CUSTOMIZATION ALERT: A Platform Racquet Overlooked?
- Thread starter Brando
- Start date
Purestriker
Legend
Dan is an interesting cat.
TennisHound
Legend
The Lite Speeds still have the odd weak throat and weight at the poles. To me, they need some weight in the throat before weight in the head or handle.
Having spent a very long time experimenting with lighter 'platform' frames or whatever you want to call them (which for me takes in the likes of Lite, Team, Junior frames, plus just standard frames that spec out nearer to what I like and can work with), you can count me in on this thread! 
... Some examples being DR-98 L, Blade 98 L, TFight 100 280, UT, lower weight APDs, Pro Open 100. Where I might diverge a bit though is re racket length. I am now completely all in on extended length and all the aforementioned I've checked out in the last few months XL-ed up.
... Some examples being DR-98 L, Blade 98 L, TFight 100 280, UT, lower weight APDs, Pro Open 100. Where I might diverge a bit though is re racket length. I am now completely all in on extended length and all the aforementioned I've checked out in the last few months XL-ed up.longtimelurker
Professional
Love doing this too. Wish someone invented a 0.25 extension buttcap though !Having spent a very long time experimenting with lighter 'platform' frames or whatever you want to call them (which for me takes in the likes of Lite, Team, Junior frames, plus just standard frames that spec out nearer to what I like and can work with), you can count me in on this thread!
I seriously doubt that pros play with the Steam under various paint jobs because they can get it really light to be customized. Those pros could get any racquet really light to be customized to their preferred specs.
IMHO the Speed MP Lite is the best Head racquet for customization, and from Babolat it’s the Pure Strike Lite.
The Wilson Blade v8 100UL and the Yonex EZone 98L are good too.
IMHO the Speed MP Lite is the best Head racquet for customization, and from Babolat it’s the Pure Strike Lite.
The Wilson Blade v8 100UL and the Yonex EZone 98L are good too.
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@Brando - Another decent platform frame: Head Auxetic Prestige MP-L (300g, 99" 16x19 w/ 8 throat mains, 31.5cm UB, 383 USW). I play mine spec'd up to ~340g/31.7/328 and it plays like an extension of my arm. Calm and confident string bed, can be played well with more flat or spinny groundstrokes, great on baseline exchanges or all-court attack, equally good for the 2HBH or OHBH, great for double or singles. A one-stick quiver. The only bad thing? Head chose not to officially bring it to the USA, so we're left having to gray-market them in. Super lame, and kind of makes for an awkward conversation whenever anyone sees mine and asks "where did you get yours?"
IMHO some racquets like the Steam with very good designs are behind more recent racquets because of better designs on the more recent racquets. The Blades have parallel drilling. The Steams don’t. The Pro Staffs don’t either.
What Wilson calls parallel drilling, and the other brands that have the same thing but call it something different, is one of the changes in racquets that’s not some load of bs, and IMHO racquets without it are behind. That means that just like the Blades are ahead of the Steams, the Speeds are ahead of the Prestiges.
Some of you have mentioned the 8 mains in the throat (for 16 mains). Some racquets have it, but most don’t. Having it means being able to string it top-down without going ATW with hard weaves or doing it 2-piece. The same for 18 mains, Wilson is doing 10 mains in the throat for the Shift so it can be strung top-down without going ATW or doing it 2-piece. The other brands should pay attention to this.
Dunlop and Yonex have some racquets that have the outer mains pulled not that far from straight. The other brands should pay attention to this.
What Wilson calls parallel drilling, and the other brands that have the same thing but call it something different, is one of the changes in racquets that’s not some load of bs, and IMHO racquets without it are behind. That means that just like the Blades are ahead of the Steams, the Speeds are ahead of the Prestiges.
Some of you have mentioned the 8 mains in the throat (for 16 mains). Some racquets have it, but most don’t. Having it means being able to string it top-down without going ATW with hard weaves or doing it 2-piece. The same for 18 mains, Wilson is doing 10 mains in the throat for the Shift so it can be strung top-down without going ATW or doing it 2-piece. The other brands should pay attention to this.
Dunlop and Yonex have some racquets that have the outer mains pulled not that far from straight. The other brands should pay attention to this.
