Berdych- best groundstrokes in tennis
- Thread starter davey25
- Start date
davey25
Banned
For the record I dont think he does or even close to it. Right now the best ground games in mens tennis on an average taking into account all surfaces I would say are:
1. Nadal
2. Soderling
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Berdych
Healthy Del Potro and healthy Davydenko are ahead of Berdych too.
1. Nadal
2. Soderling
3. Murray
4. Djokovic
5. Berdych
Healthy Del Potro and healthy Davydenko are ahead of Berdych too.
thalivest
Banned
Wimbledon final was how he usually plays. Nadal is just too good for him. Did you actually think Berdych was going to beat Nadal just because he got past a horribly playing Federer and a mediocre Djokovic.
If he had Nadal's draw he never would have been anywhere near the Wimbledon final. How he played in the early rounds Haase or Petzscher probably take him out. And if he somehow survives them he goes out to an in form Soderling in the quarters.
lonux
Hall of Fame
You're blinded by your love for Nadal I see. I'm not even going to try to tell you the truth - you will deny it anyway.
thalivest
Banned
The truth is Nadal owns Berdych and kicks his ass everytime. That is the truth. I wouldnt say that about a player this wasnt true of. For instance I wouldnt say Soderling and Djokovic are easy opponents for Nadal with nothing to hurt him with like Berdych just because I like Nadal.
lonux
Hall of Fame
You forgot Berdych has finally found his true level, unlike the past. Seems he couldn't cope with the nerves in the final, and that's why he blew it. Nadal didn't own Berdych - Berdych handed Nadal the win.
Time will tell if Berdych will once be able to deal with pressure - if not, too bad - if he is able to do that, I see him winning a slam.
gold soundz
Professional
I'd put Federer second.
You do realise that Thalivest is probably the only decent, and objectional Nadal fan on TW right?
thalivest
Banned
Sorry when someone beat you 8 times in a row in straight sets it is no fluke. Nadal is just way too good for Berdych, period. We can revisit this discussion if Berdych even shows he can take a freaking set off Nadal.
And by your logic we could say Berdych didnt beat Federer or even Djokovic- Federer handed Berdych the win. Federer played possibly the worst match he has ever played at Wimbledon. That seems to be a consensus of virtually everyone. Do you really think the way Berdych played this years Wimbledon would have ever put the Federer of 2003-2009 at Wimbledon? And Djokovic was pretty abysmal in the semis too for that matter. Berdych nearly went out to a couple no names in the early rounds. He wasnt ever unbeatable.
LOL. Berdych is the biggest fluke in tennis history. Just because he beat an old man Federer and out of sorts Djokovic, people overrated him. Too bad Murray wasn't in his half. That would have been a beat down.
Funny how Murray can't even win a set against a Federer down in the dumps in 2008 at the US open. Or old man Federer this year at AO. Murray is just incapable of winning a slam at the moment. No excuses. he had an easier draw than Berdych and still couldn't make the finals.
Beating Nadal on grass is easy now? Murray fought like a true champion in the semi's.
Btw, ask Roger who he thinks will reach a new milestone in 2010, hint: it isn't Berdych.
You're putting down Berdych's run to the finals like he didn't deserve it. you're also jealous that Murray hasn't beaten Federer in a slam whilst berdych has. Deal with it. Murray has proven to lose to guys he should comfortably beat. I would actually say that Murray would have lost to Federer this year at Wimbledon.
So, let's consider this -- all other things remaining constant except Nadal no where in the picture, and Murray actually reached the final. You think Berdych would have beaten him? I have a very hard time believing that.
davey25
Banned
Berdych played the tennis of his life but also lucked out to be in the easier half at Wimbledon this year. A half with a badly off form Federer and Djokovic who isnt a big threat on grass. Nadal's half was loaded with an in form Murray and a very confident Soderling, along with quite a few others playing well. Berdych would not have beaten Nadal, Murray, or Soderling at Wimbledon this year IMO. And Murray would have easily beaten Federer the way both played at this years Wimbledon. Poor Murray was unlucky to run into an on fire Federer in the U.S Open and Australian Open finals they met at.
I would rate the performances at this years Wimbledon:
1. Nadal
2. Murray
3. Soderling (though could be argued #2 over Murray)
4. Berdych
5. Tsonga
6. Djokovic
7. Haase
8. Petzscher
9. Ferrer
10. Federer
Pretty accurate post. What Anaconda doesn't realize is that beating an old man Federer is nothing great. Lol, Hewitt did it just a couple of weeks back. Berdych played great two weeks but was never beating Nadal or a Murray. The winner of this semifinal was always winning the final.
davey25
Banned
here is a certain Berdychtard who seems certain Berdych has the best groundstrokes in tennis.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=335615&page=2
Lets see:
-Djokovic doesnt have a feared forehand when he is playing well.
