A few random thoughts on collecting, forums, and philosophy

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
I really enjoy the hobby many of us share in studying, collecting, and even using classic and vintage tennis equipment. It's a form of time travel to a simpler time and a connection to the rich history of the sport we all feel so passionately about. I'm glad that from time to time I can offer what little information or experience I have; one of life's best pleasures is to be of helpful service to others.

I'm saddened when good information gets buried in the midst of opinion or ego battles on forums such as this; when the "noise to signal ratio" goes way out of whack. Online 'Hobby' forums are indeed a strange phenomenon, gathering communities of people with the same general interest from all over the globe and from every walk of life, and each with widely disparate experiences and opinions on the same general field of interest. And certainly the specific field of tennis gear is subject to much preference and opinion: one person's favourite racquet may certainly not appeal to another at all, in regards to colour, size, playability, weight, balance, brand status, pro endorsing it, pro not endorsing it, etc. Indeed, in some way forums to discuss tennis equipment might be as silly in concept as a forum to discuss toothpaste (an in all honesty, toothpaste ought to be a far more important part of our daily lives, shouldn't it?)

Let's all offer up to the community here an extra bit more decorum and forebearance. Facts can certainly be debated for truth and clarified - that certainly can be edifying to all who check in and read - but opinion and philosophy should be easily identified and respected as such. Let's keep this a friendly and collegial place, shall we?

Re: Collecting: As I get into what's considered Middle Age of my life, I've started simplifying out of sheer necessity: the more one has, the harder it is to take care of it or hang on to it. My personal collection of tennis racquets is down to those which I am actually using, and those which have historical value to me personally. I'm afraid I have concluded that while there are many others that are quite interesting to have and to look at, for me the usefulness of it as a consumer good is not there, and I have never really embraced tennis gear as art - just my preference. On the "Use It Versus Display It" issue, I check in personally as a use it or get rid of it guy. However, if a friend really wants to start a museum, I'd advise him or her to get one good "user" of a model in question, and one brand new one to keep for display. Having come from the world of collecing and restoring classic sports cars in the last decade (now THAT is a nutty community!), I've seen there is a certain value of preserving perfect specimens of these things in museums, so they can be studied as objets d' art and be archived for posterity; however, to see the car in question brought out on a race track and used in the context of its designed purpose brings much more enjoyment and amazement to many. Both schools of thought have their place. However, as I walked through the International Tennis Hall of Fame this year, enjoying the exhibits of tennis gear from the luminaries of the sport, I couldn't help that all of the equipment on display was used. Hardcore collectors call that "provenance:" the history behind the object. Certainly the ITHOF could have obtained and displayed one of the "deadstock," never used Adidas Lendl GTX Pros obtained from Bosworth, but one actually scuffed up during Lendl's 1984 Roland Garros final is a far more telling and interesting item. However, in the end, both are still only tennis racquets. Talk to a touring pro, and odds are he or she will be fairly nonchelant about the racquet, in the same way a carpenter might be about his tape measure, or a civil engineer might be about his computer. To me the best part of collecting older equipment is in the using of it, the sampling of it. On court it helps one understand how tennis used to be played (as constrained by the equipment of the time), and that magically creates a sympathy that reminds one of their place in the rich and long history of the game. It seems to me that modern equipment is "instant gratification" in this regard; it's tailored for modern trends and probably has little historical relevance, as though tennis was only invented in the mid-1990's. However, that's OK, and understandable - to take ownership of something long-running, every generation seems to have to assert that it does it better than any before it. Today's "Modern Game" with its modern equipment will be superceded by tomorrow's Modern Game with its modern equipment.. As Solomon (King, not Harrold) noted, "There is nothing new under the sun."

In the greater scheme of life, there are far more important things to worry oneself about, and this forum is a pleasant escape to a beloved hobby. So let's please keep it pleasant!

Thanks to one and all,

Your tennis friend
Retro.
 
