Bjorn Borg was the ultimate pusher! Prove me wrong.
- Thread starter MiamiWeekendWarrior
- Start date
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Borg and Vilas barely take a breath after that, lol. Like nothing even happened in that point.
It says something about the intensity of the rally, sure, but it also says a lot about the fitness of both men, and also their mental focus.
if you don't fully focus on hitting groundstrokes perfectly with the utter pieces of crap these guys were using, the ball will go sideways. Especially with the spin they were putting on the ball.
It says something about the intensity of the rally, sure, but it also says a lot about the fitness of both men, and also their mental focus.
if you don't fully focus on hitting groundstrokes perfectly with the utter pieces of crap these guys were using, the ball will go sideways. Especially with the spin they were putting on the ball.
Winners or Errors
Legend
Um, Borg was the one making aggressive moves in that point. Not sure what you’re watching. Hard to hit through anyone with a wood racquet on super slow RG clay of the 1970s.
Tshooter
G.O.A.T.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol I mean did I lie?
Not like today’s snowflakes with the medical timeouts.
I’ve quite literally seen today’s players look more gassed after an unreturned serve. Crazy focus.
The Fedfather
Legend
Borg was going for his shots there but them moonballs though. Tennis changed drastically because of new technology.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
Many of those moonballs were like 20 feet above the net and still landed inside the service line!!!
I saw both Borg and McEnroe play on hard courts (Borg 2.0 after retirement). I was shocked that they both looked like pushers, particularly since Lendl and Agassi were there. It was like a different sport they were playing.
No question Borg would be great today, but not with that game.
No question Borg would be great today, but not with that game.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
You think 30mph groundstrokes that clear the net by 20 feet and still land inside the service line would work in this era?
I've seen both Murray and Borg in person, and there is zero comparison in how they hit the ball. None. If you believe they're the same, it's because you've only watched them on TV.
Again, no disrespect to Borg, Tilder or Laver... It's not "recency bias". The game is functionally different than what it was when guys played with and built their game around wood rackets. They'll all be great champions if they played now. And their games would be significantly different. Period.
Are you being intentionally naive? How would a modern player look playing on extra slow clay and hitting with a wooden racquet?
Winners or Errors
Legend
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
You haven't seen him on faster surfaces, I guess. By the way, have you seen the other guy in that rally?
My problem is that it's always framed like, "The old man would have to adjust to today's game."
Ok, and what would happen if you put these "all I know is the baseline" new class in Borg's era? Dare I say, they might actually have to develop the footwork and net skills that Laver, Rosewall had. *gasp*
Ok, and what would happen if you put these "all I know is the baseline" new class in Borg's era? Dare I say, they might actually have to develop the footwork and net skills that Laver, Rosewall had. *gasp*
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
The thing is, these new guys are used to 90mph balls coming at them almost every shot. I'm sure it would not be that hard to develop a net game when the speed of the balls coming at them suddenly dropped to 40 or 50mph.
All the greats are blessed with amazing hand-eye coordination. They would adjust. It would ONLY be an issue if Borg lacked stamina, but it's Borg... he was stamina. He would be fine.
Sunny014
Legend
Borg would not have as much stamina now as he had back then, now Tennis is much faster and thats why players get tired.
If you jog at 5 kmph then you wont get tired, but if you jog at 7.5 kmph then you will get tired, that is an example of more intensity getting you tired, today's game is much more power oriented and energy sapping
If you jog at 5 kmph then you wont get tired, but if you jog at 7.5 kmph then you will get tired, that is an example of more intensity getting you tired, today's game is much more power oriented and energy sapping
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
He attempted a comeback after only a couple of years being gone. The game changed dramatically during that time and he was not able adjust. He didn't win a single match. He even tried with a modern racquet. The greats are great in their time. Trying to predict how they would do in a completely different era is impossible, although we did see a bit of it with Borg, and it was not good.
MiamiWeekendWarrior
Hall of Fame
No, he wasn't. Like Lendl, he was a transitional player although Borg was closer to a classic game than a modern one. Lendl was definitely more of a modern player.
Sunny014
Legend
Except Federer no other ATG can adapt to various eras and various equipments.
Hand eye co-ordination par excellence !!!
BlueB
Legend
We have seen him with a modern racquet. It didn't work.
A lot of silly comments here.
First, Borg was hands down, one of the fittest people ever to play the game.
So, yes, I expect he would not be getting tired playing the 'modern' game.
There also seems to be a tendency here to equate hitting hard with the 'modern game'
If you are talking aggressive baseline play, rather than old school S&V, well that was Connors....then Borg, Lendl, Agassi, etc. All were incredibly solid from the back court and they upset the serve & volley dynamics that ruled when 3 of 4 GS events were on grass.
Borg was also able to adapt his game INCREDIBLY well to different surfaces. So watching him on clay is not the same as grass or hard courts. He could rally to death on clay with Vilas, cream Connors on grass and hold off hard charging McEnroe. Different surfaces, different playing styles.
So, I strongly suspect if you put in him in a time machine, so he showed up today at 22yrs old with a modern racquet, he would hold his own. However, I do suspect that the traditional S&V guys might struggle a bit, given surfaces are slower across the board.
First, Borg was hands down, one of the fittest people ever to play the game.
So, yes, I expect he would not be getting tired playing the 'modern' game.