-Del Potro's groundstrokes are not as clean as Berdych's.
-Berdych with Federer or Nadal's court coverage would instantly go from an occasional top 10 player (so far) to "unbeatable"
-Soderling is inconsistent off the ground but Berdych is not.
Comedy gold.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=335615&page=2
Lets see:
-Djokovic doesnt have a feared forehand when he is playing well.
-Del Potro's groundstrokes are not as clean as Berdych's.
-Berdych with Federer or Nadal's court coverage would instantly go from an occasional top 10 player (so far) to "unbeatable"
-Soderling is inconsistent off the ground but Berdych is not.
Comedy gold.
davey25
Banned
Yes I agree. The tournament took place in the bottom half really, especialy the semifinal. The top half was like the B side going on at the same time. If Berdych had beat Federer at Wimbeldon even last year it would have been something significant, but beating Federer right now isnt a big deal as he appears in a free fall at the moment and is losing right and left to anyone. Even Falla would have beaten Federer in 4 sets at this Wimbledon if he didnt choke.
davey25
Banned
Del Potro and Davydenko playing their best easily do.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Here's the way I see it:
This kind of topic will always vary depending on the point in time we are referring to, I'm not gonna take in account overall achievements, I'm just gonna go with the "peak" level factor. I know it's overdone and a rather stupid term but I think these standings are way different to the ones done based on rankings, slam performance and how used we are to the players being at the top.
So I'm gonna go with this:
1.Djokovic - this guy has a Balcanic temperament, thus why he has underachieved at slams, but if he strictly talk about groundstrokes here, he is at the top for me. At his best, he is simply unplayable, he can defend as well as attack. Both his forehand and backhand are the most vicious groundstrokes on the tour right now. The shame is that we can't enjoy them right now, this year due to Novak's continuous problems. Once, he had the best backhand on the tour by far but things have changed in that regard lately. That open stance forehand is pretty legendary.
2.Federer: what's there to say here?...sure, the backhand can be considered a liability, but it's done more good than bad for Federer in his career IMO, and Roger has one of the better one handers on the tour and it has been that way for most of his career.
3.Soderling: Well, in the last year or so we have been proved why. He is not the most consistent of them all, but he's getting there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AEGMspr18
From the second set onwards we have a clinic.
4. Nadal. Based on current form, I'd probably put him in front of Soderling here, but I don't want to be biased based on recent results. He has gotten very good, he is so solid with his backhand, it's pretty incredible. The forehand is as good as ever and I'm only putting him behind Soderling because Nadal's groundshots don't work that well on hard courts. Sure, he won the AO, one year ago, but that was mostly due to his astounding defending abilities, in both the semi and final.
5. Gulbis - what's there to say?...just look at his best performances and you'll understand. He hasn't quite had his breakthrough, but he'll get there if he puts a bit more dedication into it. Both sides are so powerful, there's plenty of variety, can hit pretty much everywhere on the court and as hard as Soderling even.
6. Del Potro: Sure, the CC forehand has caught everyone's attention and many will put him much higher in these standings, but I won't cave in. Del Potro won his USO, not only because of his groundstrokes, and anyone who has been watching his progress in the two years leading to his win at Flushing Meddow will understand where I'm hitting at. One thing he is impressing with is the versatility on his backhand side.
7. Berdych: Flatest shots you'll ever see when he goes for it. Lately he's been playing more controlled and has been way more patient which has led to some good results for him. He's still progressing and I don't think this Wimbledon final will be the last of him. Also should be noted that Berdych in his heyday (his choking days, as people refer to him) had the smallest net clearance level on average on the tour, and that showed in the number of UE's he made. Hits a very clean ball, backhand can improve a little IMO.
8. Nalbandian: Well, if you don't know the reasons why, just please escort yourself out of this forum.
9. Wawrinka: Best one hander on tour, and a very strong forehand, too bad he is mentally weaker than most players ranked near him, higher or lower.
This kind of topic will always vary depending on the point in time we are referring to, I'm not gonna take in account overall achievements, I'm just gonna go with the "peak" level factor. I know it's overdone and a rather stupid term but I think these standings are way different to the ones done based on rankings, slam performance and how used we are to the players being at the top.
So I'm gonna go with this:
1.Djokovic - this guy has a Balcanic temperament, thus why he has underachieved at slams, but if he strictly talk about groundstrokes here, he is at the top for me. At his best, he is simply unplayable, he can defend as well as attack. Both his forehand and backhand are the most vicious groundstrokes on the tour right now. The shame is that we can't enjoy them right now, this year due to Novak's continuous problems. Once, he had the best backhand on the tour by far but things have changed in that regard lately. That open stance forehand is pretty legendary.