Last edited:

jimbo333

Hall of Fame
Hi, you are recognised by me and others as one of most knowledgable posters here, along with Vsbabolat and others:)

Up until last week, I didn't think there was any need for a post like this. I was then mistaken for someone by one person and then seriously attacked by another. I have been here 6 months and nothing like this has happened to me before and I'm shocked. I have now found about ignore, which I am using, and I will try to ensure this never happens to me again:)

I apologise if it has got in the way for anybody, but I was defending myself.

I really enjoy collecting tennis racquets, and this forum until this week has always been really enjoyable. The information I have found out, has been amazing and I am continually impressed by what people know.

I am looking forward to posting photos of my racquets on here soon:)
 
Last edited:

anirut

Legend
Nice one, Retro.

I also run a Thai/English tennis forum and, luckily, our members are very decent. Yuth, the guy who frequents this classic-racket forum, is also a member of my forum.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Agree completely! :)

However, there is nothing wrong with collectors also collecting unused racquets and enjoying them in their pristine state. Perhaps, they will be used at a later time and perhaps not.

We all collect for different reasons and that should be respected by others, as well.
 
Last edited:

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
However, there is nothing wrong with collectors also collecting unused racquets and enjoying them in their pristine state. Perhaps, they will be used at a later time and perhaps not.

We all collect for different reasons and that should be respected by others, as well.

Yes, I totally respect this collecting philosophy, even if it is not how I do it myself. My point, perhaps not very well made in the novel at the top of this page, is that we need all sorts in this hobby and each should be respected in full. I hope that's the environment we can achieve here.
 

schu47

Rookie
Retro,

I very much echo your sentiments, although I accept the idea of racquets as art if that's how people want to view it. Personally, I'd rather get out on the court and use mine.

Whereas you have acquired the wisdom of middle age -- or perhaps you possessed it all along -- I am past what most would think of as middle age. I believe the experiences of life bring perspective -- a virtue that some of our younger contributors don't seem to have achieved as of yet.

Fact is, there are very few absolutes, especially when it comes to something as inconsequential in the larger scheme of things as tennis racquet collecting.
It shouldn't be about ego, but knowledge and enjoyment.

By the way, being the highly-educated person I am, I knew almost right away you weren't quoting Harrold Solomon in your post -- I believe his only memorable quote was, "Are you nuts? That didn't hit the line!"

To continue that line of thought, let me quote Blake (William, not James): "Men are admitted into Heaven not because they have curbed & govern'd their Passions or have No Passions, but because they have Cultivated their Understandings."

Time for a little understanding on these pages. Thanks for starting the discussion. Myself, I'm off with a bag full of tennis racquets for a family vacation. That's even more fun than doing this.
 

Tennis Man

Hall of Fame
I really enjoy the hobby many of us share in studying, collecting, and even using classic and vintage tennis equipment. It's a form of time travel to a simpler time and a connection to the rich history of the sport we all feel so passionately about. I'm glad that from time to time I can offer what little information or experience I have; one of life's best pleasures is to be of helpful service to others.

I'm saddened when good information gets buried in the midst of opinion or ego battles on forums such as this; when the "noise to signal ratio" goes way out of whack. Online 'Hobby' forums are indeed a strange phenomenon, gathering communities of people with the same general interest from all over the globe and from every walk of life, and each with widely disparate experiences and opinions on the same general field of interest. And certainly the specific field of tennis gear is subject to much preference and opinion: one person's favourite racquet may certainly not appeal to another at all, in regards to colour, size, playability, weight, balance, brand status, pro endorsing it, pro not endorsing it, etc. Indeed, in some way forums to discuss tennis equipment might be as silly in concept as a forum to discuss toothpaste (an in all honesty, toothpaste ought to be a far more important part of our daily lives, shouldn't it?)

Let's all offer up to the community here an extra bit more decorum and forebearance. Facts can certainly be debated for truth and clarified - that certainly can be edifying to all who check in and read - but opinion and philosophy should be easily identified and respected as such. Let's keep this a friendly and collegial place, shall we?

