big serve blocking return

[johnmccabe]

when you meet a guy serves bigger than you are accustomed to, what's the high percentage return? I tried to chip it and block it use smaller to no swing. my racquet would get pushed over and ball sails high and wide. I think my body was moving forward instead of leaning back. I tried to lock my wrist in L shape and squeeze. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Hit 'em clean]

Here are some posssiblities...

1) Your racquet is too light... if they have a really big serve a lighter racquet is really going to be prone to fluttering, twisting back or open
2) You might not be making contact out in front... just like with a volley at net you have more leverage contacting the ball in front of your body than out to the side
3) Racquet face might be too open at contact. You either have it too open or common mistake is people pull the handle, but not the whole racquet leaving the hoop behind which then opens to the sky.
4) You might be chopping down and/or across the ball... leads to a lot of mishits and not correct technique... path should be only slightly down and/or across but mostly level out through the ball. Pros can get away with more down/across action because they are good enough to do so. Simplify you swing path for better contact.
5) You still might be swinging too much or taking it back too far... which can result in either issue 2 or 3... or both. Instead of swinging... you only need a little fwd momentum by stepping in toward the serve while volleying/blocking it. If they truly hit big serves you just use the pace they give you.

 

[johnmccabe]

Here are some posssiblities...

1) Your racquet is too light... if they have a really big serve a lighter racquet is really going to be prone to fluttering, twisting back or open
2) You might not be making contact out in front... just like with a volley at net you have more leverage contacting the ball in front of your body than out to the side
3) Racquet face might be too open at contact. You either have it too open or common mistake is people pull the handle, but not the whole racquet leaving the hoop behind which then opens to the sky.
4) You might be chopping down and/or across the ball... leads to a lot of mishits and not correct technique... path should be only slightly down and/or across but mostly level out through the ball. Pros can get away with more down/across action because they are good enough to do so. Simplify you swing path for better contact.
5) You still might be swinging too much or taking it back too far... which can result in either issue 2 or 3... or both. Instead of swinging... you only need a little fwd momentum by stepping in toward the serve while volleying/blocking it. If they truly hit big serves you just use the pace they give you.

great advice! I'm definitely guilty of 2 and 4.
don't quite understand 3. is it somewhat similar to forehand groundstroke wrist lag, handle leading racquet head? but in this case it would be a mistake instead of advantage.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Using the VCore 95? Weight (325+ grams) should be fine even tho the swingweight is a bit on the low side.

You may be contacting the ball way off your sweetspot. But firming up the grip might not help. The ball is already gone by the time your racket actually twists. Just go with a relax grip and firm it up a bit just prior to making contact with the ball

Perhaps the swing or position of your racket is off because you are moving your head during the contact phase. Be sure to fix your gaze at the expected contact point or in front of the contact point prior to impact. Keep your head still before and after contact so that you are not sabotaging your swing.

 

[johnmccabe]

Using the VCore 95? Weight (325+ grams) should be fine even tho the swingweight is a bit on the low side.

You may be contacting the ball way off your sweetspot. But firming up the grip might not help. The ball is already gone by the time your racket actually twists. Just go with a relax grip and firm it up a bit just prior to making contact with the ball

Perhaps the swing or position of your racket is off because you are moving your head during the contact phase. Be sure to fix your gaze at the expected contact point or in front of the contact point prior to impact. Keep your head still before and after contact so that you are not sabotaging your swing.

I switched between blade and vcore. didn't make much of a difference. it's most likely my technique problem. tracking ball faster than what I normally receive has always been very challenging for me. It feels like my eye movement has to speed up more and more as the ball gets closer and closer. I can fix my gaze near impact for groundstrokes most of the time. but for faster serves, god it was frustrating. It feel like the contact point is way out of my area of vision.

 

[ballmachineguy]

I tried to lock my wrist in L shape and squeeze. What am I doing wrong?

The first sentence is the answer to the second.
That sounded like ancient Chinese proverb. Haha.

 

[Harry_Wild]

my racquet would get pushed over and ball sails high and wide.

Use a player's frame/racquet- 310-335 grams! Meet it in the center of the racquet helps too!

 

[nyta2]

when you meet a guy serves bigger than you are accustomed to, what's the high percentage return? I tried to chip it and block it use smaller to no swing. my racquet would get pushed over and ball sails high and wide. I think my body was moving forward instead of leaning back. I tried to lock my wrist in L shape and squeeze. What am I doing wrong?

