Are we ready to accept that who wins tomorrow is a better player?

[zagor]

Fed is in great form, says as much and is now in his second Slam final.

So? You can lose when you're in great form, you can win when you're in bad form. You don't get a free pass for a loss either way.

Some Fed fans though want to keep pretending it wouldn't mean much.

And many Fed detractors are pretending it means everything for his career that is all but finished. It's just another tennis match, in which he isn't even the favourite to win, the current ultra-dominant #1 is.

If the last hurrah happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it's just the way it is. It didn't happen for Agassi and him and his fans moved on, so will Fed and his fans (and the game itself obviously).

 

[mattosgrant]

There will be no end to Federer-Djokovic, Nadal-Djokovic, Nadal-Federer debates no matter what. One player could win 100 matches in a row against the other and it would be "well he was injured", "well he had mono", "well his parents divorced", "well it is a match up issue", "the courts were unfavorable", "he was tired", "he is using PEDs" and round and round it goes. The only thing to slow down the discussion is those players retiring.

 

[zagor]

Yes, just like Nadal has made up for his decline by being mentally stronger, having a better backhand, and being a much better tactician now than he ever was. But it's just that the field is too strong these days.

I have to agree, I could swear it was 2010 Nadal out there the way he was playing, Fognini had to hit 70 winners to beat him. Fabio was en fuego, an excellent example of the improved opposition these days.

 

[zagor]

There will be no end to Federer-Djokovic, Nadal-Djokovic, Nadal-Federer debates no matter what. One player could win 100 matches in a row against the other and it would be "well he was injured", "well he had mono", "well his parents divorced", "well it is a match up issue", "the courts were unfavorable", "he was tired", "he is using PEDs" and round and round it goes.

All that is true but it's still stupid to believe that a guy that is likely 1-2 years from retirement is gonna define his career in one match. Fed isn't a one slam wonder that bagged a slam title to the shock of everyone in his twilight years a la Gomez or Pennetta just the other day.

 

[The_18th_Slam]

I have to agree, I could swear it was 2010 Nadal out there the way he was playing, Fognini had to hit 70 winners to beat him. Fabio was en fuego, an excellent example of the improved opposition these days.

Indeed. Nadal's level was scary. But Fognini, as we know, is the GOAT when he's peaking, so there was nothing peakest of peak Nadal could do about it. Oh, well, I guess he's paying the price for dominating the weak field in 2010.

 

[BringBackSV]

So? You can lose when you're in great form, you can win when you're in bad form. You don't get a free pass for a loss either way.



And many Fed detractors are pretending it means everything for his career that is all but finished. It's just another tennis match, in which he isn't even the favourite to win, the current ultra-dominant #1 is.

If the last hurrah happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it's just the way it is. It didn't happen for Agassi and him and his fans moved on, so will Fed and his fans (and the game itself obviously).

Nobody wins in bad form. Fed is an excellent player but Novak is simply better at their best.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Nobody wins in bad form. Fed is an excellent player but Novak is simply better at their best.

Just like Nadal is an excellent player and an overachiever who wouldn't get past No. 10 in this era with his 2008 and 2010 forms. The game has evolved and Nadal's peak form is only good enough for him to be 7th in the World.

 

[BringBackSV]

Just like Nadal is an excellent player and an overachiever who wouldn't get past No. 10 in this era with his 2008 and 2010 forms. The game has evolved and Nadal's peak form is only good enough for him to be 7th in the World.

The difference is you are being ridiculous. I never claimed that Roger was at his best in 11,13 or even 14. However in 2015, he's been able to recapture or surpass his best. The difference is that Novak is simply a higher caliber player than Fed has ever been. There is no shame in that and I don't know why Fed fans get emotional about it, he's still one of the greatest ever.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

The difference is you are being ridiculous. I never claimed that Roger was at his best in 11,13 or even 14. However in 2015, he's been able to recapture or surpass his best. The difference is that Novak is simply a higher caliber player than Fed has ever been. There is no shame in that and I don't know why Fed fans get emotional about it, he's still one of the greatest ever.

I believe it's ridiculous to think that a player at 34 is better than he was when he was younger and more explosive because he's got a couple of new nifty tricks..

And Nadal has always down played his chances/level of play. In 2013 he said similar things to this year.. difference was that the competition was subpar and Novak was having an off year after 2012.

 

[BringBackSV]

I believe it's ridiculous to think that a player at 34 is better than he was when he was younger and more explosive because he's got a couple of new nifty tricks..

And Nadal has always down played his chances/level of play. In 2013 he said similar things to this year.. difference was that the competition was subpar and Novak was having an off year after 2012.

I don't care about Rafa bro and you are just reaching anyway. You started the first half of the season proclaiming nonstop how weak this era is. Fed has an impressive career and Im glad Ive been able to watch him place himself amonsgt the greatest ever.

 

[BGod]

The difference is you are being ridiculous. I never claimed that Roger was at his best in 11,13 or even 14. However in 2015, he's been able to recapture or surpass his best. The difference is that Novak is simply a higher caliber player than Fed has ever been. There is no shame in that and I don't know why Fed fans get emotional about it, he's still one of the greatest ever.

