Ball stuck in the net cord!?!

BlueB

Legend
I hit a nice drive, ball hits a slightly damaged spot and gets stuck between the cord and the tape. It was just a friendly set, so I called the point for my (weaker) opponent. But in a real match play situation, what would be the right call? Let, I guess?

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mmk

Hall of Fame
It didn't make it to your opponent's side of the net, so why would it be anything other than his point? If I hit a ball into the net (which I do way too often), I lose the point, and I don't see this situation as being any different.
 

OrangePower

Legend
I hit a nice drive, ball hits a slightly damaged spot and gets stuck between the cord and the tape. It was just a friendly set, so I called the point for my (weaker) opponent. But in a real match play situation, what would be the right call? Let, I guess?

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Opponents point. Ball stuck in net, or even going through (rather than over) the net, is treated same as any other netted shot.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
What if (and this really happened several times) the net had big holes in it and the ball went through it?
 

BlueB

Legend
It didn't make it to your opponent's side of the net, so why would it be anything other than his point? If I hit a ball into the net (which I do way too often), I lose the point, and I don't see this situation as being any different.
It nither fell into my, nor opponent's court, nor out, nor hit another object not in play, so technically the point didn't finish...

Anyways, I gave the point, but was really interested if there's a clearly defined rule.

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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
It nither fell into my, nor opponent's court, nor out, nor hit another object not in play, so technically the point didn't finish...

Anyways, I gave the point, but was really interested if there's a clearly defined rule.

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No ball that has hit below the net cord has ever legitimately landed in the opponents court for a winning point. It either falls on the ground, goes through or gets stuck. But it will never hop over the net cord. Physics my friend. It is your opponents point.

Technically the point ended because the ball came to rest without landing in your opponents court. Since he made the last successful shot, he wins. Same as if you swung at a ball and had it get stuck in the throat of your racket. Point may not have ended in a traditional fashion but the ball came rest before landing in your opponents court legitimately, so his point.
 

BlueB

Legend
No ball that has hit below the net cord has ever legitimately landed in the opponents court for a winning point. It either falls on the ground, goes through or gets stuck. But it will never hop over the net cord. Physics my friend. It is your opponents point.

Technically the point ended because the ball came to rest without landing in your opponents court. Since he made the last successful shot, he wins. Same as if you swung at a ball and had it get stuck in the throat of your racket. Point may not have ended in a traditional fashion but the ball came rest before landing in your opponents court legitimately, so his point.
Not as straight forward as you might think... From Tennis Canada website:

24. PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
a. The player serves two consecutive faults; or
b. The player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice
consecutively; or
c. The player returns the ball in play so that it hits the ground, or
before it bounces, an object, outside the correct court; or
TC Note: If the player striking the ball hits a scoring device or other
object attached to a net post, he loses the point.
d. The player returns the ball in play so that, before it bounces, it hits
a permanent fixture; or
e. The receiver returns the service before it bounces; or
f. The player deliberately carries or catches the ball in play on the
racket or deliberately touches it with the racket more than once; or
TC Note: Two hits, unintentionally occurring in the course of a single
continuous swing, are not deemed a double hit.
g. The player or the racket, whether in the player’s hand or not, or
anything which the player is wearing or carrying touches the net,
net posts/singles sticks, cord or metal cable, strap or band, or the
opponent’s court at any time while the ball is in play; or
h. The player hits the ball before it has passed the net; or
i. The ball in play touches the player or anything that the player is wearing or carrying, except the racket; or
j. The ball in play touches the racket when the player is not holding it;
or
k. The player deliberately and materially changes the shape of the racket when the ball is in play; or
l. In doubles, both players touch the ball when returning it.

So none of the above criteria is met, in this case. Therefore we are just basing the decision on the assumption the ball would probably have bounced back to my court...

Can anyone cite a real rule to clear the dilemma?

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esgee48

G.O.A.T.
It is your opponents' point. You failed to legally return the ball over the net when it got stuck between the net and the net strap. In order for you to get the ball over the net, you would need to hit the ball again over the net (illegal) and/or remove the ball with something you are holding (illegal). The rules you cited cover these situations. It is also similar to hitting a ball into the net only in this case the net strap prevented the ball from hitting the court on your side.

