Controlling the contact height on groundstrokes

[MyFearHand]

Isn’t what he says interesting? Most balls are only 2 steps away!
Anyway he shows all types of scenarios and drills to practice them.
I’ll do all these to improve moving to the ball correctly and recovering correctly. I’ve always tended to believe it should come naturally but now I want to do it ‘correctly’ for the first time.

Glad you’re finally understanding that you need to drill footwork. I’ve seen videos on instagram of exd1 and professional athletes trying tennis for the first few times. These people are really athletic and great movers. Usually whoever is teaching them tells them to stay on their toes and keep their feet active. They do a great job at this immediately. But the way they move to the ball looks awkward and wrong, even if they may have amazing straight line speed. This for me immediately proves that the movement isn’t intuitive.

It’s not about getting to the ball as fast as possible, it’s about getting to the ball fast while staying balanced and maintaining the correct spacing from the ball. Not only that, after hitting it’s about efficiently recovering and the patterns to recover change based on how you hit the previous shot.

 

[Curious]

Glad you’re finally understanding that you need to drill footwork. I’ve seen videos on instagram of exd1 and professional athletes trying tennis for the first few times. These people are really athletic and great movers. Usually whoever is teaching them tells them to stay on their toes and keep their feet active. They do a great job at this immediately. But the way they move to the ball looks awkward and wrong, even if they may have amazing straight line speed. This for me immediately proves that the movement isn’t intuitive.

It’s not about getting to the ball as fast as possible, it’s about getting to the ball fast while staying balanced and maintaining the correct spacing from the ball. Not only that, after hitting it’s about efficiently recovering and the patterns to recover change based on how you hit the previous shot.

Well said. Agree 100%.

 

[nyta2]

@nyta2
Watching my video above again in slow motion my first move after the split step is actually a tiny step with the right foot instead of a pivot or drop step. That’s an issue, right? Potentially slows the movement.

See how he drops the right foot down as the first move, no forward step.

you don’t have to do a drop step every time (ie when ball is lateral and close)

the vid you posted above is demonstrating the drop step for a wide ball (where you do need to do the drop step)

for closer balls (or if I generally have time) I just do a step out, or a shuffle (I think it’s called a rhythm step)

but yeah, if you don’t already have this moevement, you need to learn it.

 

[Curious]

you don’t have to do a drop step every time (ie when ball is lateral and close)

the vid you posted above is demonstrating the drop step for a wide ball (where you do need to do the drop step)

for closer balls (or if I generally have time) I just do a step out, or a shuffle (I think it’s called a rhythm step)

but yeah, if you don’t already have this moevement, you need to learn it.

Good point that I missed. Thanks.

 

[yoyofly]

Good point that I missed. Thanks.

Would you please find any good videos regarding the "step out" pattern? I saw many shuffle and cross step videos, but not much on the "step out", which is kinda important since often times balls come close to me.

 

[yoyofly]

you don’t have to do a drop step every time (ie when ball is lateral and close)

the vid you posted above is demonstrating the drop step for a wide ball (where you do need to do the drop step)

for closer balls (or if I generally have time) I just do a step out, or a shuffle (I think it’s called a rhythm step)

but yeah, if you don’t already have this moevement, you need to learn it.

Would you please describe a bit more about the "step out", since my footwork pattern is not that clean on balls close to me. I feel I can just do one "step out", but often, I ended up shuffling multiple time even when the balls are close to me.

 

[nyta2]

found the vid i'm getting my info from...

 

[yoyofly]

found the vid i'm getting my info from...

Thanks! But again he talked a lot about the shuffle, but not much on the "step out zone", I guess "step out" is easier to do, so not worth a lot of discussion.

 

[nyta2]

Thanks! But again he talked a lot about the shuffle, but not much on the "step out zone", I guess "step out" is easier to do, so not worth a lot of discussion.

imo it is that easy
i think one detail that is mentioned but not highlighted in this vid, is the ideal split step... where if you can time your split perfectly, you are landing your opposite foot (of the diretion you want to go).
"flow step" in this vid:

 

[yoyofly]

imo it is that easy
i think one detail that is mentioned but not highlighted in this vid, is the ideal split step... where if you can time your split perfectly, you are landing your opposite foot (of the diretion you want to go).
"flow step" in this vid:

Looks like if the ball is in the "step out zone", the "flow step" need to be loaded already and ready to fire, right?
I see pros do that especially when the ball is close and also fast coming, maybe not time to shuffle. A LITTLE step out, and then fire away already.

