Appalachian State Player suspened for offensive remark

JLyon

Hall of Fame
my question is where was the referee or the officials?
Obviously the player deserves discipline, but need more information?
Was there some issues prior to the remarks? Was this during the match or when players were leaving court?
 
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That's a pretty idiotic thing to say to someone, especially someone who is named John Wilson IV. Chances are pretty high he has a relationship with his dad, not to mention his grandfather, and great-grandfather who he seems to be named after.
 

Rattler

Hall of Fame
my question is where was the referee or the officials?
Obviously the player deserves discipline, but need more information?
Was there some issues prior to the remarks? Was this during the match or when players were leaving court?

Pretty sure it was a roving Umpire, who probably wasn’t at that court...

A racially charged remark like this would be an automatic default, and letter from referee to the AD of the school...I imagine this student is at risk of being asked to leave the school.
 
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Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Hopefully this won't be considered a political post, this player was suspended for making an offensive remark, I would imagine there are lots of insults exchanged during matches but this seems to cross the line.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-tennis-players-suspended-racist-comment-160202311.html
I have no idea what exactly was offensive.. No dirty words were said but I think something was implied by what they said,, likely racist.... But anyway,, this article had one sweet pic of underarmour shoe. is that the Team issue ?

c0aef0f04a09d9532ae2265ebd436555
 

Fabresque

Legend
Completely unacceptable and an actual idiot. This is why I can't stand society, where the hell does he get off literally saying that stuff to an African-American who was obviously named after his father, implying he has a very good relationship with him. Can't believe the coach did nothing, and where the hell is the umpire or at least a roving referee???

Other guy doesn't look too clean either, seems he's posted homophobic tweets and seems to extremely hate transgenders, goodness me.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Completely unacceptable and an actual idiot. This is why I can't stand society, where the hell does he get off literally saying that stuff to an African-American who was obviously named after his father, implying he has a very good relationship with him. Can't believe the coach did nothing, and where the hell is the umpire or at least a roving referee???

Other guy doesn't look too clean either, seems he's posted homophobic tweets and seems to extremely hate transgenders, goodness me.

I was reading comments after the Winston Salem Journal article on this situation. http://www.journalnow.com/sports/as...cle_1430cf1c-0509-11e8-9a2a-df58c32ee72e.html Several posters stated they heard from people who were on campus that insults were traded between the players before the quoted remark-supposedly initiated by the NCAT player. One of the posters is a former D1 asst coach of a Power team and now is an academy director. I would assume him to be impartial and rational. He commented:"The App State kid responded in kind after several comments and actions were taken by the NCA&T player. Hopefully the AD at ASU will allow whole story to come out as both comments were off color trash talk." While the reported remark is repulsive, we need to hear the whole story, and if both parties were at fault, this situation should have been handled privately with the suspensions rather than allowing the story to blow up resulting in the student's face and quote being reported in the NY Times and UK newspapers. This remark will haunt the guy for years if anyone-future boss, etc does an Internet search. Some tweeters were even looking into the young man's family members' twitter accounts. Suspension is appropriate, but this is not the 1600s, and no 18 or 19 y/o should have to wear a Scarlet Letter R for the rest of his life, especially if he was baited. Like you say Fabreque, the NCAT victim has his own tweets defaming to women and using homosexual slang terms in a derogatory way. In today's environment, a single offensive remark or a series of tweets gets as much or more attention than stories of pedophiles and molesters. Yes, it was wrong; maybe it was provoked. The young man deserves punishment but not intense public shaming on a global basis.

I have been at tennis matches for Power Teams where the benches were yelling a lot of trash talk-but at least none of it was directed at a particular race, gender, or gender orientation. Hopefully this will serve as a message to all teams to dial back on the trash talk. A few beers in a fan or nonplaying team member, and a similar situation could happen at a Power school.

Does a racist remark make extreme cyberbullying OK? Does every offense have to be made known to the world? It would have been better for offended party to have given ASU several days to respond and react and privately suspend player before jumping on the Twitter train. That may have been more meanspirited than the original remark of the offender. Was the NCAT player seeking justice or revenge?
 
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NoChance

Rookie
To answer JLyon, I imagine that there were two officials there, and one (maybe by toss of the coin), was appointed "referee."

If it was a six-court venue (even four), with two officials, then it becomes glorified babysitting.

And, it is easy to miss some things. Though, this one seems like a no-brainer. Even Stevie Wonder would have figured it out, unless there were other fires to put out.