This is different from hitting a 'net cord' that would crawl over the net via spin. Hitting thru a hole in the net does not count either because you are not allowed to hit underneath the net cord. You can hit around permanent fixtures, but you cannot go thru permanent fixtures. Nets are considered permanent fixtures.
 

5sets

Professional
No ball that has hit below the net cord has ever legitimately landed in the opponents court for a winning point. It either falls on the ground, goes through or gets stuck. But it will never hop over the net cord. Physics my friend. It is your opponents point.

Technically the point ended because the ball came to rest without landing in your opponents court. Since he made the last successful shot, he wins. Same as if you swung at a ball and had it get stuck in the throat of your racket. Point may not have ended in a traditional fashion but the ball came rest before landing in your opponents court legitimately, so his point.
Here I have to disagree. On more than one occasion I have seen on television or myself my opponent has a hit a ball that has struck below the netcord or 'white tape', the actual black net, and the ball has hopped over to the other side.

Seems to defy Physics, but the speed of the ball, or topspin, causes it to skip over the net after hitting the netting.

But yes, if ball were stuck in the net, opponents point.

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BlueB

Legend
It is your opponents' point. You failed to legally return the ball over the net when it got stuck between the net and the net strap. In order for you to get the ball over the net, you would need to hit the ball again over the net (illegal) and/or remove the ball with something you are holding (illegal). The rules you cited cover these situations. It is also similar to hitting a ball into the net only in this case the net strap prevented the ball from hitting the court on your side.

This is different from hitting a 'net cord' that would crawl over the net via spin. Hitting thru a hole in the net does not count either because you are not allowed to hit underneath the net cord. You can hit around permanent fixtures, but you cannot go thru permanent fixtures. Nets are considered permanent fixtures.
Roof on indoors, lights, fences, trees, benches, umpire's chair, net posts, etc., are permanent fixtures. Net is neutral part of the court, a 3D line if you wish...

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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
It is your opponents' point. You failed to legally return the ball over the net when it got stuck between the net and the net strap. In order for you to get the ball over the net, you would need to hit the ball again over the net (illegal) and/or remove the ball with something you are holding (illegal). The rules you cited cover these situations. It is also similar to hitting a ball into the net only in this case the net strap prevented the ball from hitting the court on your side.

This is different from hitting a 'net cord' that would crawl over the net via spin. Hitting thru a hole in the net does not count either because you are not allowed to hit underneath the net cord. You can hit around permanent fixtures, but you cannot go thru permanent fixtures. Nets are considered permanent fixtures.
This largely covers it. In order for you to legally win the point, you have to get the ball over the net and into the opponents court without a) touching the net, b) touching the ball with anything but your racket or c) hitting the ball a second time with a non-continuous swing. Good luck with that Kobayashi Maru scenario.
Admittedly you both could just stand there refusing to concede the point. But that's a pretty ludicrous thing to do, even on match point.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Here I have to disagree. On more than one occasion I have seen on television or myself my opponent has a hit a ball that has struck below the netcord or 'white tape', the actual black net, and the ball has hopped over to the other side.

Seems to defy Physics, but the speed of the ball, or topspin, causes it to skip over the net after hitting the netting.

But yes, if ball were stuck in the net, opponents point.

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Pics or it didn't happen.
 

5sets

Professional
Pics or it didn't happen.
Lol, it's one of those things that can't be done if tried and I'm surely not one that films themselves playing.

But, yes on more than one occassion I've witnessed a hard struck topspin groundstroke, generally a forehand, striking the black net part of the net and propelling forward 'hopping' over the white tape.

Don't believe me. Makes no difference to me mate.

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BlueB

Legend
This largely covers it. In order for you to legally win the point, you have to get the ball over the net and into the opponents court without a) touching the net, b) touching the ball with anything but your racket or c) hitting the ball a second time with a non-continuous swing. Good luck with that Kobayashi Maru scenario.
Admittedly you both could just stand there refusing to concede the point. But that's a pretty ludicrous thing to do, even on match point.
The rules only describe how you loose the point...