Actually, when I think about this, it's a lot like return of serve.

 

[Curious]

Looks like if the ball is in the "step out zone", the "flow step" need to be loaded already and ready to fire, right?
I see pros do that especially when the ball is close and also fast coming, maybe not time to shuffle. A LITTLE step out, and then fire away already.

Actually, when I think about this, it's a lot like return of serve.

What I meant by step out was not step out and hit situation, it was the tiny step out as the first move before continuing to move to the out wide ball, which seems to slow you down. It should be either pivot or drop step in that case.

 

[yoyofly]

What I meant by step out was not step out and hit situation, it was the tiny step out as the first move before continuing to move to the out wide ball, which seems to slow you down. It should be either pivot or drop step in that case.

Yeah, I'm not sure in this case then...If you intend to shuffle or cross over, can you step out a little bit first? IMO, it's not that big of a deal. Either step out a little bit, or drop step a little bit inside are fine. Not really sure about this though.

 

[Curious]

Yeah, I'm not sure in this case then...If you intend to shuffle or cross over, can you step out a little bit first? IMO, it's not that big of a deal. Either step out a little bit, or drop step a little bit inside are fine. Not really sure about this though.

nyta2 explained it yesterday. If you’re covering a long distance drop or pivot is better, otherwise starting with a step out is fine.

 

[nyta2]

Yeah, I'm not sure in this case then...If you intend to shuffle or cross over, can you step out a little bit first? IMO, it's not that big of a deal. Either step out a little bit, or drop step a little bit inside are fine. Not really sure about this though.

these are like piano scales...
it's not A or B or C or D
sometimes you're combining AB, or BD, etc...
you should always split at min (sometimes it's a flow step, sometimes not)...
sometimes i do a stepout into a shuffle
sometimes i do a crossover into a shuffle
etc...

and these are just the "lateral" category of movement...
sometimes you'll combine these with up&back movement patterns,...
at some point they should all just blend, and you use what you need to cover whatever distance you need to, and achieve whatever spacing you need to...
and maybe some you don't even "learn" because you naturally do it, or have already learned it in other sports (soccer imo best alternative sport whose footwork translates well for tennis)

but if you don't even know these bsaic ones (i think bailey has the best categorization of footwork steps), but it's a good bet you're using very inefficient footwork... common mistakes i see:
* being flat footed
* shuffling everywhere (always tiny steps and then late to the ball)
* always take a cross over step (often end up being jammed or lunging)

 

[Morch Us]

it was the tiny step out as the first move

In general, the issue I see is ball prediction. If you don't judge the ball pace/trajectory early enough you may not have the right intent coming out of split step. Maybe check some of your other videos and see if you can see instances of drop step, and then you know drop step is not foreign to you.

Also remember it is not just about lateral movement, in this case you should have moved back as part of your first cross over. Instead you ended up leaving that to final step, leading to bad balance. Again it could be because you misjudged the depth/topspin of the incoming ball.

 

[Curious]

In general, the issue I see is ball prediction. If you don't judge the ball pace/trajectory early enough you may not have the right intent coming out of split step. Maybe check some of your other videos and see if you can see instances of drop step, and then you know drop step is not foreign to you.

Also remember it is not just about lateral movement, in this case you should have moved back as part of your first cross over. Instead you ended up leaving that to final step, leading to bad balance. Again it could be because you misjudged the depth/topspin of the incoming ball.

I don’t think my split step and first move are too bad though I don’t like the lethargic look. I want to be more agile and explosive. But I’m not happy with what I do when I get to the ball, my balance, weight transfer and recovery. I’m working on it big time now.

 

[Morch Us]

I don’t like the lethargic look.

My point is, it sometimes could be related to your initial intent. Maybe let me try explain it using a different scenario.