It will be interesting to see how this all works out. It will be up to the athletic department to figure it out, unless the coach is proactive. We'll see.
 

dsb

Rookie
Player 1: 'At least I know my dad'
Player 2: 'That's OK, I know your mom real well'

...an exchange heard from the 12U's up more times than could possibly be counted... for ages. But, this is a problem in college?
 

fngmoe

New User
This is ridiculous... The site officials could and should have handled it then and there. The ITA's got procedures for this stuff.

I'd like to hear what the repercussions are for posting 'Black twitter, do ya thing', but I suspect we won't.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
Completely unacceptable and an actual idiot. This is why I can't stand society, where the hell does he get off literally saying that stuff to an African-American who was obviously named after his father, implying he has a very good relationship with him. Can't believe the coach did nothing, and where the hell is the umpire or at least a roving referee???

Other guy doesn't look too clean either, seems he's posted homophobic tweets and seems to extremely hate transgenders, goodness me.
so sounds like some hypocrisy on one parties part in some ways. Bigotry is bigotry in the end.
 

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
@jcgatennismom I imagine that you might know this Appalachian State player as he is from the Southern section and is in the same graduating class as your son. My son has played against him in Zonals some years ago. He found out about this situation from texts he received from Southern section friends. Truth be told his friends were not surprised.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
@jcgatennismom I imagine that you might know this Appalachian State player as he is from the Southern section and is in the same graduating class as your son. My son has played against him in Zonals some years ago. He found out about this situation from texts he received from Southern section friends. Truth be told his friends were not surprised.
I have seen him at tourneys-remember one year he was collecting used racquets and shoes for some cause at a tourney-dont remember if it was for players with special needs, wheelchairs, or low income. I personally never had any interaction with him or his dad. My son had several friends who were SC players-SB was not one of them. However, I believe too many people are tried in the court of public opinion without all the facts being known. I would not want any young person, whether I personally knew or liked them or not, to be cyber attacked on such a large scale. I think this was a case of out of control trash talk vs outright racism with both parties probably sharing in the blame but only one party publicly shamed. That said I am glad to see that the ASU chancellor is asking the AD to engage a 3rd party to assess the diversity and inclusion practices within the athletic dept. Based on other tweets from AA athletes at ASU in different sports, there could be elements of racism in the school's athletic culture, not just with individuals.
 
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Bluefan75

Professional
Not just the remark, but the fact that a coach heard it and had done nothing of it. Too many bystanders in today's world.

Or one could say that the need to be "completely and utterly shown to be on the 'right' side of an 'issue' " has made it so people are too easily triggered and it's an easy way to get under someone's skin. Not to mention, if the trash talk has been back and forth, at what point do you step in, as opposed to, these are adults, let them settle it. After all they are adults. And I know this is not PC, and no one can *ever* be seen as in favor of this, but who would have held it against the guy if he'd have kicked his tail? Not me.

Here's the thing: you talk about bystanders, does Ap State player say what he said if the two of them would possibly duke it out? Does trash talk get to that point if so? It's like the tripper guy who plays basketball at Duke. He never does that if he had ever grown up playing on blacktops, because instead of a coach deciding what kind of punishment he gets based on what kind of message, er, I mean, whether the guy is needed to win a game, guys pound his head in until he either figures out not to do it or he can't play hoops. Do these guys lip like this if they know they have to back up their words? This is why tennis has so many d-bags, they never had to actually run the risk of being taken to task for something.

There's too much relying on "authority" and refs and officials, which always leads to idiots, because when officials are involved you get so many mitigations that the "punishment" has no deterrent effect. If the guy knew there was a chance things could be settled right then and there, I'm guessing neither one gets so lippy.
 
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dsb

Rookie
White guy beats Black guy 1 and 1. During the course of the drubbing, or shortly after, Black guy tells White guy 'must be nice living off of daddy's trust fund' (https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/7ua6t7/racist_comment_leads_to_suspension_for/), White guy responds with 'at least I know my dad'. Black guy used a stereotypical white privilege slur, White guy responds with a 'stereotypical' black slur, Black guy protests on twitter, White guy gets kicked off the team. Would it have been better if 'at least I know my dad' referred to his mother being a *****?

I'm sorry, but this is B.S. and should never have left the court.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
White guy beats Black guy 1 and 1. During the course of the drubbing, or shortly after, Black guy tells White guy 'must be nice living off of daddy's trust fund' ...

