Dealing with a net rusher
- Thread starter DonPepe
- Start date
First - don't panic, and don't overhit! Make him play the volleys and make him finish the point with an overhead, don't think that you have to hit a winner every time you've got a shot.
What level are you and what shots do you have? The answer might be pretty different at 3.0 vs 4.5...
What level are you and what shots do you have? The answer might be pretty different at 3.0 vs 4.5...
Cashman
Hall of Fame
Focus on hitting good, solid topspin passing shots off a stable base.
Give yourself plenty of time and margin for error - you don’t have to paint the lines, just make him stretch a little bit. Don’t be afraid to whip your passing shot across in front of his body - if you get it dipping below the net cord, it’s one of the hardest volleys to hit.
Lobs are worth trying out, but if he’s an experienced net player with good positioning and a good overhead, going to them consistently will result in a bad time.
Give yourself plenty of time and margin for error - you don’t have to paint the lines, just make him stretch a little bit. Don’t be afraid to whip your passing shot across in front of his body - if you get it dipping below the net cord, it’s one of the hardest volleys to hit.
Lobs are worth trying out, but if he’s an experienced net player with good positioning and a good overhead, going to them consistently will result in a bad time.
ChrisG
Professional
Played an extremely good net rusher, no matter I served bombs he would rush to the net regardless (5.0 -5.5 level)
I’m quite good at passing shots and we had a hard fought 1st set he won in the tie break.
I was playing very well but I didn’t realize I was mentally exhausted. He then crushed me in the 2nd set.
what I learnt: lobs are ineffective at this level.
As @Cashman said, don’t force the down the line shots, low passing shots in the middle of the court, in front of the body, are very effective as it will give you an easier 2nd shot.
But very important, keep your mind “fresh” As it’s your best weapon in this kind of matches
I’m quite good at passing shots and we had a hard fought 1st set he won in the tie break.
I was playing very well but I didn’t realize I was mentally exhausted. He then crushed me in the 2nd set.
what I learnt: lobs are ineffective at this level.
As @Cashman said, don’t force the down the line shots, low passing shots in the middle of the court, in front of the body, are very effective as it will give you an easier 2nd shot.
But very important, keep your mind “fresh” As it’s your best weapon in this kind of matches
McLovin
Legend
A skill that has died along with serve & volley is the "two shot passing shot". I think Agassi was one of the best at doing this, given he played people like Rafter (15 times) & Edberg (9 times) throughout his career. Basically, you hit your first passing shot not as a winner, but as something that will hopefully elicit a weak reply. Usually this is some sort of short, dipping shot that forces your opponent to 'volley up'. It doesn't even have to be a 'passing shot' in the sense that you're trying to go around them. Dipping right at their feet is just as effective.
The 2nd shot is now basically a sitter, and you have your options of going cross-court, down the line, topspin lob, or as others have suggested, straight at them.
The 2nd shot is now basically a sitter, and you have your options of going cross-court, down the line, topspin lob, or as others have suggested, straight at them.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
You have gotten some great advice here ... I think if you are dealing with a good S&V player it definitely changes what shots you are going to employ.
A ball with significant net clearance that is going to land deep is what the net rusher wants ... allowing them to take the ball in the air and at a comfortable height.
The advice you are getting is all from posters that I believe are fairly high ranked 4.5 or higher.
I am lower level ... 3.5 knocking on 4.0 door ... What works for me is to hit low slice shots ... gives them an uncomfortable volley or half volley.
Additionally if they are coming in behind their return ... I want to take their time away so I am going to step in and try to take as many balls early so that they are caught at or behind the service line .... I am usually going to go DTL on that rather than cross court ... I want to cut off their angles and their time.
A ball with significant net clearance that is going to land deep is what the net rusher wants ... allowing them to take the ball in the air and at a comfortable height.
The advice you are getting is all from posters that I believe are fairly high ranked 4.5 or higher.
I am lower level ... 3.5 knocking on 4.0 door ... What works for me is to hit low slice shots ... gives them an uncomfortable volley or half volley.
Additionally if they are coming in behind their return ... I want to take their time away so I am going to step in and try to take as many balls early so that they are caught at or behind the service line .... I am usually going to go DTL on that rather than cross court ... I want to cut off their angles and their time.
Curtennis
Hall of Fame
I recommend hitting down the line in front of you when he’s at the net. Don’t worry if it’s his forehand or backhand.