@kkm - Good points, however there's usually a balance to everything, even here. In this case of full parallel drilling, the benefits would seem obvious and absolute, yet there is still value in having a certain amount of calmness to the string bed, a certain precision of the sweet spot, even a certain limitation on string movement, likely to the point where perhaps "partial" parallel drilling may be of benefit. Thus why you see certain players, even juniors, still preferring more traditional-style qualities in frames, be they more Prestige-like or whatever model. It's all a question of balance, and just because a new construction paradigm may unlock performance previously unseen, doesn't mean that the new method needs to be 100% implemented, all the time. Doing so in this case may could certainly result in a string bed that may feel excessively vague, or perhaps too lively/springy/unpredictable in a certain way. So having a variety and range in all things is still of value, even with grommet drilling. That's just my take on it, anyways. Hope that helps bring some perspective.
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Case-in-point. Just because something is new, doesn't necessarily make it better, either universally, or for the sub-population in question.
Brando
Professional
@kkm, while you may doubt that the pros I listed in the OP really play the Steam under the Blade PJ, the proof is in the grommets. The only throat grommets available for the Steam today are distinctively white. Look for the white grommets at 6 o’clock and you’ll know it’s a Steam.
@stickM , the answer to your first question is, yes, more Steams than true Blades To the second, I have no idea. But good question!
@Trip, that Prestige MP L fires many a cylinder: Auxetic, thinnish straight beam, 65 RA, open SP, HL-ish balance, and it’s CAP’d! A light CAP’d racquet. I didn’t think they existed bc they’re hiding them on the continent! Those bastiches! I’d throw Multifeel black @ 50# into that frame so fast your head’d spin. But if I know you, you’ve got The Cream in the mains balanced with a softer multi?
@stickM , the answer to your first question is, yes, more Steams than true Blades To the second, I have no idea. But good question!
@Trip, that Prestige MP L fires many a cylinder: Auxetic, thinnish straight beam, 65 RA, open SP, HL-ish balance, and it’s CAP’d! A light CAP’d racquet. I didn’t think they existed bc they’re hiding them on the continent! Those bastiches! I’d throw Multifeel black @ 50# into that frame so fast your head’d spin. But if I know you, you’ve got The Cream in the mains balanced with a softer multi?
Hah. Actually, as much as I trumpet Multi/Cream hybrids for others, I prefer the control and lower power of full crisp poly, as least for myself in this frame. I'm into good tennis shape (good shape in general, as modestly as I can say) and take care of my arm, so I've been able to proceed in good health. I've been playing the slickest, longest-lasting shaped stuff with low dwell and pocketing that I can find, around 1.30 gauge in the low-mid 50's (lockout, so 50-ish eCP). The wider gauge closes up the surprisingly open pattern and calms the string bed down to a level that I like, the aggressive shape helps me get more grip and spin, and the low dwell/pocketing is what I like because the frame does enough that I don't need any extra from the strings.
Combo's I've tried so far: Grapplesnake Tour M8 1.30 (solid across the board; great feel), Tier One Firewire Boost "Stiff" (FW Black 1.30 mains, either Head Hawk 1.30 or Max Power 1.30 crosses - both great, baring the occasional bizarre launch from Firewire), Tecnifibre 4S 1.30 (stiff as a board starting out, then opened up to sublime-level for a few hours, then lost tension a bit faster than I was hoping). Next I'm planning on trying YTEX Penta Power Black 1.28, also Firewire Black 1.30 / Tour M8 1.30, and maybe some MSV and Genesis options, to see if I can narrow down on a winner. It's been a fun and insightful journey to see whose stuff really is the best, and whose is just more of a paper champion, that's for sure!
In general, though, the MP-L plays better with more types of strings than I think any frame I've ever tried. I think it's due to a combo of a lack of excessive dampening/muting "tech" in the frame, the solidness of the Auxetic mesh and yet the lightness/airy-ness of only a 300g layup. This translates nicely to, well, everything -- nat gut, syn gut, multi, poly, Ashaway Zyex/Kevlar, probably even string trimmer or fishing line if you got the right gauge, lol! I've certainly tried most of those, both full bed and in hybrids, in the MP-L, and they each play well, or better, with unique qualities to offer. I've just preferred full poly for my play style, plus I'm a self-stringer, so I can more easily afford to swap strings at well under 10 hours if required (although I prefer not to).
