D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
Looking for a reasonable price camera to film my tennis any thoughts
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Ask yourself whether you want mostly to
1) video your matches or
2) take high speed video of your tennis strokes
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=431983
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=405536
Search also Kinovea and dpreview.
High Speed Video for Stroke Analysis. The highest quality for high speed video of strokes are used or left over new stock Casio cameras - models F1 (2008 ), FH20, FH25, FH100(2010). Check costs which have steeply risen for used and left over new stock. My FH100 is excellent for HSV and also does HD video. Unfortunately, I don't know of any current cameras now offered with manual exposure control in high speed video mode.
FH100 sample HSV usually at 240 fps and 1/10,000 sec exposure.
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos
Greg G just found that an older Casio FC150 can also do very fast shutter speeds, see later replies in the above links and his forehand thread. Maybe you can find a used one at a reasonable price as he did.
There are many other HSV cameras that might have fast shutters and take videos with small motion blur but learning what might be out there is not easy. Also, cameras have flaws such as short recording time or poor single frame viewing or editing on the camera itself.
See misc camera models discussed toward the end of the large Casio Camera Thread
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/250245-casio-camera-thread/page__st__750
Maybe the $130 Canon PowerShot ELPH 100 HS reply #755 of the above link is a useful camera at a very low price. ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=31ypqx5pbsE See reply #8 for the Canon Powershot video. I don't know much about this camera.
For just viewing your match I like the old Aiptek Action camera but only the specific model mentioned in the above threads. It has a fast shutter in direct sunlight and does 60 fps. The fast shutter is a very important feature but when you find a camera model that does HSV you will likely have difficulty determining whether the shutter is fast for AUTO exposure control cameras.
1) video your matches or
2) take high speed video of your tennis strokes
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=431983
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=405536
Search also Kinovea and dpreview.
High Speed Video for Stroke Analysis. The highest quality for high speed video of strokes are used or left over new stock Casio cameras - models F1 (2008 ), FH20, FH25, FH100(2010). Check costs which have steeply risen for used and left over new stock. My FH100 is excellent for HSV and also does HD video. Unfortunately, I don't know of any current cameras now offered with manual exposure control in high speed video mode.
FH100 sample HSV usually at 240 fps and 1/10,000 sec exposure.
https://vimeo.com/user6237669/videos
Greg G just found that an older Casio FC150 can also do very fast shutter speeds, see later replies in the above links and his forehand thread. Maybe you can find a used one at a reasonable price as he did.
There are many other HSV cameras that might have fast shutters and take videos with small motion blur but learning what might be out there is not easy. Also, cameras have flaws such as short recording time or poor single frame viewing or editing on the camera itself.
See misc camera models discussed toward the end of the large Casio Camera Thread
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/250245-casio-camera-thread/page__st__750
Maybe the $130 Canon PowerShot ELPH 100 HS reply #755 of the above link is a useful camera at a very low price. ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=31ypqx5pbsE See reply #8 for the Canon Powershot video. I don't know much about this camera.
For just viewing your match I like the old Aiptek Action camera but only the specific model mentioned in the above threads. It has a fast shutter in direct sunlight and does 60 fps. The fast shutter is a very important feature but when you find a camera model that does HSV you will likely have difficulty determining whether the shutter is fast for AUTO exposure control cameras.
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D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
Have you ever used the kodak playsport?
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I have not used the Kodak Playsport. What's the frame rate?
The main question for cameras that do high speed video is how fast is the shutter speed? A fast shutter speed reduces motion blur of the faster things such as the racket and the tennis ball.
Since almost all cameras in high speed video mode use AUTO exposure control and it is very difficult to find information on shutter speed, I look for Youtube videos to display motion blur. An ideal subject is a golf swing in bright direct sunlight when viewed from the side so that the club head is going across the frame. Search: (camera model) + golf + Youtube + ? high speed video etc.
Golf swing in direct sunlight side view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPpScgNstw
(The forward and backward arrows work to advance on go back a single frame.)
Around 16 the club travels maybe 2 feet between frames so it does not appear that the frame rate of this particular video clip is very high, maybe only 60 fps. Not HSV.
At 16 you can see the club head contacting the ball. The motion blur does not look too bad and also the club head might have a velocity of about 100MPH. Shutter speed maybe around 1/2000 sec? Needs a closer view of the club head to actually measure motion blur.
That video is higher resolution than most high speed video cameras. The video also displays Jello Effect distortion by the false bending of the club shaft. The Jello Effect does not look too bad but it should be kept in mind when looking for accuracy in very fast tennis motions.
Features that are important
1) Can you view stop action on the camera?
2) Does it only have a wide angle lens?
3) How does the AUTO control shutter speed work in less light than direct sunlight? [The light level of direct sunlight is roughly 100X that of indoor tennis courts -low indoor lighting levels require slow shutter speeds for all HSV cameras.]
