doubles: front back movement at the net

[taurussable]

assume I am at the net and my partner is at the baseline.


situation 1: if I see the net person on the other side has a move to poach, I'll move back to the service line to defend this poach.

situation 2: if my partner at the baseline returned a weak ball, I'll move back to the service line to defend this weak return.

my partner, who is more experienced than me in doubles asks me not to move back in situation 2 because it makes it even harder to defend the weak shot when I am at the service line than I am right above the net.

so in situation 2 what should I do? it happens a lot when I play mixed when my partner often returns a weak shot when I am at the net.

 

[movdqa]

Against competent opponents, it shouldn't matter all that much whether you stay up or move back, they should put the ball away.

If this happens a lot, then you might consider playing two back.

 

[taurussable]

Against competent opponents, it shouldn't matter all that much whether you stay up or move back, they should put the ball away.

If this happens a lot, then you might consider playing two back.

two back doesn't work well in mixed in my experience. the only time we start with two back is the opponent has crazy poachers.

 

[Easy Rider]

When ur partner hits the ball you should be lets say one step into service box watching the movements of oposite partner at the net. First reason is to make space for ur partners shot ccourt. Second reason is to make distance between you and oposite partner at the net so you can have a bit more time to react if he poaches. Third reason is to have less space between you and your partner cuz you gonna better defend the court.
If your partners shot goes ccourt then you move in, closing the net and looking for a ball to poach. You have to move forward in order to make less space for opponents ccourt shot and that way you gonna cover you part of the court and the middle of the court.
If the ball goes ccort to your partner you repeat the bsck-forward movement
Hope I wrote it in a way it makes sense to you

 

[AHJS]

Against competent opponents, it shouldn't matter all that much whether you stay up or move back, they should put the ball away.

If this happens a lot, then you might consider playing two back.

This. But for the best shot, I'd say move back to the service line

 

[inzone]

Where are you standing when your opponent hits the serve? In general, you should already be standing near the service line when your partner hits the return. You should adjust your movement based on where the ball is on the court and based on the type of shots you will face.

I do not understand her reasoning for not wanting you to move back. Are there any other reasons that she has? You should move back so you can be in a better position to return the next shot and so the opponent has less space down the middle to hit into.

 

[inzone]

double post

 

[Rui]

As others have stated, in both situations you should have been back already.

 

[Mr.Lob]

assume I am at the net and my partner is at the baseline.


situation 1: if I see the net person on the other side has a move to poach, I'll move back to the service line to defend this poach.

situation 2: if my partner at the baseline returned a short and high ball, I'll move back to the service line to defend this weak return.

my partner, who is more experienced than me in doubles asks me not to move back in situation 2 because it makes it even harder to defend the weak shot when I am at the service line than I am right above the net.

so in situation 2 what should I do? it happens a lot when I play mixed when my partner often returns a weak shot when I am at the net.

If you're not worried about being drilled, and have really good reflexes, go ahead and stay at the net.

 

[TennisCJC]

Personally, I never start with my feet behind the service line. Even if my partner hits a floater and I know I am going to take some heat, I position myself about a yard inside the service line. I also start about a yard inside the service line when my partner returns. The only time I move back behind the service line is when my partner hits a short lob that is high enough for me to move back near the baseline. Other than that I stay inside the service line and try to make a reflex volley, or I bail and turn around if they have a total floater and are about to kill me.

 

[LuckyR]

assume I am at the net and my partner is at the baseline.


situation 1: if I see the net person on the other side has a move to poach, I'll move back to the service line to defend this poach.

situation 2: if my partner at the baseline returned a short and high ball, I'll move back to the service line to defend this weak return.

my partner, who is more experienced than me in doubles asks me not to move back in situation 2 because it makes it even harder to defend the weak shot when I am at the service line than I am right above the net.

so in situation 2 what should I do? it happens a lot when I play mixed when my partner often returns a weak shot when I am at the net.

Does he mean it is harder for you to defend the shot? If so, your opinion is more important than his, forget his advice and do what helps you best.