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BlueB

Legend
I don't understand how anyone could think it's anything but a point for your opponent. Watch the first point here:
Fair enough, chair's decision clears the dilemma.

In our case the ball got stuck in a damaged spot, just under the cable, pushing the white tape down.

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Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
The rules only describe how you loose the point...

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yes and in all scenarios, once you do something to that ball in the net, you have lost the point. As I mentioned you could just stand there indefinitely refusing to lose the point, but that's pretty dumb. The opponent has no onus to do anything until you remove the ball from the net and thereby lose the point "by the rules".
 

TenS_Ace

Professional
I've never had a ball stuck in a net ...but I've severed 2 net-cords with the sheer velocity of my serve :D
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I've stuck a ball in the net. I've seen two balls stuck in the throats of rackets in the last month alone. That's the funniest scenario since it takes a while for everyone on court to realize what happened.
 
...this is the first time I've looked at this thread because, by it's title it was SO obvious that it answered it's own question--but, got totally bored and had nothing better to do, so I bit--this is why I always bring my own net to the public courts of left coast cities...a bit tedious, but with a little practice, it can be installed by two strong persons in less then a half hour.

...back to something more important and germaine to the game, the question, what was the name of Pat Brady's horse on the "Roy Rogers and Dale Evans Show"???
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
...this is the first time I've looked at this thread because, by it's title it was SO obvious that it answered it's own question--but, got totally bored and had nothing better to do, so I bit--this is why I always bring my own net to the public courts of left coast cities...a bit tedious, but with a little practice, it can be installed by two strong persons in less then a half hour.

...back to something more important and germaine to the game, the question, what was the name of Pat Brady's horse on the "Roy Rogers and Dale Evans Show"???
I only know Roy Roger's horse saw Trigger. Went to a Roy Rogers museum as a kid and was somewhat horrified to see Roy had the horse stuffed when he died.

Apparently Napolean did this too.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
I've stuck a ball in the net. I've seen two balls stuck in the throats of rackets in the last month alone. That's the funniest scenario since it takes a while for everyone on court to realize what happened.
I got one stuck in the throat of my racquet a couple months ago, it did take a while, for a couple seconds I was thinking it had gone straight up and was on its way down somewhere. A couple years ago an opponent swears that one of my serves went through the throat of his racquet.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
Fair enough, chair's decision clears the dilemma.

In our case the ball got stuck in a damaged spot, just under the cable, pushing the white tape down.

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Opponents point. 100%. Theres no points awarded for "could've been's" if the net chord/tape wasnt damaged.

Casualties of war/court conditions.
 

OrangePower

Legend
Not as straight forward as you might think... From Tennis Canada website:

24. PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
a. The player serves two consecutive faults; or
b. The player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice
consecutively; or
c. The player returns the ball in play so that it hits the ground, or
before it bounces, an object, outside the correct court; or
TC Note: If the player striking the ball hits a scoring device or other
object attached to a net post, he loses the point.
d. The player returns the ball in play so that, before it bounces, it hits
a permanent fixture; or
e. The receiver returns the service before it bounces; or
f. The player deliberately carries or catches the ball in play on the
racket or deliberately touches it with the racket more than once; or
TC Note: Two hits, unintentionally occurring in the course of a single
continuous swing, are not deemed a double hit.
g. The player or the racket, whether in the player’s hand or not, or
anything which the player is wearing or carrying touches the net,
net posts/singles sticks, cord or metal cable, strap or band, or the
opponent’s court at any time while the ball is in play; or
h. The player hits the ball before it has passed the net; or
i. The ball in play touches the player or anything that the player is wearing or carrying, except the racket; or
j. The ball in play touches the racket when the player is not holding it;
or
k. The player deliberately and materially changes the shape of the racket when the ball is in play; or
l. In doubles, both players touch the ball when returning it.

So none of the above criteria is met, in this case. Therefore we are just basing the decision on the assumption the ball would probably have bounced back to my court...

Can anyone cite a real rule to clear the dilemma?

