Any tips on watching the ball?

[Curious]

I guess "hit ball while looking at it" was the wrong way to say that since we don't see the contact. I meant my head/eyes are pointed at contact ... did not turn head before contact.

Don't worry. That's how I took it anyway. Your eyes are looking around the area where the collision is happening when the collision is happening. Excellent.

 

[Curious]

I suspect the silliness comes from trying to look at the exact impact or see the ball. I feel enlightened now that I need to look just around there when it is happening. I'm on a mission tonight.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I agree with SA about the visibility of the outgoing ball. We can't see an outgoing ball 5, 7 feet away, and we tend not to even bother to try. It's simply natural that we don't do what we can't. There's proof of this. How many times have you seen someone rip a close-distance ball at the net person and the ball bounces off the net person's frame to the ground below him but no one could clearly tell which side of the net the ball bounces. Argument follows.

Sometimes players frame or mishit a ball because they don't look at it closely enough but, imo, most of the times a miss is the result of an awkward, over-sped swing motion of the hitter. It's hardly about "too eager to see what your opponent is doing" life FireFTW suggests.

I notice over years I got a lot better at making good contact, but I don't recall anytime I practiced seeing the ball better or anything vision-related. If anything vision is getting worse as you age. I got better because I have improved my swing motion. An improved swing motion is a more shot tolerant/accommodating one, and I also improved my setup and timing for the strike. This led to a better shot without better "ball watching/seeing" or any vision "techniques".

Next hit, I will note where I start seeing the ball after contact.

Depending on the "improved stroke" ... you can actually introduce more contact challenges. A new longer stroke, and more low to high swing path does. But agree with the better prep and getting rushed part of mishits.

I have never worked on watching the ball, but I have to say this "1) bounce 2) ball visual snapshot 3) swing" thing improves my contact if I stick with it. Sometimes I'm hitting fine and forget about it. But it has worked every time if I'm having a bad stretch ... instantly hit cleaner. The backswing by bounce is muscle memory now ... but not there yet with snapshot.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I suspect the silliness comes from trying to look at the exact impact or see the ball. I feel enlightened now that I need to look just around there when it is happening. I'm on a mission tonight.

Have an awesome hit ... hope they are not killing another human sacrafice again on the ajacent court.

 

[user92626]

Next hit, I will note where I start seeing the ball after contact.

Depending on the "improved stroke" ... you can actually introduce more contact challenges. A new longer stroke, and more low to high swing path does. But agree with the better prep and getting rushed part of mishits.

I have never worked on watching the ball, but I have to say this "1) bounce 2) ball visual snapshot 3) swing" thing improves my contact if I stick with it. Sometimes I'm hitting fine and forget about it. But it has worked every time if I'm having a bad stretch ... instantly hit cleaner. The backswing by bounce is muscle memory now ... but not there yet with snapshot.

Have fun taking notes, but it's not practical and useful in tennis to be able to see clearly so close. In tennis we don't play in the length of the ping pong table. We play in much longer distances. For sure we can see and know relatively well where the ball lands. That's how we know if our shot is in or out.

"Depending on the "improved stroke" ... you can actually introduce more contact challenges."


Not sure what you mean. When I said "improve" I really meant "improved" as in I have shaped my FH stroke not only much easier to execute but I also could crank up the pace and placement. I'm a result based person. Not just feels-based. It wouldn't be an improvement if I found more challenges.


I don't know if there's a vision technique to work on. Ages ago @SystemicAnomaly posted something about cascading vision. I gave it good many tries but couldn't see any benefits or if I understood it correctly. I dropped it. Now I just look at the ball, track it but pay attention to other things that I said above. I rarely frame the ball.

 

[ByeByePoly]

.

Have fun taking notes, but it's not practical and useful in tennis to be able to see clearly so close. In tennis we don't play in the length of the ping pong table. We play in much longer distances. For sure we can see and know relatively well where the ball lands. That's how we know if our shot is in or out.

"Depending on the "improved stroke" ... you can actually introduce more contact challenges."


Not sure what you mean. When I said "improve" I really meant "improved" as in I have shaped my FH stroke not only much easier to execute but I also could crank up the pace and placement. I'm a result based person. Not just feels-based. It wouldn't be an improvement if I found more challenges.


I don't know if there's a vision technique to work on. Ages ago @SystemicAnomaly posted something about cascading vision. I gave it good many tries but couldn't see any benefits or if I understood it correctly. I dropped it. Now I just look at the ball, track it but pay attention to other things that I said above. I rarely frame the ball.

"Depending on the "improved stroke" ... you can actually introduce more contact challenges."

"Not sure what you mean. When I said "improve" I really meant "improved" as in I have shaped my FH stroke not only much easier to execute but I also could crank up the pace and placement. "

What I meant was increased challenge to hit the sweet spot. Short flat 30 mph stroke is much easier to hit on the screws than 70 mph longer backswing, full shoulder turn, big topspin.

I was going to check when I first see the ball after I hit it out of curiosity.

 

[Dou]

you don't watch the ball. you watch the contact zone.

that's how Fed keeps the head still...

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/saccade

I don't know if there's a vision technique to work on. Ages ago @SystemicAnomaly posted something about cascading vision. I gave it good many tries but couldn't see any benefits or if I understood it correctly. I dropped it. Now I just look at the ball, track it but pay attention to other things that I said above. I rarely frame the ball.

That was actually saccadic vision tracking, not cascading vision. Did the auto-correct git you? Check out the link at the top of this post. I referenced saccadic vision in post #194 on the previous page of this very thread.

Your eyes & brain are employing a series of saccades to read these words, jumping from one group of words to the next. We often employ catch-up saccades or jump-ahead saccades for other tasks in our lives.