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Strange synchronicities since landing on this thread... I got myself one of these a few hours before reading this particular post. And also, one of the main reasons was because I have an instinct it might work really well extended!
Quoted for truth.
You are seriously giving me ideas Trip!...
Again - quoted for truth... the process can be a total pita.
I don’t doubt that those pros are playing with the Steam. I was just questioning the reason why they play with it.
TennisHound
Legend
Brando
Professional
My only answer thus far, @TennisHound, is that the Steam was that rare combo of low weight, thin-beam, head-light, and low twist-weight that makes for an ideal platform. But if you got more intel, do by all means give us the goods...
longtimelurker
Professional
TennisHound
Legend
The Steam was not a good hitting racquet to me. It was too flexible and unstable, and already overweight for a platform racquet (for rec use). The Blade Team however is another story. But the Team is a different racquet from the Steam, other than the shape.
Brando
Professional
Interesting. Given your mention in post #55 of the Lite Speeds feeling too polarized for your taste, I'd have thought the Steam, with its low, 147, recoil weight would have felt better than that. Maybe it was that 12.5 twist weight. That'd make any frame feel unstable without considerable tip weighting.
Q. Anyone played a Pure Aero (banana '19 version) Lite or Team and then modded up?
Confess this is one itch I've been meaning to scratch for quite a while. I'm not sure exactly how all the PA's might differ (weight/balance aside), but main thing is I'm just curious which one people may have found to be optimal and best suited to their 'platformer' requirements. For my purposes I'd be extending to at least 0.25" in length, so that is a major consideration.
Confess this is one itch I've been meaning to scratch for quite a while. I'm not sure exactly how all the PA's might differ (weight/balance aside), but main thing is I'm just curious which one people may have found to be optimal and best suited to their 'platformer' requirements. For my purposes I'd be extending to at least 0.25" in length, so that is a major consideration.
TennisHound
Legend
The Speeds have the Graphene process - weak throat combined with weight at the poles, which makes them hard to modify. I think if it started out at 300g and a few RA points higher, it would feel better. I’m not sure about the numbers.
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tomkowy
Rookie
I know Aeroprodrive Original compared to Aero Lite from 2013, played with both for at least couple hours each. I'd say that Lite may be a good platform frame - it has relatively low swingweight and relatively high twistweight. It was easier to play than first Aeroprodrive, which has lower twistweight and is not that stable. When you add weight under the handle and some weight in the hoop, it will not be that much different from regular Aero. It's the same mold after all.
I think when we refer to the Steam in this thread, it would help to clarify whether we're referring to the 99... or the 100. I found the Steam 99/Blade Team 99 to be too stiff and already too head heavy to leave much room for customization so sold them. I held on to the Steam 100 racquets (2012 versions) as I found them to have enough flex for my comfort and light enough to modify. In the end... my old joints still prefer even more comfortable frames like the Prestige MP-L Auxetic, Speed MP Auxetic, and Blade 104 v8.
TennisHound
Legend
Steam 99. Steam 99 and Blade Team are completely different racquets. They have the same shape, but that’s where the similarities end. The Blade Team 99 (Blade V6 paint) had the same weight as the Steam but was stiffer (and was discontinued with the V7). I agree that the Team 99 and Steam 99 start out too head heavy, and too heavy in general. Only the Blade Team is offered today.
babar
Professional
I've been trying all kinds of racquets categories to see what I want to play with going forward as I hit the big 50 very soon.Having spent a very long time experimenting with lighter 'platform' frames or whatever you want to call them (which for me takes in the likes of Lite, Team, Junior frames, plus just standard frames that spec out nearer to what I like and can work with), you can count me in on this thread!
My shoulder just doesn't allow me to swing a Prestige or Pro Staff (11.7+oz) type frame anymore for 3 sets.
Many of the mid-weight frames (11-11.7 oz) don't work for me since I end of adding about 15-17g of weight to the lower half of the frame with grip, butt-cap build-up, dampeners, etc.
If I designed a frame on paper, the Extreme Tour, WO 305 or EZ98 seem like they would be ideal, but I've had trouble with those once the added weight of 15-17g is present.
So, I thought I might try some sub-11oz frames with my added weight and see how it goes.
I've briefly hit with a EZ98L, WO 290, and played a few doubles matches with the Speed Team.