Let us say you close to the net and the opponent did a lob. If you recognized early that the lob is going to be a really good one, is really high and is going to land close to the baseline, you will not waste any time, will just turn around and sprint. Instead if you initially mis-recognized the lob as a medium one, which may land just behind service lane, your intent would be to take a side shuffle back, and if you recognize a bit late that the lob is better than anticipated, then you may start your run back late. In some cases, it may already be too late to run back, and in that case you may try a scissor kicking jump backwards to possibly reach the ball, with a weak overhead (at this point you are just trying to touch the ball).

In summary, the ball prediction/recognition capabilities play a really big part in the footwork patterns you chose, even if you are natural with the patterns.

 

[socallefty]

I’m not happy with what I do when I get to the ball, my balance, weight transfer and recovery.

I hadn’t watched one of your videos in a very long time. I think you have improved your movement and general level. The main thing missing is that you are leaning backwards and a bit unbalanced when you hit many of your baseline shots. You once started a thread that forward weight transfer is not needed - I don’t know if you still believe it, but you are still living it. You are also very upright and in an open stance in almost all shots off neutral balls - hard to be an aggressive power baseliner unless you step forward into more shots with a lower base and more extension.

 

[nyta2]

The main thing missing is that you are leaning backwards and a bit unbalanced when you hit many of your baseline shots. You once started a thread that forward weight transfer is not needed - I don’t know if you still believe it, but you are still living it. You are also very upright and in an open stance in almost all shots off neutral balls - hard to be an aggressive power baseline unless you step forward into more shots with a lower base and more extension.

more mediball throw drills!
never done this but this seems like a fun game i need to try:

 

[nyta2]

I’m working on it big time now.

cool vid of alcaraz working on it

 

[Curious]

I hadn’t watched one of your videos in a very long time. I think you have improved your movement and general level. The main thing missing is that you are leaning backwards and a bit unbalanced when you hit many of your baseline shots. You once started a thread that forward weight transfer is not needed - I don’t know if you still believe it, but you are still living it. You are also very upright and in an open stance in almost all shots off neutral balls - hard to be an aggressive power baseliner unless you step forward into more shots with a lower base and more extension.

Watching the videos I don’t think my footwork is terribly wrong technically.
I mean the general rules like split step, cross over steps as needed, side steps as needed. But it’s still not good and effective enough. Leaning back as you say. Btw I see it mostly a balance problem rather than the benefits from weight transfer for power. Again I think the biggest problem with my footwork is happening when I’m hitting the ball and the beginning of the recovery. I’ll work on that, try to have a wider more stable base, more balanced while hitting and more agile and explosive at the start of recovery.

 

[Curious]

cool vid of alcaraz working on it

I think he supports my longstanding belief that one should try to get as strong as possible in the legs and core. When I watch Alcaraz his movement looks so effortless it’s like a Corolla with a Mustang engine!

 

[RyanRF]

Sure, it’s not just black and white. My question was simple. In unforced situations like in the video below, should one try to avoid these contact heights or develop the skill to hit well despite the non ideal contact height?

Good thing to work on in practice, and something I've been working on lately:

• Do some slow shadow swings to remind youself where your ideal contact zone is (high/low, left/right, and away/close). Imagine a clear box in 3d space.
• In your next practice rallies, do everything you can to make sure the ball is in that box at the time you hit it
• You'll probably notice that it takes a lot more footwork and energy to get there
• You'll probably also notice when you get it right you have fewer mishits and more comfortable transfer of power into the ball

So sure I can occasionally hit quality balls outside my strike zone, but it's lower percentage. I have to make a concious decision between spending the energy to move into the ideal position, vs being a little lazy and trying to compensate for a non-ideal ball with muscle and hand-eye coordination.

When comparing pros to amatures, you notice both. 1) Pros have the ability to hit with quality off nearly everything.... But also 2) they will do the leg work to get into the ideal position as often as they can.

 

[Curious]

I have to make a concious decision between spending the energy to move into the ideal position, vs being a little lazy and trying to compensate for a non-ideal ball with muscle and hand-eye coordination.

When comparing pros to amatures, you notice both. 1) Pros have the ability to hit with quality off nearly everything.... But also 2) they will do the leg work to get into the ideal position as often as they can.

Very well put!