennis 1 year and 3 months ago. I am working on a topspin serve right now; and although it is not perfect; it is beginning to come together. When I am practicing with my team, doing drills, practicing on my own, I work on getting this serve. If I get beat or double fault some in these circumstances, I don't care since I can lose and it's okay cause in the long run, I'll only get better with this serve.

When I'm playing my USTA matches, I try the serve and when it becomes too problematic, i.e. too many double faults, I go back to my flat serve for a while and then back and forth. If I lose a match now, but I develop my serve, then I will win more matches in the future. It is all about improving for the long run for me.

spoke

 

[PimpMyGame]

Go for the kick serve. I try it, it doesn't kick too well 75% of the time but what does work for me is the service action. Ever since I started my DF % has dropped and I'm hitting my 1st serve with the confidence that I have a good backup if it doesn't go in.

 

[BullDogTennis]

i'm also working on my second serve kick, i can land a kick serve probably 90% of the time, but right now im working on getting more pace, movement, and more kick. i was advised for right now everytime i play a practice set or practicing serves to not hit my normal flat serve. because that way i'll have 2 chances to untill im COMPLETELY comfortable. and also i was told that working on my kick serve will help my flat serve becuase im working on my racket head speed a TON, and hitting the ball at the top of the rise

 

[Nellie]

Keep on working on the kick serve - in a short time, it will be up in the 90% range, meaning that you will double fault 1/2 times per set. If that still bothers you, hit the kicker on the first serve as well, and go to Double faults 1/2 per match.

 

[DarthCow]

Once you have that kick serve motion up to scratch (there are heaps of threads about it) make sure you practice them in match scenarios.
It helped me build a second serve from a dink.

 

[Nanshiki]

Practice nothing but serves for a few weeks and this will slowly stop becoming a problem. You can't just serve full power from the get go and expect them to go in 80% of the time on first serve.

Also, if you haven't learned a topspin serve yet, you're doing your second serve a great disservice. You're actually supposed to swing the racket just as fast on the second serve as on the first...just in a different direction to generate topsin.

 

[tbini87]

i think you should start using your kick serve right away, even if it costs you a few points here and there. the dink serve is worthless, and you should start putting your KS under pressure. you best choice right now is to probably use it as your first AND second serves. this will help up your % and get you the practice it needs. once it is solid go back to hitting your normal first serve. good luck.

 

[goober]

Forget the "flat banger"

Kick serve on first and second until you get it down. Don't worry about double faults. You should build your service game around the second serve, not the first. Once you are confident with your kick then you can start throwing a flat banger once in awhile.