One piece of info I will pass along is that for those of us who volley well and have good reflexes, one lucky return of a "putaway" sent your way by the other team, will make them do weird things later in the match, like hit overheads that you could never defend at the net, to your partner at the baseline, who can easily send up a lob so both of you can get back to the baseline for a great defence.

 

[taurussable]

to clarify a few things:

If I am at the net and my partner at the baseline sent a weak shot cross court. I anticipate a few outcomes
1 they hit a winner
2 they hit the cross court back to my partner
3 they drill the shot DTL to me

I can't do anything for 1&2, what I am only concerned is to how to defend if 3 happens.

my reasoning of moving back a bit to the service line is that I have more time to react.

so here is my partner's reasoning: if I move to the service line, I'd have to hit a low volley and probably pop the volley up. not to mention often I can't get the ball back to play. But if I were still on top of the net. I might be able to block the ball back and down to the court.

my partner's overall idea is: it is much easier to hit a volley on top of the net, it gets increasingly difficult to volley when I move away from the net

 

[tennis_ocd]

situation 2: if my partner at the baseline returned a short and high ball, I'll move back to the service line to defend this weak return.
.....
so in situation 2 what should I do? it happens a lot when I play mixed when my partner often returns a weak shot when I am at the net.

Amusing to see a partner hitting a short high ball telling others what to do.....

If not really that short/high (or opponent lacks a hard oh/volley and you're not going to simply turn your back and surrender) it's a trade-off. Moving up cuts the angles and can keep the ball from hitting your feet at the loss of a couple milliseconds of response time. They are fun shots to volley back when you get a quick/lucky racket on it.

 

[tennis_ocd]

to clarify a few things:

If I am at the net and my partner at the baseline sent a weak shot cross court. I anticipate a few outcomes
1 they hit a winner
2 they hit the cross court back to my partner
3 they drill the shot DTL to me

I can't do anything for 1&2, what I am only concerned is to how to defend if 3 happens.

my reasoning of moving back a bit to the service line is that I have more time to react.

so here is my partner's reasoning: if I move to the service line, I'd have to hit a low volley and probably pop the volley up. not to mention often I can't get the ball back to play. But if I were still on top of the net. I might be able to block the ball back and down to the court.

my partner's overall idea is: it is much easier to hit a volley on top of the net, it gets increasingly difficult to volley when I move away from the net

In that scenario I agree with your partner. Move forward, bend the knees and use the net to protect your chest down. (If the ball is very short and the guy has a crushing FH bend even lower.)

 

[taurussable]

Amusing to see a partner hitting a short high ball telling others what to do.....

If not really that short/high (or opponent lacks a hard oh/volley and you're not going to simply turn your back and surrender) it's a trade-off. Moving up cuts the angles and can keep the ball from hitting your feet at the loss of a couple milliseconds of response time. They are fun shots to volley back when you get a quick/lucky racket on it.

my fault of being very precise. I should say weak shot instead of short and high shots instead. If the ball is so short and high that my opponent can smack it back at me, then I would have surrendered already.

I am more interested in how to position when my partner sends a weak shot from the baseline that puts our team into a sort of defensive situation.

 

[LeeD]

Don't listen to your partner, it's YOUR jewels that you have to defend.
At the service line, you can defend most overheads hit less than 75 mph, or almost all poach volleys you can reach. Remember, if it's a sitter for the netperson, it's best for you to take a step into the center area as your opponent strikes the ball, until he figures out you're covering the middle.
If you stay mid service court position, you open up angled center volleys, that pass you up the middle, but is too wide for your partner to cover.
Now for sure, if the netperson only angles his poach's, you don't step to the center.

 

[tennis_ocd]

I am more interested in how to position when my partner sends a weak shot from the baseline that puts our team into a sort of defensive situation.

If I sense the lob isn't coming or have a partner that I know is able to cover, anything baseline or deeper I'm comfortably moving forward. Very short -- the guy isn't going to have time to set up and is running forward, I step forward and take away the soft lob or drop shot.