Don't worry, the black guy will no doubt be suspended from his team for making that remark. :)
 
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Fabresque

Legend
White guy beats Black guy 1 and 1. During the course of the drubbing, or shortly after, Black guy tells White guy 'must be nice living off of daddy's trust fund' (https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/7ua6t7/racist_comment_leads_to_suspension_for/), White guy responds with 'at least I know my dad'. Black guy used a stereotypical white privilege slur, White guy responds with a 'stereotypical' black slur, Black guy protests on twitter, White guy gets kicked off the team. Would it have been better if 'at least I know my dad' referred to his mother being a *****?

I'm sorry, but this is B.S. and should never have left the court.
Yea, it went both ways. Just the African American wanted to make a big deal about it. Not sure if he wanted to get justice or by just getting revenge. The guys getting numerous death threats and got kicked off the team. Black guy will also be suspended when the investigation goes further. If he said that term, no way they're gonna let him off the hook either. And like I said, he hasn't been the "nicest" towards homosexuals.
 

atatu

Legend
Yea, it went both ways. Just the African American wanted to make a big deal about it. Not sure if he wanted to get justice or by just getting revenge. The guys getting numerous death threats and got kicked off the team. Black guy will also be suspended when the investigation goes further. If he said that term, no way they're gonna let him off the hook either. And like I said, he hasn't been the "nicest" towards homosexuals.

Did he actually get kicked off or just suspended ?

Also, not to make light of the situation but doesn't he look a LOT like the guy from 30 Rock ??
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
White guy beats Black guy 1 and 1. During the course of the drubbing, or shortly after, Black guy tells White guy 'must be nice living off of daddy's trust fund' (https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/7ua6t7/racist_comment_leads_to_suspension_for/), White guy responds with 'at least I know my dad'. Black guy used a stereotypical white privilege slur, White guy responds with a 'stereotypical' black slur, Black guy protests on twitter, White guy gets kicked off the team. Would it have been better if 'at least I know my dad' referred to his mother being a *****?

I'm sorry, but this is B.S. and should never have left the court.

They were both racist. But since white boyz be racist for so long, they have exhausted their racism privilege. Get used to that, crackerz. Karma is a *****.

I recall a ref asking a kid during a match "Do you care to repeat that?" after he had said some slur(I didn't catch it). The boy turned his head away. The ref then said, "If it's not worth repeating, you'll be keeping those remarks to yourself in the future, or there won't be a future for you in this tournament." That was 28 years ago. I don't even recall trash talking at all. Is this common now? Or was I in a privileged league...
 

dsb

Rookie
They were both racist. But since white boyz be racist for so long, they have exhausted their racism privilege. Get used to that, crackerz. Karma is a *****.

I recall a ref asking a kid during a match "Do you care to repeat that?" after he had said some slur(I didn't catch it). The boy turned his head away. The ref then said, "If it's not worth repeating, you'll be keeping those remarks to yourself in the future, or there won't be a future for you in this tournament." That was 28 years ago. I don't even recall trash talking at all. Is this common now? Or was I in a privileged league...

I played juniors in Florida, so I can't speak to other geographical areas, but yes, there was a lot of smack talk, and most of it was way worse than this exchange... Which is why I think it's ridiculous that this particular exchange has garnered so much attention. The match is over, one guy said this, the other guy said that, one guy won, the other lost, it's over, get over it. But, one guy didn't like the outcome, took to social media, with the smallest snippet of the exchange that shows himself in the best light, and the other guy gets booted from his team and crucified in the media. I think that's just plain wrong.
 
While this topic has about run its course, I wanted to share this link that Colette of Zoo Tennis posted: http://www.southcarolina.usta.com/High_School_/_College/spartanburg_teen_wants_to_play_it_forward/ The 2015 article details the white player's volunteer work teaching underprivileged AA kids tennis.

When I saw this article on Yahoo, I thought there was probably more to this story. I also recall some of the trash talk in my junior years (have to get in my way back machine or in my case... way way back), and I recall players losing 1&1 and embarrassment causing things to get a little chippy. I just think this thing got way out of hand.
 
I have no idea what exactly was offensive.. No dirty words were said but I think something was implied by what they said,, likely racist.... But anyway,, this article had one sweet pic of underarmour shoe. is that the Team issue ?

c0aef0f04a09d9532ae2265ebd436555

That's a picture of Andy Murray.
 

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Hard to tell what actually happened on the court, and clearly none of us were at this match so we can only assume. Its disappointing to hear that the constant smack talking in the sport has turned to assumptions of racial slurs, and even more disappointing that it becomes a twitter witch hunt; but that is 2018 for you.