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From USTA Friend at Court publication, ITF Rules of Tennis section, Paragraph 11: Ball in Play, USTA Comment 11.1:

Q: Is a point decided when a good shot has clearly passed a player, or when an apparently bad shot passes over the baseline or sideline?
A: No. A ball is in play until it bounces twice or lands outside the court, hits a permanent fixture, or hits a player. A ball that becomes embedded in the
net is out of play.
 

PrinceMoron

Legend
A lob gets caught by the wind and carried off into low orbit.

How long do you have to wait to see where it is going to bounce?

Think big




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jm1980

G.O.A.T.
It is your opponents' point. You failed to legally return the ball over the net when it got stuck between the net and the net strap. In order for you to get the ball over the net, you would need to hit the ball again over the net (illegal) and/or remove the ball with something you are holding (illegal). The rules you cited cover these situations. It is also similar to hitting a ball into the net only in this case the net strap prevented the ball from hitting the court on your side.

This is different from hitting a 'net cord' that would crawl over the net via spin. Hitting thru a hole in the net does not count either because you are not allowed to hit underneath the net cord. You can hit around permanent fixtures, but you cannot go thru permanent fixtures. Nets are considered permanent fixtures.
Roof on indoors, lights, fences, trees, benches, umpire's chair, net posts, etc., are permanent fixtures. Net is neutral part of the court, a 3D line if you wish...

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Incorrect. The net and net posts are not considered permanent fixtures. If a ball ricochets off the net or net posts and lands in, it's still in play.

Note that a scorecard attached to the net post, on the other hand, is a permanent fixture
 

Cage Rattler

New User
Weird scenario that happened when I played an Olympic doubles silver medalist a few years ago in local league. He was waiting to hit a smash at the net when my ball bounced on his side and then went back into the net on his side. Needless to say he threw his toys of the cot. Now, a hypothetical question ... can one play the ball after it had bounced the first time into the net but before it had bounced a second time?
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
Weird scenario that happened when I played an Olympic doubles silver medalist a few years ago in local league. He was waiting to hit a smash at the net when my ball bounced on his side and then went back into the net on his side. Needless to say he threw his toys of the cot. Now, a hypothetical question ... can one play the ball after it had bounced the first time into the net but before it had bounced a second time?
NO!

This isn't volleyball!
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
NO!

This isn't volleyball!
There's nothing in the rules forbidding it, so it must be allowed. The net is not a permanent fixture; you are allowed to hit a ball that bounces off the net cord, which is considered part of the net.

Of course any ball that does that will likely drop very close to the net, making a legal return next to impossible, specially considering you can't touch the net with your racquet
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
No ball that has hit below the net cord has ever legitimately landed in the opponents court for a winning point. It either falls on the ground, goes through or gets stuck. But it will never hop over the net cord. Physics my friend. It is your opponents point.

Technically the point ended because the ball came to rest without landing in your opponents court. Since he made the last successful shot, he wins. Same as if you swung at a ball and had it get stuck in the throat of your racket. Point may not have ended in a traditional fashion but the ball came rest before landing in your opponents court legitimately, so his point.
but only if you allow the racket to come to a stationary position. If you keep the racket continuously moving, the ball has not technically come to rest. If you then throw the racket with the ball in it over the net and it bounces twice, then it is your point. Your opponent can still win the point though, if he can hit your racket and ball back to your side with his racket. If he successfully does this, you are free to pluck your racket handle out of the air and sling it back over to his, and so on until someone "misses".....

happened in the 1897 Wimbledon Final, where a Scotsman won over an alien by eating him during the point as well. The alien was a blancmange, yum, tasty.
 

Cage Rattler

New User
Also seen the case where ball blown by the wind back across the net to the other side after bouncing and the guy runs around the net, without stepping into the court, and hits the ball directly into the net from the opponent's side to win the point. I have also been involved in points where both players standing outside of the court on the wrong sides playing the ball!
 

PMChambers

Hall of Fame
Weird scenario that happened when I played an Olympic doubles silver medalist a few years ago in local league. He was waiting to hit a smash at the net when my ball bounced on his side and then went back into the net on his side. Needless to say he threw his toys of the cot. Now, a hypothetical question ... can one play the ball after it had bounced the first time into the net but before it had bounced a second time?
Yes, happens every now and again but rare. It instant win, unplayable
 
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