Federer is 6 years older than Djokovic.
Federer routinely dominated Novak aged 26-28

Prime age for tennis is 20-26
Federer is now 34.

 

[BringBackSV]

Federer is 6 years older than Djokovic.
Federer routinely dominated Novak aged 26-28

Prime age for tennis is 20-26
Federer is now 34.

The age "advantage" has gone both ways. Every player is different, we can not say because it is not typical that it isn't true.

 

[RF20Lennon]

The better player of the day won! I absolutely agree with that.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Nole may not even good enough to make the final in the next 6 years.

Oh is that so mr. objective know-it-all? , And why is that?​

 

[ABCD]

Thank you all for contributing to this thread.

The better player of the day won! I absolutely agree with that.

Good start.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Thank you all for contributing to this thread.

Good start.

Just to make it clear I meant Djokovic was the superior man yesterday not that he would beat peak Fed. In case my initial wording gave the impression of the latter.

 

[The_18th_Slam]

The age "advantage" has gone both ways.

No, it didn't.

Number of matches they played during Federer's peak years (2004, 2005, and 2006): 2
Number of matches they played during Djokovic's peak years: (2011 and 2015): 11

 

[ABCD]

Just to make it clear I meant Djokovic was the superior man yesterday not that he would beat peak Fed. In case my initial wording gave the impression of the latter.

Your wording was fine. You said what you meant it.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

There will be no end to Federer-Djokovic, Nadal-Djokovic, Nadal-Federer debates no matter what. One player could win 100 matches in a row against the other and it would be "well he was injured", "well he had mono", "well his parents divorced", "well it is a match up issue", "the courts were unfavorable", "he was tired", "he is using PEDs" and round and round it goes. The only thing to slow down the discussion is those players retiring.

Post of the thread.

 

[dh003i]

As horrible as it would be for the sport, I'd love for it to be found out that Djokovic uses something, in the sense of seeing the horror among his fan and because it would completely disqualify everything he's done.

But it will never happen because the very best players in the world (1) Don't seem like they'd break the rules like that; (2) Aren't stupid, the risks far outweigh any possible gains.

Think about what it would mean for Djokovic if PED or steroid allegations were levied and proven true? Quite possibly financial ruin, the loss of many contracts at the least, and the complete destruction of his legacy. That's why the doping-conspiritoids are wrong and why their suspicions aren't even reasonable.

 

[uscwang]

As horrible as it would be for the sport, I'd love for it to be found out that Djokovic uses something, in the sense of seeing the horror among his fan and because it would completely disqualify everything he's done.

But it will never happen because the very best players in the world (1) Don't seem like they'd break the rules like that; (2) Aren't stupid, the risks far outweigh any possible gains.

Think about what it would mean for Djokovic if PED or steroid allegations were levied and proven true? Quite possibly financial ruin, the loss of many contracts at the least, and the complete destruction of his legacy. That's why the doping-conspiritoids are wrong and why their suspicions aren't even reasonable.

Why don't you save this for a no-news day?

 

[dh003i]

Why don't you save this for a no-news day?

What news is there? The terminator won another major, horrible for tennis, not what the vast majority of fans wanted to see, the trend favoring unenjoyable tennis continues. Won't be worth watching after Federer retires.

 

[Slice'n'dice]

As horrible as it would be for the sport, I'd love for it to be found out that Djokovic uses something, in the sense of seeing the horror among his fan and because it would completely disqualify everything he's done.

But it will never happen because the very best players in the world (1) Don't seem like they'd break the rules like that; (2) Aren't stupid, the risks far outweigh any possible gains.

Think about what it would mean for Djokovic if PED or steroid allegations were levied and proven true? Quite possibly financial ruin, the loss of many contracts at the least, and the complete destruction of his legacy. That's why the doping-conspiritoids are wrong and why their suspicions aren't even reasonable.

How naive can you get? Do you know how easy it is to tweak chemicals to make a similar drug but that hasn't been banned yet. A few years ago one of these got very popular across the world as a recreational drug - Mephedrone it was legal because it didn't exist before, but it was closely related to number of other drugs which is why it was so much more popular than the legal highs usually about, and there have been so many of those about. Do you really think that people wouldn't think to do that with performance enhancers? It wouldn't come up on a test and even if it did it wouldn't have been banned. I would not only say that a few players have been doing it, I would go as far as to say most players have used such drugs, it would certainly help explain how so many of these players are suddenly finding their best form in their 30s now when it didn't happen before. But hardly anyone is getting banned or tested positive.

The other thing of course is even if it was just one of the banned ones and one of the top players, tested positive for it, then it would not surprise me if said results were covered up, given the damage it would cause to tennis and the amount of money on the line.

People can keep trying to bury their head in the sand if they like, but it seems likely to me that there is a far bigger drug problem, in probably not just tennis but across all sports with such developments and I really don't know if there is anything that could be done to stop it.