Don’t try to go cross court unless you know you can make it.
first off this simplifies things. Sometimes when someone’s at the net you have 5 things in your brain at once and ultimately you do none of them well. So tell yourself when he comes to the net I’m going down the line that I’m closest to. Do this every time for the next match against someone like this. Don’t worry about mixing it up, you are doing this to learn and get comfortable.
when waiting for his return guard the same half that you targeted. Don’t worry as much about cross court volleys back from him. If he hits it, great for him. More often than not, he won’t if you’re hitting decent shots. His safest and easiest shot will be to go back straight in front of him, if he accidentally pulls it the other way it’s out, if he does manage to get it pretty straight it’s right to you and now he’s out of his comfort zone. No one wants to have to hit a second volley at the net. People come to the net to end points, not rally.
a singles tennis court is only 27’ wide, but 39’ deep.
Make him land in the 27 zone, defend the 39 zone.
I have a little more to say and some more logic to it but my thumbs are exhausted.
Don’t try to go cross court unless you know you can make it.
first off this simplifies things. Sometimes when someone’s at the net you have 5 things in your brain at once and ultimately you do none of them well. So tell yourself when he comes to the net I’m going down the line that I’m closest to. Do this every time for the next match against someone like this. Don’t worry about mixing it up, you are doing this to learn and get comfortable.
when waiting for his return guard the same half that you targeted. Don’t worry as much about cross court volleys back from him. If he hits it, great for him. More often than not, he won’t if you’re hitting decent shots. His safest and easiest shot will be to go back straight in front of him, if he accidentally pulls it the other way it’s out, if he does manage to get it pretty straight it’s right to you and now he’s out of his comfort zone. No one wants to have to hit a second volley at the net. People come to the net to end points, not rally.
a singles tennis court is only 27’ wide, but 39’ deep.
Make him land in the 27 zone, defend the 39 zone.
I have a little more to say and some more logic to it but my thumbs are exhausted.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
LOL, what kind of net rushers are you playing that this strategy is successful?
You are already aiming for the high part of the net, where you need to hit the ball higher for margin, but you also stay? Volleys into the open court are the bread and butter of a net rusher.
This will backfire unless you're significantly better than your opponent to begin with
If you're going to pick a uni-dimensional strategy, at least give yourself a better chance and go cross every time
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Curtennis
Hall of Fame
this isn’t a strategy to win a grand slam. This is a strategy for a rec player that needs to figure out how to handle a net player. I recommend playing a simple style to get to understand mechanics. Op stated he doesn’t know whether to lob, pass, etc
I recommend playing the same way one full match to get the full idea of how a net player will handle one specific style.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Even more so. The pros hit with enough topspin that it makes the DTL a much safer shot since the ball will dip and make life difficult for the volleyer. At the average rec level it's going to be easy pickings for an experienced net rusher
Curtennis
Hall of Fame
I keep checking this thread for your advice, but yet all I see is you attacking me for sharing a strategy that I have implemented and grown with. At 3.0 level it’s very hard to hit cross court against a guy standing in the middle of the court and even if somehow you get it to his opposite side you now have an entirely open court for him to hit.
RyanRF
Professional
Generally, hitting dipping topspin shots will be a more reliable strategy than going for clean passes. If the guy moves closer to the net to protect against dippers, then lobbing over the backhand is possible.
Also, they can't rush the net if you get to net first
That might surprise them and take them out of their comfort zone.
Also, they can't rush the net if you get to net first
That might surprise them and take them out of their comfort zone.
Curtennis
Hall of Fame
I love the idea of two guys racing to the net every single point just to try and beat the other guy thereGenerally, hitting dipping topspin shots will be a more reliable strategy than going for clean passes. If the guy moves closer to the net to protect against dippers, then lobbing over the backhand is possible.
Also, they can't rush the net if you get to net first
That might surprise them and take them out of their comfort zone.
RyanRF
Professional
No.
Hitting 'at someone' and hitting 'at their face/neck' are two very different things. Hitting at someone usually means center of chest, and I do that all the time. But when you aim for the face you are no longer even trying to keep the ball in the court.
Intentionally hitting as hard as you can at someone's face is simply not acceptable under any circumstance.
The key here is what are you capable of doing. There are a fair many choices available to you.