The main question for cameras that do high speed video is how fast is the shutter speed? A fast shutter speed reduces motion blur of the faster things such as the racket and the tennis ball.
Since almost all cameras in high speed video mode use AUTO exposure control and it is very difficult to find information on shutter speed, I look for Youtube videos to display motion blur. An ideal subject is a golf swing in bright direct sunlight when viewed from the side so that the club head is going across the frame. Search: (camera model) + golf + Youtube + ? high speed video etc.
Golf swing in direct sunlight side view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwPpScgNstw
(The forward and backward arrows work to advance on go back a single frame.)
Around 16 the club travels maybe 2 feet between frames so it does not appear that the frame rate of this particular video clip is very high, maybe only 60 fps. Not HSV.
At 16 you can see the club head contacting the ball. The motion blur does not look too bad and also the club head might have a velocity of about 100MPH. Shutter speed maybe around 1/2000 sec? Needs a closer view of the club head to actually measure motion blur.
That video is higher resolution than most high speed video cameras. The video also displays Jello Effect distortion by the false bending of the club shaft. The Jello Effect does not look too bad but it should be kept in mind when looking for accuracy in very fast tennis motions.
Features that are important
1) Can you view stop action on the camera?
2) Does it only have a wide angle lens?
3) How does the AUTO control shutter speed work in less light than direct sunlight? [The light level of direct sunlight is roughly 100X that of indoor tennis courts -low indoor lighting levels require slow shutter speeds for all HSV cameras.]
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TomT
Hall of Fame
Have you checked out gopro yet?
http://gopro.com/
It's impossible to know what you mean by reasonable. The gopros aren't super cheap but they're not unreasonably expensive considering the quality, imo.
D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
the go pro the fish eye is annoying. Also the kodak play sport is 60fps 720p
D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
And Why have the casio camera risen in price? isnt it suppose to go down lol
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
A very fast shutter speed is necessary for small motion blur. Manual exposure control to set the shutter speed is the best for high speed video. Plus other high performance features such as LCD viewing, editing, etc. for high speed video analysis. Buyers with high speed video applications who understand these issues drive up the Casio prices.
aimr75
Hall of Fame
Chas, the pana lumix fz200 does some good high speed video in HD. I shot this at this years AO:
http://youtu.be/-e1gmXf7h54
Just select the HD option on YouTube
http://youtu.be/-e1gmXf7h54
Just select the HD option on YouTube
D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
That looks sweet I might go with this one though Canon PowerShot SX50
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
That is very nice.
Shutter Speed Estimate from Motion Blur. To get an idea of the shutter speed, use the ball diameter for a scale. The ball diameter is spec'ed to be 2.6 inches. There is motion blur mostly in the travel direction but not in the direction perpendicular to the ball's trajectory.
Measure the ball height by placing a piece of paper on the screen and making marks on the paper with a pencil. Measure the ball length with motion blur along the trajectory. I get that the blurred ball is about 1.5 times as long as it is high. With motion blur of the front and back edges it appears 3.9 inches long. The front and back edge each have 0.7" of motion blur.
For a point on an object moving directly across the frame.
Motion Blur = Ball Velocity X Exposure Time
Ball velocity is unknown but can be estimated. Estimate ball velocity at 50 MPH.
Conversion:
100 MPH = 1760"/sec
50 MPH = 880 " / sec
For a 50 MPH ball
0.7" = 880"/sec X Exposure time
Exposure time = 0.7"/ 880"/sec
Exposure Time = 0.0008 sec or about 1/1000 sec.
That is, if the ball had a velocity of 50 MPH the shutter speed in direct sunlight would be about 1/1000 sec. The camera's AUTO exposure control selected a shutter speed of about 1/1000 sec.
The ball velocity could also be measured fairly accurately, but there is an error because the trajectory is not quite perpendicular to the viewing angle of the camera.
(BTW, if you type in "X MPH to ft/sec" in the Google Search box it converts right under the box)
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D
Deleted member 74648
Guest
Hey Chase What do you think of the Canon powershot sx 50hs?
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I don't know. I'd have to spend time doing the searching as I showed how to do above. Suggest that you search for some youtubes for golf...etc...
I just noticed that beernutz posted recently on that model in Other Equipment Forum. Always best to talk to someone who owns one.
Replies #26 & 35 -
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=431983&highlight=canon+powershot
I just noticed that beernutz posted recently on that model in Other Equipment Forum. Always best to talk to someone who owns one.
Replies #26 & 35 -
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=431983&highlight=canon+powershot
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dominikk1985
Legend
you Need at least 30 FPS, better 60+.
Tight Lines
Professional
Why not just use an Iphone 4s or better with a SloPro app (free app to record and view, but need premium to export the video out $3.99) that allows you to record at 60 fps? Cheapest option you already have the phone.
Harry
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