Thank you, retro ... I was trying to emphasise the need to be relevant at least in this "Classic" forum but some people take it way too far ...
 
Last edited:

VGP

Legend
Talk to a touring pro, and odds are he or she will be fairly nonchelant about the racquet, in the same way a carpenter might be about his tape measure, or a civil engineer might be about his computer.

Nice post giving your opinion retro....

FWIW - Some pros do have a sense of sentimentality. Sampras said that he kept eight of his St. Vincent Pro Staffs. Also, during an Agassi Foundation charitable auction he had put up a Prince POG OS that he used to win his first pro tournament. The item was bought by his wife for $300k+ because she wanted it to stay in the family.....

As much as I would like a mint SV PS85, I just can't justify paying the premium price. Now, if I came across one at a garage sale or thrift shop, that's another story.......I've got a few used ones as it's my personal favorite frame.
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Nice post giving your opinion retro....

FWIW - Some pros do have a sense of sentimentality. Sampras said that he kept eight of his St. Vincent Pro Staffs. Also, during an Agassi Foundation charitable auction he had put up a Prince POG OS that he used to win his first pro tournament. The item was bought by his wife for $300k+ because she wanted it to stay in the family.....

If my wife wanted to spend $300k of our family's money on one racquet, I'd hope I could stop her :)

But yes, as you point out, there is a certain mystique or fascination with the racquet with some pros that borders on the mystical. And yes, they do care about their equipment quite a bit - their paychecks depend somewhat on that. But in most cases it's not as special as some on the outside would otherwise think.
 
Last edited:

pshulam

Hall of Fame
Nice post giving your opinion retro....

FWIW - Some pros do have a sense of sentimentality. Sampras said that he kept eight of his St. Vincent Pro Staffs. Also, during an Agassi Foundation charitable auction he had put up a Prince POG OS that he used to win his first pro tournament. The item was bought by his wife for $300k+ because she wanted it to stay in the family.....
Wow, she must be rich.

As much as I would like a mint SV PS85, I just can't justify paying the premium price. Now, if I came across one at a garage sale or thrift shop, that's another story.......I've got a few used ones as it's my personal favorite frame.
Even a 8/10 SV is over $200 - it's nuts. PC600 is another racket in demand.
 
Last edited:

pshulam

Hall of Fame
I agree the Retro -- it does not make sense to leave rackets in storage. They are meant for playing.
 

gpt

Professional
Hi, you are recognised by me and others as one of most knowledgable posters here, along with Vsbabolat and others:)

Up until last week, I didn't think there was any need for a post like this. I was then mistaken for someone by one person and then seriously attacked by another. I have been here 6 months and nothing like this has happened to me before and I'm shocked. I have now found about ignore, which I am using, and I will try to ensure this never happens to me again:)

I apologise if it has got in the way for anybody, but I was defending myself.

I really enjoy collecting tennis racquets, and this forum until this week has always been really enjoyable. The information I have found out, has been amazing and I am continually impressed by what people know.

I am looking forward to posting photos of my racquets on here soon:)

Jimbo, I always enjoy your contributions and have missed them recently. There are times when I get very disappointed with the attitudes and hostility displayed by some posters here. I hope most of them have the excuse of being very young.

I have been thinking about posting something similar to this one by retro but I wasn't certain on the best approach.

I am now glad I didn't try, because I could not have put as well as retrowagon has.

This is a great post retro and I thank you for it.

In the future when I get down about some of the attitudes I read here, I will read your post to remind me of the value of being on this forum.

Thanks to all the posters here who are willing to share their knowledge and insight.
 

gpt

Professional
I forgot, I am really looking forward to seeing those racquets Jimbo, so please do post those pics.
 

plasma

Banned
thanks for stating what we all felt in our hearts, Retro. A warm special place can feel really strange and shockingly uncomfortable after an argument. Hopefully this thread will help us all move on and make this cyber-lounge all warm an fuzzy again, (on a historic and informative level...of course)
 
Top