 

[ubercat]

When I meet a big server I alternate between 3 returns. The 2 standing deep are:

Block lob - either slice or TS ideally to BH - this is a must have to neutralise S&V and go over net man in dubs

Compact TS with a 30 degree swing path.

Third one is for if he has the slider.

Use walking footwork to move forward diagonally and slice. Use a hi take back but a relatively shallow downwards swing. Don't worry about which foot is forward when you contact the ball as long as you're moving forward it should go.

Actually now i think about is even if he doesn't have the slider it's a good idea. Makes him hesitate because he doesn't know if he's getting the lob or a low ball that might drop short.

If i get caught to the body I generally try and pull off a short slice. Because you've probably been surprised and that is a shot you can make with late contact. The keys are watching the ball closely and making sure racket face is pointing to the right place.

If you r contacting late i would suggest dropping back extra 2 ft for the deep returning position.

For the walking footwork 1 you can pretty much start moving forward as he hits the ball. You just need to be tightly focused on working out if it's going to forehand or backhand as you move in. Yeah you might get Aced occasionally but it's worth it for the uncertainty you create.

 

[johnmccabe]

The first sentence is the answer to the second.
That sounded like ancient Chinese proverb. Haha.

I meant locking wrist so that forearm and handle form "L" shape. I thought that's recommended for volley and hence a chip return. that is incorrect?

 

[ballmachineguy]

I meant locking wrist so that forearm and handle form "L" shape. I thought that's recommended for volley and hence a chip return. that is incorrect?

I assume we are talking forehand side. If using a more modern forehand, yes, you will have an L shape. It should happen naturally as your hand goes toward the ball. It was the terms “locking” and “squeeze” that worried me. We are talking a big server and you need quick reactions to the ball jumping a couple inches higher and skidding a couple lower. You can’t lock your wrist or squeeze the grip without other muscles in your arm - the ones that help align the racquet head to the incoming ball - contracting and making good contact more difficult. When you squeeze and the ball misses the sweet spot - clunk! You need to trust that you are doing things correctly and let your body work the way it was designed. Tightening up is a way of thinking you are trying hard, but it will sabotage your shot. YOU are over 100lbs and your racquet is laid back to where it can’t be pushed back any further. IT is a hollow, fuzzy, little ball.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I switched between blade and vcore. didn't make much of a difference. it's most likely my technique problem. tracking ball faster than what I normally receive has always been very challenging for me. It feels like my eye movement has to speed up more and more as the ball gets closer and closer. I can fix my gaze near impact for groundstrokes most of the time. but for faster serves, god it was frustrating. It feel like the contact point is way out of my area of vision.

It ok to fix your gaze somewhat forward of your expected contact point as Andre Agassi did. AA was possibly the best serve returner of his generation. By fixing his gaze forward of the CP, he says that the ball seemed larger (before it disappeared into the "invisible zone'). The AA gaze technique actually requires less head movement to set up than the RF technique. Roger is still moving his head very shortly before contact. Andre has stopped his head movement a little bit sooner.

An alternate gaze strategy is one that I adopted from the gaze technique of elite cricket batsman. When my serve returns was off I would often switch to this alternate technique.

The idea behind this is to track the ball long enough to determine its approximate bounce location. So, after your split step, you are tracking the ball at least from the servers racket to a point somewhere close to where it crosses the net. You should be able to determine its approx bounce location in this manner.

Before the ball reaches that bounce location, quickly shift your gaze there -- focus your eyes on that area (laying, in wait, for the ball to bounce). This is pretty much the way that lines persons call the lines. They stop watching the ball, at some point, and focus on the part of the line where they expect the ball to encroach.

Once you see the ball bounce, start tracking it again for a short time and then fix your gaze near your expected CP (or somewhere forward of your CP as AA did).

Whenever I would get into a return slump, I would switch to this alternate "cricket" gaze strategy. It usually worked wonders.

 

[Bender]

Actually, getting good reaction volley practice is a good way to improve the block return. My block return used to be garbage until I started playing super aggressively at net and opponents would try crush balls in my direction off returns in doubles.

After a while you only really focus on protecting your body and the ball just lands in without you having to try get it back in.