If you hit a good, heavy topspin ball then I might suggest you worry less about clean passes and lobs. Make that ball bounce at their feet as they rush the net, and see if they can do anything with it. Most people won't handle it well, and on the next shot you go for a winner. The funny thing is that hitting the ball shorter probably won't be very hard if you've practiced it a bit. Usually your effort has to go toward focusing to drive the shots deeper.
All the joking aside, I'd normally not recommend ripping balls above waist height to a net rusher. Unless this person is stupid, they likely have quick reactions and good volleys. You will be feeding them exactly what they want.
As for lobbing, it's something you should be working in occasionally. If you can disguise the lob a bit, and hit them reliably deep you'll really put a thorn in their side. That's doubly true if they are weaker from the baseline, and they like to rush in because they're weaker back there, or just unable to finish points from deep.
Wrap it all up by being ready to come inside the baseline yourself. If you're forcing them to hit volleys, or turning around to run down lobs then you should be getting a fair number of balls coming back shorter in the court. Step in and look to put those chances away.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Sorry I don’t think the sarcasm transferred online.
If you can’t figure it out in game and have to resort to asking for solutions on a forum then you clearly have a strong need to win. In that case just playing like a d*ck and ripping balls straight at your opponent might be your best option. I was joking, definitely don’t do this
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
I just see the "always DTL" option as one of the worst possible.
Ideally you'd want to be able to hit anywhere and adjust depending on the situation (this also includes being able to lob effectively) to keep them on their toes. The most effective way is to use some form of a two-shot pass -- starting with a dipper CC that forces them to pop up their volley, so you can take control of the point
But if you are going to stick to just one type of pass, I much prefer the CC option, or even the lob if you are talking about 3.0 tennis.
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Curtennis
Hall of Fame
If he (or any of us) could do that on demand, we wouldn't be asking for advice on a forum.
How to beat a net rusher? Simple, just hit it anywhere past him and you're good.
RyanRF
Professional
Exactly. Watch 0:15 to 0:40
Fed masterclass on how to return vs S&V. Federer simply bunts low returns up the middle and Zverev always ends up in an awkward spot.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Let me answer from the opposite perspective as the guy [4.5] who is doing the SandV. The opponents who give me the most trouble do the following:
- Make your shots, no matter how poor. It's OK to go for the hero, highlight reel, desperation shot occasionally but in general, make me hit the putaway volley. I win a lot of points when the defender goes for too much and donates the point.
- The "two shot" passer is a great tactic, mentioned above.
- Test my skill: don't just assume I'm good at every volley just because I'm attacking the net. Vary the height, speed, spin, and location [if you have that type of control]: slow floating slices out wide can be just as tough to handle as a rocket straight at me.
- Don't forget the lob, especially when you can harness the sun and wind. Make sure I can hit an OH from well behind the SL. Don't think of the lob as a last resort; it's a weapon.
- Take the ball on the rise, which takes time away from me and prevents me from closing as far as I'd like to. Just keep in mind that it's a more difficult shot so you have to balance the two factors.
- Try for more depth, which is a very effective way of deterring me from approaching.
RyanRF
Professional
Well that's kinda my point. Murray was returning harder and deeper but that just made Zverev's volleys easier. Fed had much more success by just bunting short.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm not sure it was that simple; if it was, I would think Murray would have figured it out. Fed indeed was masterful at putting the return at Zverev's feet, though.
The question is, how well would a rec player be able to emulate this tactic? Very few of my opponents beat me this way.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
This was a very poor match from Murray. He's played against serve and volleyers before and dealt with them much better than in this match
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DonPepe
Rookie
I play 4.5 , for the past 4 months... players make few errors and I run a lot more. I've been winning but been playing baseline and defense.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
As a 4.5 player you should be able to dip topspin at their feet, get the pop up volley and then hit a passing shot. IF you aren't in position to hit a topspin shot then lob.
I used to S and V and lot in my youth when I could move faster and leap higher and really low shots and really high shots were always my nemesis.
jeep2008
Rookie
That '' I was mentally exhausted''
ChrisG
Professional
I’ve played even better players but never felt as mentally challenged as against this S&V player. Apart from the constant pressure, one thing that challenged me the most was that there were very few rallies to unleashed the frustration of being repeatedly “assaulted” by my opponent.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
lol
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
That's what I hope to do but it's a double-edge racquet because their returns are putting me under pressure also.