There also seems to be a tendency here to equate hitting hard with the 'modern game'
If you are talking aggressive baseline play, rather than old school S&V, well that was Connors....then Borg, Lendl, Agassi, etc. All were incredibly solid from the back court and they upset the serve & volley dynamics that ruled when 3 of 4 GS events were on grass.
Borg was also able to adapt his game INCREDIBLY well to different surfaces. So watching him on clay is not the same as grass or hard courts. He could rally to death on clay with Vilas, cream Connors on grass and hold off hard charging McEnroe. Different surfaces, different playing styles.
So, I strongly suspect if you put in him in a time machine, so he showed up today at 22yrs old with a modern racquet, he would hold his own. However, I do suspect that the traditional S&V guys might struggle a bit, given surfaces are slower across the board.
CyBorg
Legend
Why do you lie. Borg was retired 8 years. Didn't play a full schedule for about 10. Meanwhile the 80s was a decade of the greatest transformation the sport ever faced. And he's supposed to just go back to being elite?
Thank you! A voice of reason.
Borg, Connors, and Lendl would do great today.
It's Johnny Mac and Edberg who would have to adjust, purely given the surface slow down. But even Mac and Edberg would do well, simply because these kids aren't used to playing against a competent S&V player.
What part of me saying "peak" Borg did you miss?
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Same mental toughness that saw him quit tennis at 26 bc he couldn't beat Mac at the USO.
Imagine if Fed quit tennis after AO'09.
CyBorg
Legend
Myth.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
What's the real reason?
BlueB
Legend
I actually missed all parts of "peak"
Still doubted... He couldn't even win a single match with the new racquet. It's not that he faced the giants of the game in those first rounds.
The "real" reason has been debated endlessly. And, I'm not sure if Borg's ever really made it clear why. At the time, it was viewed as a 'break'. Perhaps a small "tantrum" that he would recover from in short order. He only wanted to play the bigger events, but the rulers of the game were making it next to impossible for him. Maybe he was a little mentally tired, we won't ever know. But the guy had achieved so much and an incredible level of fame and fortune. This is despite his USO shortfall, which I think bothered others more than it ever bothered him as he gave due credit to his opponents.
More on the 'fame' part: It's really very hard to convey what tennis was like in the late 70's/early 80's compared to what it is today. It had taken off in the US like a rocket ship, never to be seen again. TV coverage, million dollar exos, rabid fans...groupies in Borg's case. I think Borg hit the very pinnacle of tennis fame. I think that fan energy later transferred to Germany with Boris and Steffi, but the gas was slowly starting to escape the balloon, generally speaking. Perhaps the 2 weeks of Connors' insane '91 run at the USO hit those levels, but obviously, that was once and done. We have tremendously talented players in the game today, no question. Yet, at the same time, I find it all a bit sterile.
CyBorg
Legend
Yeah sure. Big time pushers. McEnroe, Connors, Borg. All pushers.
CyBorg
Legend
Those of you who want to see a guy really hit hard and flat on red clay, watch Connors at Roland Garros in these years. Or Jose Luis Clerc.
But in spite of some success, they never won the big prize. But these guys (Borg, Vilas) did. In spite of Borg's (apparently not very sexy, to some people) style of big looping strokes, he dominated everyone (note: I should add that I find his style to be very aesthetically pleasing and so do many people).
The looping strokes with the heavy topspin worked. They won matches. Because you could get on that court, with the slow clay, with the little wooden racquet at hand. You can hit as hard and flat as you can, go for big winners and you won't get far. Because guys like Borg will use your pace against you and pass you over and over again.
Some people actually think that no one in that time tried doing that. And if only they had the wisdom of "Miami Weekend Warrior" it would have been lights out for Borg. Give your heads a shake.
But in spite of some success, they never won the big prize. But these guys (Borg, Vilas) did. In spite of Borg's (apparently not very sexy, to some people) style of big looping strokes, he dominated everyone (note: I should add that I find his style to be very aesthetically pleasing and so do many people).
The looping strokes with the heavy topspin worked. They won matches. Because you could get on that court, with the slow clay, with the little wooden racquet at hand. You can hit as hard and flat as you can, go for big winners and you won't get far. Because guys like Borg will use your pace against you and pass you over and over again.
Some people actually think that no one in that time tried doing that. And if only they had the wisdom of "Miami Weekend Warrior" it would have been lights out for Borg. Give your heads a shake.
mxmx
Hall of Fame
Prime Mac would beat anyone.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
He was 36 and had not played professionally for ages. Impressive that he was actually able to hang with these guys.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Disagree. Borg's played a more modern, topspin-based game than Lendl did.
aliceinpains
Rookie
Why did Vilas perform so poorly at Wimbledon?
bobcolbert
Rookie
Because he needed to train a lot to play well on grass. In Australia he arrived 5 or 6 weeks before the start of the tournament and played 7 or 8 hours by day. There is very little time between Roland-Garros and Wimbledon ... He couldn't be ready, and often lost against players less good than those he beat in Melbourne. He had a real chance to win in 1975, when he lost in QF in five sets againts Tanner.
Rozroz
G.O.A.T.
easy to say pushing, did you play with a wooden racket with 65 head?
well i said "if" thats pushing.. but yea i did borg pro was actually my first racquet lol
Ace of Aces
Semi-Pro
Clay court tennis benefited more aesthetically from the new strings than the faster courts. A moonball fest is not good tv.
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