 

[johnmccabe]

It ok to fix your gaze somewhat forward of your expected contact point as Andre Agassi did. AA was possibly the best serve returner of his generation. By fixing his gaze forward of the CP, he says that the ball seemed larger (before it disappeared into the "invisible zone'). The AA gaze technique actually requires less head movement to set up than the RF technique. Roger is still moving his head very shortly before contact. Andre has stopped his head movement a little bit sooner.

An alternate gaze strategy is one that I adopted from the gaze technique of elite cricket batsman. When my serve returns was off I would often switch to this alternate technique.

The idea behind this is to track the ball long enough to determine its approximate bounce location. So, after your split step, you are tracking the ball at least from the servers racket to a point somewhere close to where it crosses the net. You should be able to determine its approx bounce location in this manner.

Before the ball reaches that bounce location, quickly shift your gaze there -- focus your eyes on that area (laying, in wait, for the ball to bounce). This is pretty much the way that lines persons call the lines. They stop watching the ball, at some point, and focus on the part of the line where they expect the ball to encroach.

Once you see the ball bounce, start tracking it again for a short time and then fix your gaze near your expected CP (or somewhere forward of your CP as AA did).

Whenever I would get into a return slump, I would switch to this alternate "cricket" gaze strategy. It usually worked wonders.

amazing...people never hit the ball on court (line judge) can actually teach us something important!

 

[HuusHould]

when you meet a guy serves bigger than you are accustomed to, what's the high percentage return? I tried to chip it and block it use smaller to no swing. my racquet would get pushed over and ball sails high and wide. I think my body was moving forward instead of leaning back. I tried to lock my wrist in L shape and squeeze. What am I doing wrong?

To me it sounds like you've got the right idea. If you are in fact getting onto the front foot that is. The two things you've told me are the foundation of what I tell my students. Followed by the timing of weight transfer into the shot, contact position (relative to their body) and swing path (both back and forward)
The surface can affect the effectiveness of this technique, which is of course related to the bounce characteristics of the surface. It's good for a surface that bounces fast and low and preferably true. What I've found it's most difficult to execute on is a surface where the standard bounce is high and untrue. It was a low quality actually quite fast clay court.
I think if you're hitting too high even though you're contacting the ball in the right position relative to your body (and even if you aren't you can improvise), then you can try closing the racquet face off a bit as you swing through. If they're going too low then open it up. So a slight internal or external rotation of your forearm.

 

[Hit 'em clean]

great advice! I'm definitely guilty of 2 and 4.
don't quite understand 3. is it somewhat similar to forehand groundstroke wrist lag, handle leading racquet head? but in this case it would be a mistake instead of advantage.

What I mentioned in issue number three is similar, but yes it leads to bad things in the volley. As an example... if hold your racquet completely vertical with your arm completely and directly out to your side (parallel with your shoulders) with a continental grip and strings facing fwd. Pull the racquet handle fwd leading with the butt cap and you'll feel your forearm want to rotate open (backwards) as the weight of the racquet falls/leans back and you'll see that strings open the sky. That's what a lot of people do when they volley poorly. The further you take the racquet back... the more likely you are to 'swing' or 'pull' and then racquet tips/leans backward/open.

A little open is fine, but a lot and you'll experience a loss of directional control and/or weak, high balls.

 

[jmc3367]

Also remember that many times a big server is going to win the point if you do everything correct. Be patient and don't get frustrated when trying to return. If you use a two handed backhand make the left hand brace for the block/punch return and get the racket in front. When I return against a big server I actually start with my racket cheating to my backhand side so I can keep it in front of me and block/punch the return. If it comes to my forehand I am chipping it back. Again the key is to take a few punches and wait for the chance.

 

[ubercat]

BTW it can be done. I ve hung in there with 5.0 servers. Of course it didn't help much because the rest of their game blew me off the court. Basically they hit crushing rally shots finished at net and made it look easy

 

[Morch Us]

Did you move back far enough?

when you meet a guy serves bigger than you are accustomed to, what's the high percentage return?

 

[Nellie]

A blocked return is a like a volley but not. When I volley, I am leading with the handle and the racquet head trails so that face is open (volley is generally hitting a slower dropping ball, so the open face reflects path of the ball). A serve is typically travelling level or even going up, so opening the face of the racquet will cause the ball to pop up. Try using a vertical or even closed racquet face when blocking back serves.