2.Federer: what's there to say here?...sure, the backhand can be considered a liability, but it's done more good than bad for Federer in his career IMO, and Roger has one of the better one handers on the tour and it has been that way for most of his career.
3.Soderling: Well, in the last year or so we have been proved why. He is not the most consistent of them all, but he's getting there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6AEGMspr18
From the second set onwards we have a clinic.
4. Nadal. Based on current form, I'd probably put him in front of Soderling here, but I don't want to be biased based on recent results. He has gotten very good, he is so solid with his backhand, it's pretty incredible. The forehand is as good as ever and I'm only putting him behind Soderling because Nadal's groundshots don't work that well on hard courts. Sure, he won the AO, one year ago, but that was mostly due to his astounding defending abilities, in both the semi and final.
5. Gulbis - what's there to say?...just look at his best performances and you'll understand. He hasn't quite had his breakthrough, but he'll get there if he puts a bit more dedication into it. Both sides are so powerful, there's plenty of variety, can hit pretty much everywhere on the court and as hard as Soderling even.
6. Del Potro: Sure, the CC forehand has caught everyone's attention and many will put him much higher in these standings, but I won't cave in. Del Potro won his USO, not only because of his groundstrokes, and anyone who has been watching his progress in the two years leading to his win at Flushing Meddow will understand where I'm hitting at. One thing he is impressing with is the versatility on his backhand side.
7. Berdych: Flatest shots you'll ever see when he goes for it. Lately he's been playing more controlled and has been way more patient which has led to some good results for him. He's still progressing and I don't think this Wimbledon final will be the last of him. Also should be noted that Berdych in his heyday (his choking days, as people refer to him) had the smallest net clearance level on average on the tour, and that showed in the number of UE's he made. Hits a very clean ball, backhand can improve a little IMO.
8. Nalbandian: Well, if you don't know the reasons why, just please escort yourself out of this forum.
9. Wawrinka: Best one hander on tour, and a very strong forehand, too bad he is mentally weaker than most players ranked near him, higher or lower.
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muzza123
Banned
Oh yes, Davy hits a clean one! Neither Davy and Delpo generate the "easy power" that Birdman does, though.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Like I said, I overlooked consistency when I made those standings, if I would've kept that in mind, there would be a Nalbandian sitting on that number 5 spot.
Since Gulbis's been on tour I've only seen him really peform in 4 tournaments, 2 of which were rather small and insignificant, but he has impressed me enough. The potential is there.
I hope we get to see this guy on all cilinders one day.
PSNELKE
Legend
1. Rafael Nadal
2. Robin Soderling
3. Roger Federer
4. Juan Martin del Potro
5. Andy Murray
6. Novak Djokovic
7. Marin Cilic
8. Tomas Berdych
9. David Nalbandian
10.Nikolay Davydenko
Gulbis isn´t even close to the Top10 here cause he shows his skills pretty infrequently.
My Top10 isn´t based on skills they showed in a few great matches.
Guys like Gulbis are to inconsistent or are UE machines and don´t deserve a spot in the Top10 here.
Wawrinka has a great 1HBH but he´s mentally weak. IMO
2. Robin Soderling
3. Roger Federer
4. Juan Martin del Potro
5. Andy Murray
6. Novak Djokovic
7. Marin Cilic
8. Tomas Berdych
9. David Nalbandian
10.Nikolay Davydenko
Gulbis isn´t even close to the Top10 here cause he shows his skills pretty infrequently.
My Top10 isn´t based on skills they showed in a few great matches.
Guys like Gulbis are to inconsistent or are UE machines and don´t deserve a spot in the Top10 here.
Wawrinka has a great 1HBH but he´s mentally weak. IMO
yep, pretty much.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Btw, as for other rankings in this thread or not, I would object against these players that are being placed in the Top10:
1.Murray: you can't, you simply can't put him in here, you have to be really crazy and sort of missing the point. :?
2.Davydenko: if you've seen this guy at his lowest point you'll understand why. His ground game is based around timing and how fast he gets to balls and how early he takes them on the rise, that's great skills but hasn't got much to do with raw hitting of the ball.
3.Roddick: I mean common, I would be more indignated if someone put Andy in here rather than Murray.
4.Tsonga: If we talk forehand here, yes, he is definitely Top10 but his backhand is too weak and inconsistent.
5. Verdasco: same thing, the forehand is as good as it gets but the backhand is just such a letdown at times, it's even technically flawed IMO. He sort of takes a step and then pushes it when he hits it cross court, really strange.
6.Cilic: I mean, sure, he can hit a ball, but he really makes a shanking Federer look very good at times. I've tried to figure him out but I just can't. I think he relies a lot on timing and how he gets to the balls, I can't really explain, it's really strange. He can be a sharp shooter at times tho, I'll give him that.
