4 guys in between:Ashe,Nastase,Kodes and Smith

[kiki]

In between the last front line of aussie legends that dominated the second half of the 60´s (Newcombe,Rosewall and Laver) and the three revolutionnary players that dominated the second half of the 70´s (Borg,Vilas and Connors) we had 4 very appealing abd different looking champs, who dominated the first half of the 70´s: Nastase, The exhuberant eastern european, Kodes, the silent eastern european, Ashe, the black american and Stan Smith, the blond american.

Nastase and ashe were extremely talented, while Kodes and Smith´s best weapon was their very solid menthal atittude.

I enjoyed them so much, but I fail at determine their ranking among themselves

Smith: 1 Masters, 1 WCT title, 1 USo, 1 W title.Lost a W final and 2 Masters F.Won 2 DC titles and lost another DC final

Nastase: 4 Masters and 1 Lost final.1 FO and 1 lost final.2 W finals.1 USO title and 2 Dc finals lost to Stan Smith ( some of those finals were worldwide events)

Kodes: 2 FO, 1 W.Lost 2 USO F and also lost a DC final

Ashe: won a DC title, 1 USO, 1 AO, 1 WCT and 1 Wimbly.Lost 1 USO F, 1 AO F, 1 Masters F as well as a WCT F

Stan also defeated Ashe at the 1973 WCT finals , in 4 sets

Seems like Smith gets the best head to head, Nastase dominated Ashe but failed vs Kodes and Kodes and Ashe looks like their h2h is about even.

In major play among them:

Smith beat Nastase at 2 DC, 1 W, 1 Masters but lost 2 Masters finals
Smith beat Kodes at 1 USO F, a W SF but lost to him at a USO SF
Kodes beat Ashe at a FO sf, Nastase at a FO F
Nasty beat Smith at 2 Masters and Ashe at a USO F but was beaten by Kodes at a FO F and by Stan at a W F, a Masters F and those 2 DC F

It is really tough to set up a ranking amongs them, isn´t it? except Kodes, all won Forest Hills, except Nastase all won Wimbledon.Kodes never won an indoor major and Smith and Ashe never won a great cc event...

What´s your opinion?

 

[urban]

Ashe won 3 DC titles, 68, 69, 70, Smith won as singles player 69,71 and 72, and as doubles player 5 times 68-72. As players i would rank Nastase, Ashe, Smith and Kodes, as champions Ashe, Smith, Nastase and Kodes.

 

[kiki]

It is very tight.Kodes beat Smith at the 73 USO semis and had beaten Ashe and Nastase at the FO.

He won a Wimbledon title that seemed promised to Nastase.

He also won Madrid in 75 and Barcelona in 72...

any order could be worthy...

 

[kiki]

Kodes lost two IO finals back when this title was considered close to a slam.Laver and Orantes proved too good for him.

Nastase won the 1973 IO, and I think he lost the 1970 F.

Ashe and Smith never got beyond the quarters either at Paris or at Rome.

 

[BobbyOne]

In between the last front line of aussie legends that dominated the second half of the 60´s (Newcombe,Rosewall and Laver) and the three revolutionnary players that dominated the second half of the 70´s (Borg,Vilas and Connors) we had 4 very appealing abd different looking champs, who dominated the first half of the 70´s: Nastase, The exhuberant eastern european, Kodes, the silent eastern european, Ashe, the black american and Stan Smith, the blond american.

Nastase and ashe were extremely talented, while Kodes and Smith´s best weapon was their very solid menthal atittude.

I enjoyed them so much, but I fail at determine their ranking among themselves

Smith: 1 Masters, 1 WCT title, 1 USo, 1 W title.Lost a W final and 2 Masters F.Won 2 DC titles and lost another DC final

Nastase: 4 Masters and 1 Lost final.1 FO and 1 lost final.2 W finals.1 USO title and 2 Dc finals lost to Stan Smith ( some of those finals were worldwide events)

Kodes: 2 FO, 1 W.Lost 2 USO F and also lost a DC final

Ashe: won a DC title, 1 USO, 1 AO, 1 WCT and 1 Wimbly.Lost 1 USO F, 1 AO F, 1 Masters F as well as a WCT F

Stan also defeated Ashe at the 1973 WCT finals , in 4 sets

Seems like Smith gets the best head to head, Nastase dominated Ashe but failed vs Kodes and Kodes and Ashe looks like their h2h is about even.

In major play among them:

Smith beat Nastase at 2 DC, 1 W, 1 Masters but lost 2 Masters finals
Smith beat Kodes at 1 USO F, a W SF but lost to him at a USO SF
Kodes beat Ashe at a FO sf, Nastase at a FO F
Nasty beat Smith at 2 Masters and Ashe at a USO F but was beaten by Kodes at a FO F and by Stan at a W F, a Masters F and those 2 DC F

It is really tough to set up a ranking amongs them, isn´t it? except Kodes, all won Forest Hills, except Nastase all won Wimbledon.Kodes never won an indoor major and Smith and Ashe never won a great cc event...

What´s your opinion?

I would rather compare Smith, Nastase, Kodes and Orantes because they succeeded in open era while Ashe succeeded also in amateur era.

 

[kiki]

I would rather compare Smith, Nastase, Kodes and Orantes because they succeeded in open era while Ashe succeeded also in amateur era.

well, Ashe won the first open era US Championships beating Okker in the final.It was the 60´s, but still the Open era.

 

[Frank Silbermann]

This was also the last era before people began questioning the importance of correct stroking technique. (The success of Borg, Connors and Evert in the immediately following era led people to reconsider the two-handed backhand, despite its incorrectness.) So it might also be interesting to discuss which of these players had the most correct strokes.

I don't know how Jan Kodes hit the ball, but among the other three Stan Smith was the clear winner.

Newcomb used an inadequate grip on the backhand and as a result he only hit soft slice. (As commentators put it, for a top-ranked player he had a rather mediocre backhand.) That forced him into a serve-and-volley game -- as long as he was at the net, it didn't matter whether his backhand ground stroke was a weapon.

Ashe's forehand tended too close to the continental grip; as a result it was wristy and prone to errors. His backhand grip also was not fully eastern, but that was typical for the era. (At least teachers _taught_ the correct backhand grip, even if the pros didn't use it.)

Stan Smith began learning tennis at age 16 and had instruction from the beginning, so he did everything right. That's why the innovative Cybervision instructional video used Smith as the model for customers interested in improving their skills.

 

[BobbyOne]

well, Ashe won the first open era US Championships beating Okker in the final.It was the 60´s, but still the Open era.

kiki, Ashe had fine success also before open era, f.i. reaching the final of AO twice and losing only to Emerson.

 

[robow7]

So who in your opinion of the four stayed near the top the longest?

 

[kiki]

So who in your opinion of the four stayed near the top the longest?

Ashe was a top tenner as late as 79
Had a great indoor season in 78-79
The 3 others had good moments but hardly got in top 40
Smith was n1 in 72, Nastase in the first half of 73 and Ashe in 75 dominated most of season