ChrisG
Professional
That’s what I couldn’t figure out during the match, I was only thinking about my own self being under pressure, without realizing the S&V player is also under pressure by it’s own style of play. And my quality passing shots lol.
Ah, yeah. At 4.5 a serve-volleyer probably has pretty solid overheads and putaway volleys and probably has a decent serve. So the key is to manage risk properly and go for multi-shot passes. When you've got a shot lined up go for the clean winner pass, when you don't try to dip it low instead, make him volley up, and try to get a better shot of the next ball.
jeep2008
Rookie
Exactly!You cannot find rhythm against a s&v.When you need that solid forehand or backhand you just can't have it!
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You can find rhythm; it's just a different cadence than the regular BL rhythm.
As the S&Ver, my rhythm is within each point. The added benefit is that it makes things easier to compartmentalize each point mentally.
+1
my mantra is "two shot passing"... eg. need to hit at least 2 shots to pass/lob them. if i get it in one, i got lucky, but usually it's gonna be 2 shots (else my error rates start to go up)
first shot is a "setup",... usually a "dipper", or a "stretcher" (or both), (or blast them) which hopefully draws a short ball i can attack.
second shot is usually the first time i consider a pass/lob.
i'm also looking for tells/weaknesses... do they close the net too much: lob, do they skip a split step: hit it at them, or hit soft and angled away (they can't change direction as well)... do they hang back: dip to feet; do they prefer fh/bh?; etc...
but do NOT be tempted to peek at them too early,... eyes on/at the contact is still first priority
when i s&v i'm hoping the baseliner/returner contributes 25% of the points via errors
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Spoken with the voice of experience.
I suppose there's a distinction here in terminology. When I hear "net rusher" (or charger, etc), I'm thinking of the person who's coming to the net almost irrespective of what shot they/you hit. Those people, mad dashing to the net, are going to take your next shot around the service line. If you go deep on them that will be a higher ball and easier to volley. You want to bounce that ball around their feet.
On the other hand, if you're simply playing someone who comes in whenever you hit a short ball.. yeah. Keep it deep.
nuclearmedicineman
Rookie
Right, down the line is the first option vs. cross court due to a longer hitting area (thus more room for error) down the line.
If you have good topspin, a lob can be effective, but he has to be relatively close to the net and he can make the smash if he's quick and your lob is not deep enough.
There's also the option to tell him that S&V is dead and get his annoying ass back to 1980 ...
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nuclearmedicineman
Rookie
Wow! Great returns to Zverev's ankles. That's the "two volley" strategy at work off the serve.
Moon Shooter
Hall of Fame
I almost always forget to try to lob to their back hand when possible.
Like in doubles, when you are in defense (behind the baseline) and the 2 opponents are at net, there are 3 shots:
1) Flat drives
2) Lobs
3) Low dipping topspin shots
For a net rusher, it's important to mix up these shots and not be predictable.
For lobs, I greatly prefer heavy top spin lobs vs. backspin lobs, because these tend to be faster and give the net rusher less time to set up. Also, they will often make the mistake of letting them go thinking the ball is going out, and the topspin keeps it in.
1) Flat drives
2) Lobs
3) Low dipping topspin shots
For a net rusher, it's important to mix up these shots and not be predictable.
For lobs, I greatly prefer heavy top spin lobs vs. backspin lobs, because these tend to be faster and give the net rusher less time to set up. Also, they will often make the mistake of letting them go thinking the ball is going out, and the topspin keeps it in.
Tough call sometimes.
1. If he's off center, pass him with a cannonball DTL topspin forehand that barely clears the net. Preferably to his backhand. Even if he does hit it back, it'll be a sitter you can put away.
2. A deep topspin lob that barely clears his reach and lands just inside the baseline. Try not to do it right over his head - you can hit it lower if it's to one side or the other. This is not an easy shot, you need to practice it a bit, but it is an absolute killer when you can hit it.
1. If he's off center, pass him with a cannonball DTL topspin forehand that barely clears the net. Preferably to his backhand. Even if he does hit it back, it'll be a sitter you can put away.
2. A deep topspin lob that barely clears his reach and lands just inside the baseline. Try not to do it right over his head - you can hit it lower if it's to one side or the other. This is not an easy shot, you need to practice it a bit, but it is an absolute killer when you can hit it.
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