Well, those are the guys near the Top 10, if there's more that spring to my mind I'll edit.
1.Murray: you can't, you simply can't put him in here, you have to be really crazy and sort of missing the point. :?
2.Davydenko: if you've seen this guy at his lowest point you'll understand why. His ground game is based around timing and how fast he gets to balls and how early he takes them on the rise, that's great skills but hasn't got much to do with raw hitting of the ball.
3.Roddick: I mean common, I would be more indignated if someone put Andy in here rather than Murray.
4.Tsonga: If we talk forehand here, yes, he is definitely Top10 but his backhand is too weak and inconsistent.
5. Verdasco: same thing, the forehand is as good as it gets but the backhand is just such a letdown at times, it's even technically flawed IMO. He sort of takes a step and then pushes it when he hits it cross court, really strange.
6.Cilic: I mean, sure, he can hit a ball, but he really makes a shanking Federer look very good at times. I've tried to figure him out but I just can't. I think he relies a lot on timing and how he gets to the balls, I can't really explain, it's really strange. He can be a sharp shooter at times tho, I'll give him that.
Well, those are the guys near the Top 10, if there's more that spring to my mind I'll edit.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
The only shot that Murray was good enough to come near something like this would be his backhand. But that's only a single shot, and he only did it well when he hit it down the line, and only on certain balls that came from his opponent.
BTW, I haven't really seen this shot from him lately. :?
BTW, I haven't really seen this shot from him lately. :?
davey25
Banned
I think Cilic when he is really "on" is the hardest hitter in the game though, even harder than Del Potro and Gulbis who would probably be next. Soderling and Berdych might be next if were are talking just power off the ground alone.
Murray's groundstrokes overall are very effective. It isnt just about power remember. His backhand overall is one of the best in the game, and his forehand while ridiculed and needing improvement is effective against most just not so much against Federer or Nadal if they are in form.
Murray's groundstrokes overall are very effective. It isnt just about power remember. His backhand overall is one of the best in the game, and his forehand while ridiculed and needing improvement is effective against most just not so much against Federer or Nadal if they are in form.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Cilic has a Federer forehand btw.
I've seen people refraining from making the comparison but I won't hold back. He definitely reminded me of Fed in Australia.
But goodness me, can that guy shank a ball or what?
I've seen people refraining from making the comparison but I won't hold back. He definitely reminded me of Fed in Australia.
But goodness me, can that guy shank a ball or what?
davey25
Banned
Cilic in all his matches with Del Potro so far has had many more winners and when he loses it is through alot more unforced errors. If even Del Potro cant truly outslug him I am not sure who can. Of course that doesnt change the fact he is a mess right now, going through a painful sophomore slump. I hope he gets it back together. He seems like a nice kid and while I am not a fan of one dimensional bashers generally his power is exciting when he is in form.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Like I said, Gulbis hasn't made his breakthrough yet. His only good, bigger tournament was Rome if I'm not mistaken and I guess that wasn't enough for people to remember him, but that's ok, it's normal.
But yes, I'm not holding back from putting him up there.
PSNELKE
Legend
Right!
If he starts to play like he did in Rome and makes his long awaited breakthorugh he´ll definately have a TOP5 spot in my list.
Though I doubt he´ll ever fulfill his whole potential cause he doesn´t concentrate enough on tennis.
Gulbis did well at Rome but then lost in the first round at RG. That's what his career has been far. He does show some potential but when it matters he loses badly.
Li Ching Yuen
Legend
Not to look for any excuses for him but I think he played injured in that match and eventually retired.
borg number one
Legend
Berdych, like Soderling, Murray, Del Potro, and even Federer these days, has a consistency problem on his groundstrokes. Nadal, in my opinion, has had the best groundstrokes in the Game, overall. I think he'll find a solution to the U.S. Open, perhaps this year. Plus, he played great in that '09 AO tourney, beating a red hot Verdasco, then Federer in that great final. When Nadal is healthy, there's just no place to go with his groundies. Plus, he can go from defense to offense so quickly when in form.
the best groundstrokes are those that win points under tremendous pressure, and yes, Nadal's groundies are currently the best on clay & grass.
Fate Archer
Hall of Fame
Don't know if you're being sarcastic, but I had this exact same impression too.
His timing on contact seems pretty similar to Fed sometimes, besides, he uses an extended arm with a mild bend, much like Fed.
Looking at imaginary contact point.
Closed stance footwork
I think the wrist usage and pronation on his forehand are very similar aswell, the only difference that I can quickly spot is his follow-through, which ends around the shoulder most of the time.
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Li Ching Yuen
Legend
^I was not being sarcastic. I really find those two's forehands to be awfully similar.