Smack talk in college tennis has been around for years. I used to play guys all the time in the early 90's who would resort to this type talking/mind game tactics, especially if they were losing and especially in the mid-major/small program matches which are less observed by officiating and fans. In some cases it even went further then just talk. Lets face it, there are coaches, and conferences, out there that promote it so much it comes from the stands now; all in order to drive more fans to see the spectacle and put it on par with other sports. Somehow tennis has a reputation of being a sissy sport, and lacking the confrontational "tough man" appearance of more popular sports like football, baseball, and basketball. Its driven some to try and change this perception by integrating trash talk in the sport, and it even happens on the pro level now. No one understands the sport, so they bring it to their understanding by encouraging this kind of behavior. I fault the coaches on both teams for not recognizing this and stopping it before it got out of hand. They are the ones who should take responsibility for this happening.

Hopefully other players learn from this experience and don't repeat it. I also hope both schools investigate their players and address the issue appropriately.
 
White guy beats Black guy 1 and 1. During the course of the drubbing, or shortly after, Black guy tells White guy 'must be nice living off of daddy's trust fund' (https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/7ua6t7/racist_comment_leads_to_suspension_for/), White guy responds with 'at least I know my dad'. Black guy used a stereotypical white privilege slur, White guy responds with a 'stereotypical' black slur, Black guy protests on twitter, White guy gets kicked off the team. Would it have been better if 'at least I know my dad' referred to his mother being a *****?

I'm sorry, but this is B.S. and should never have left the court.

A lot of back forth always goes on in college matches and even on the junior level. This is going to be a growing problem and parents, players and coaches need to grow up. Not a good look for the future of tennis.
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
Sounds like a sore loser took his gripe public and focused the attention on the other party's bad behavior rather than his own.

I prefer a standard operating procedure where an offended party first takes their offense privately to the source. If that fails to bring satisfaction, the next step is to share with another party and again approach the source of the offense privately. Going public is only a reasonable choice after repeated attempt to address the specific offense privately have failed. A rush to go public and embarrass someone for a private comment says more about the party making the complaint public than about the target for public ridicule.

Most teams these days have social media policies which prevent taking conflicts public without significant work first at private resolution of the conflict. I'm not sure of the school in question, but taking an issue like this to Twitter should earn significant discipline from schools with policies requiring attempts at internal resolution before going public.
 

Vicious Vik

Semi-Pro
Has the player ever played again this season? If not is that too harsh of a penalty? Suspended an entire season and a year of eligibility wasted for a heat of the moment comment that was prompted by the other team?
 

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Has the player ever played again this season? If not is that too harsh of a penalty? Suspended an entire season and a year of eligibility wasted for a heat of the moment comment that was prompted by the other team?

Hasn't played since the A&T match, and App is looking for a new coach so its gone downhill
 

SavvyStringer

Professional
I have no idea what exactly was offensive.. No dirty words were said but I think something was implied by what they said,, likely racist.... But anyway,, this article had one sweet pic of underarmour shoe. is that the Team issue ?

c0aef0f04a09d9532ae2265ebd436555
Based on the shadow, shoes, racket, that picture is a picture of murray not an app state player.
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
Sensitive snowflakes. Why is that worse than saying "f*** you".

Must be nice to get to pick whats acceptable and not
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
Because saying F you to someone, while vulgar is not racist. Is it really that hard to understand?

They are both insults. One is no worse than the other, just how someone perceives them. All comes down to sticks and stones, something people have forgotten
 

TennisLBC

Professional
They are both insults. One is no worse than the other, just how someone perceives them. All comes down to sticks and stones, something people have forgotten
If you need to use a racial slur to insult anyone, you are bigot. Plain and simple.
 

Ruark

Professional
I'm glad I have enough of a life that I have better things to do than sit in front of a computer typing on Twitter.
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Where's the story about the punishment of the opposing players? All the P.C. crowd here assured us that would happen, also.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Where's the story about the punishment of the opposing players? All the P.C. crowd here assured us that would happen, also.
I just looked at the opponent who was a senior so it was his last year anyway. He had not had a successful career-he had a 2-14 freshmen season and was 1-14 his senior year with his best year as a junior 4-11. The team had an 0-18 season that year. Team probably has no or few $ for athletic scholarships to have that bad of a record. Sounds like that coach should have scheduled some low to mid level D2/D3/NAIA matches for that team vs mostly D1 matches-team did lose to NAIA teams but they played top NAIA teams. All the players who were underclassmen that year returned except one who transferred so it doesnt look like any player was expelled from NC A& T team for their share of trash talk and rude comments. Spencer's opponent played 9 other matches after his App State match so appears no consequences for him. Not fair but maybe it is punishment enough to play on a team that loses 18 straight matches....
 
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