We frequently use saccadic tracking in driving and in sports. We usually try to track a ball using our smooth pursuit system. In certain situations, where the eyes/brain cannot keep up a smooth pursuit, catch-up saccades might be employed to pick up the ball again.

Some will see the momentary saccadic yellow blur of the ball close to contact. Many will not. Sometimes I notice it (when I'm aware or looking for it), but often I do not notice it.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I usually don't have problem framing the ball. My strings are worn out at the center so I think I am making pretty clean contact.
My problem is typically more closing the face too much and hitting the net. Of course hitting the net can also happen if you lift head prematurely but I think in that case you will be contacting near the bottom edge. I am pretty sure I am contacting around the center.

 

[ByeByePoly]

www.wikipedia.org/wiki/saccade


That was actually saccadic vision tracking, not cascading vision. Did the auto-correct git you? Check out the link at the top of this post. I referenced saccadic vision in post #194 on the previous page of this very thread.

Your eyes & brain are employing a series of saccades to read these words, jumping from one group of words to the next. We often employ catch-up saccades or jump-ahead saccades for other tasks in our lives.

We frequently use saccadic tracking in driving and in sports. We usually try to track a ball using our smooth pursuit system. In certain situations, where the eyes/brain cannot keep up a smooth pursuit, catch-up saccades might be employed to pick up the ball again.

Some will see the momentary saccadic yellow blur of the ball close to contact. Many will not. Sometimes I notice it (when I'm aware or looking for it), but often I do not notice it.

Oh ... I am so using this on my friends.

"The reason your stroke sucks today is your cicada smooth tracking is off today."

 

[ByeByePoly]

I throw this in the mix as support/evidence that we "calculate" striking the ball around moment of forward swing rather than track the ball to contact. Pick up a racquet significantly lighter than the one you play with and see how you hit those first couple of balls. I did this the other day and shanked several ... which I don't generally do. It cleaned up pretty quickly ... my theory is the re-calculation happened quickly. Either that ... or my cicada tracking was temporarily fubared.

 

[Mikeplaystenniss]

Watch the ball from the moment it's leaving your opponents hand off the serve, etc.

Also you should be able to tell what string on your racquet the ball hit.

 

[ChimpChimp]

I noticed that I am always watching not the contact zone but 1 - 2 feet in front of it. And I know that when I tell myself to watch the contact zone, the hit is more accurate. Any cure?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I noticed that I am always watching not the contact zone but 1 - 2 feet in front of it. And I know that when I tell myself to watch the contact zone, the hit is more accurate. Any cure?

Fixing gaze 1-2 feet forward of the contact point worked very well for Andre Agassi. Perhaps that is not the issue. The problem might be that you are moving your head (and shoulder) too early. Don't want to lift the head & shoulder during or just prior to contact. Wait til your follow-thru is nearly complete before looking up to follow the ball or watch the opponent.

 

[ChimpChimp]

Fixing gaze 1-2 feet forward of the contact point worked very well for Andre Agassi. Perhaps that is not the issue. The problem might be that you are moving your head (and shoulder) too early. Don't want to lift the head & shoulder during or just prior to contact. Wait til your follow-thru is nearly complete before looking up to follow the ball or watch the opponent.

I didn't know that some pros do the same. But I am already waiting for the ball to leave my sight, and after a while, then I lift my head.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Fixing gaze 1-2 feet forward of the contact point worked very well for Andre Agassi. Perhaps that is not the issue. The problem might be that you are moving your head (and shoulder) too early. Don't want to lift the head & shoulder during or just prior to contact. Wait til your follow-thru is nearly complete before looking up to follow the ball or watch the opponent.

Dude is staring at his visual snapshot.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Dude is staring at his visual snapshot.

Yes. This is pretty much the way that AA describes it.

I didn't know that some pros do the same. But I am already waiting for the ball to leave my sight, and after a while, then I lift my head.

If you are really not lifting your head and shoulder too early, perhaps a gaze technique that is closer to Federer than to Agassi might be optimal for you. Optimal gaze technique may vary a bit from one player to the next. Try variations of both of these to find what works best for you.

Not sure what else to suggest.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yes. This is pretty much the way that AA describes it.




If you are really not lifting your head and shoulder too early, perhaps a gaze technique that is closer to Federer than to Agassi might be optimal for you. Optimal gaze technique may vary a bit from one player to the next. Try variations of both of these to find what works best for you.

Not sure what else to suggest.

"Yes. This is pretty much the way that AA describes it."

Some of the stuff I make up is true? Whoa

 

[kramer woodie]

Interesting point.

Curious

Interesting observation. Now here is something else for you to think about and maybe even experiment with if you hit a one hand backhand.
When I hit my backhand (1 hander), I see the ball through the string bed. That's what happens many times, not every time, but I hit most
topspin backhands by seeing the ball hit the strings looking through the racquet from the backside. My head tracking the ball drops slightly
toward my left shoulder. Thus I am able to hit well out in front taking the ball on the rise. I do not pull the head up from that position until the completed follow through with the butt cap facing my opponents side of the net. I still see the ball and my opponent moving to the ball
through the string bed.

Aloha

 

[ByeByePoly]

I hit today and checked how soon I see the ball after contact. I am aware of the ball almost immediately after contact, but not tracking it. Hard to nail down when tracking kicks in, but I would say between service line (my side) and net.

I had another thought about watching the server. I think I have heard comments about reading racquet face. That would be a "no way" if the suggestion was about contact. In fact, contact itself happens in a flash from racquet drop behind back. I don't think I have ever intensely watched the toss, but I tried today to see if it helped track serve better. Not really ... whatever I do now tracking serve after contact seemed the same to me.

It seems that it would be useful information to review enough video of your strokes, to verify you consistently have a steady gaze until ball is gone (been hit). If not ... choose a technique that works for you to fix that.