All were very nice in terms of keeping my shoulder happy and still being able to hit a decent ball.
I did fee the power level and depth dropped off with the lack of weight, but I'm also switching to using multis instead of polys and that might help me get a bit more power and depth even with the lighter frames.
I play a lot of pushers and slow ballers in my singles leagues so need something that will handle generating power and depth for extended periods, but also handle hard hitting 4.5-5.0 level doubles where 100-110mph serves are common.
Would love to hear anyone's thoughts or advice or similar experiences with sub 11oz frames.
Thanks in advance!
Purestriker
Legend
Brando
Professional
Hi, @babar. It's been over a year since you posted your request for sub-11oz racquet suggestions, so you've doubtless found at least a couple of good prospects in the meantime. Has one of them been the 290 Pure Aero Rafa? @dr. godmode has been raving about it as a former control racquet afficionado, his being the Whiteout 18x20. Since you're a former Prestige and Pro Staff player, might you find some love with this ultralite power frame too?
Pro Staff v14 UL is probably the most platform-esque frame there is today. Check it out:
www.tennis-warehouse.com
Although, i think TW messed up the strung balance. When you plug in unstrung specs in customization tool and add 18g strings you get:
Shove 20g under the trapdoor and 12 g at 12 and you get the lightest 340 SW, 170+ RW commercial frame. (340 sw being the usual upper limit for max ball speed, while 170 rw is IMO minimum for arm safety)
The beauty of this frame lies in its low mgri, which is achieved by not putting extra weight in the upper handle, exactly as in pro stock rackets. This allows you to reach probably every spec imaginable. (some notably hard ones to reach with weight in upper handle being Noles and Sinners)
Wilson Pro Staff 97UL v14 Racquet | Tennis Warehouse
www.tennis-warehouse.com
Shove 20g under the trapdoor and 12 g at 12 and you get the lightest 340 SW, 170+ RW commercial frame. (340 sw being the usual upper limit for max ball speed, while 170 rw is IMO minimum for arm safety)
The beauty of this frame lies in its low mgri, which is achieved by not putting extra weight in the upper handle, exactly as in pro stock rackets. This allows you to reach probably every spec imaginable. (some notably hard ones to reach with weight in upper handle being Noles and Sinners)
Brando
Professional
Yeah, I'd call that a pretty perfect platform, too, @Donmikan. And I'm always a sucker for a straight beam!
I gotta comment, too, about your method of adding strings to the Customization Worksheet. For years I used the method suggested by the TWU Prof:
(Assuming 15g strings in a standard 98 racquet)
Here, weight is distributed toward the center because there are more strings there. Anyway, the worksheet adds 1cm & 28.2sw. But if you input all 15g at 53cm, just as you did @Donmikan, the result is the same but for more twistweight. And I find that kinda interesting...
I gotta comment, too, about your method of adding strings to the Customization Worksheet. For years I used the method suggested by the TWU Prof:
(Assuming 15g strings in a standard 98 racquet)
| Distribution: | 1g | 3g | 7g | 3g | 1g |
| Lengths: | 63cm | 59cm | 53cm | 48cm | 41cm |
| ½ Widths: | 6.0cm | 11cm | 12cm | 11.7cm | 6.5cm |
Here, weight is distributed toward the center because there are more strings there. Anyway, the worksheet adds 1cm & 28.2sw. But if you input all 15g at 53cm, just as you did @Donmikan, the result is the same but for more twistweight. And I find that kinda interesting...
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So was I, but then I found a bargain Head Graphene Radical Rev. Unstrung 260g, 36cm, 300sw! I have it at 306g 33.5cm 339 swingweight. Another platform goodie!
Thanks for this info! Yes its a bit more precise, but its kinda the same
Especially when we are dealing with nominal specs of a racket, which arent gonna match to ones we get IRL, that precision goes to waste.Maybe you could update the first post to include a list of these frames?
Casey 1988
Rookie
In this case the Dunlop SX 300 lite would be a good model for a modding platform. like given how light the racquet is in strung weight of 280 grams however the swing weight is very high at 299--300
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TennisHound
Legend
That’s pretty definitive.
TennisHound
Legend
Looks cool. I like that it is pre-Graphene, but 270 (9.5oz) is pretty light.
(Looks like no grips available)
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