Weak balls around service line that are going to give the opponent time to set up are the problem and.... it depends. If the guy hits hard and is the type to go right at me I'll likely move back (but be telling myself to split and be moving forward on volley.) If he's the type to hit more slowly and aim at my feet I'll come forward.

I find one of the great joys of doubles is being able to handle an opponents hard drive at you and volley it back for a winner or put pressure on.... If a guy is really going to go all out with a big FH at me from inside the court I am much more vulnerable at the service line than crouched behind the net.

 

[taurussable]

If I sense the lob isn't coming or have a partner that I know is able to cover, anything baseline or deeper I'm comfortably moving forward. Very short -- the guy isn't going to have time to set up and is running forward, I step forward and take away the soft lob or drop shot.

Weak balls around service line that are going to give the opponent time to set up are the problem and.... it depends. If the guy hits hard and is the type to go right at me I'll likely move back (but be telling myself to split and be moving forward on volley.) If he's the type to hit more slowly and aim at my feet I'll come forward.

I find one of the great joys of doubles is being able to handle an opponents hard drive at you and volley it back for a winner or put pressure on.... If a guy is really going to go all out with a big FH at me from inside the court I am much more vulnerable at the service line than crouched behind the net.

nice analysis. my partner probably is thinking the same as the bolded part above and wanted me to stay above the net.

 

[movdqa]

If I have a sitter at the service line and the opposite person is at the net, then I have DTL, sharp-angle crosscourt and the topspin lob as options. The sharp-angle crosscourt shot doesn't have to have a lot of pace and even a sliced lob can give someone moving into the net a lot of trouble.

One guy that I play doubles against has a 120+ mph serve and he's 6'5". Another guy that I play again probably can serve at 110 mph and he is murder on volleys close to the net and has a great short game (power, touch and spin). If he's at the net and I'm back at the baseline he often goes with a heavy-slices angle shot. It's not technically a drop-shot but it's just as unreachable.

 

[taurussable]

I am in white at near side
after my partner pop up the return I immediately moved back, luckily the server didn't finish this point.

now I think I do stand too far from the net in this point and maybe I should poach the cross court away before the server hit the dtl to me.

what do you think?

http://youtu.be/ixK9U9rHl0Y

 

[movdqa]

I am in white at near side
after my partner pop up the return I immediately moved back, luckily the server didn't finish this point.

now I think I do stand too far from the net in this point and maybe I should poach the cross court away before the server hit the dtl to me.

what do you think?

http://youtu.be/ixK9U9rHl0Y

1) I think that your partner should have moved into the net.
2) Your movement seemed fine. Yes, you could have gone for a poach but did the player in black hit anything that would have been returned as a drop volley that would provide a better risk/rewards that she couldn't also hit it down the line?
3) Your volley back to her looked like it put pressure on the next stroke but a volley cross-court may have been more effective. Having two up would have added pressure.

Just watched it again and didn't see any real poaching opportunities.

 

[tennis_ocd]

That's a nice volley! Server should have gone right at your feet when you stepped back rather than going cross court. I think you should've drifted over and up ... mirroring the ball.

 

[MisterP]

I am in white at near side
after my partner pop up the return I immediately moved back, luckily the server didn't finish this point.

now I think I do stand too far from the net in this point and maybe I should poach the cross court away before the server hit the dtl to me.

what do you think?

http://youtu.be/ixK9U9rHl0Y

Definitely a little too far back after the pop up return from your partner. Where you are standing he has very many options to hurt you. I would pretty much do what you did (guard the line) just at or slightly inside the service line and 100% ready to take a shot to the body. Definitely don't want to poach there.

 

[taurussable]

I started at the service line when my partner receives, so after the pop up return should I move to the center of service box and go from there?

 

[tennis_ocd]

I started at the service line when my partner receives, so after the pop up return should I move to the center of service box and go from there?

I believe you want to go with the ball.... that is, keep the ball in front of you. If he returns wide move up and to the alley; returns up the middle go forward and slightly to center.

Self preservation instincts are to step back but I think you become even more vulnerable. If a guy truly has a fearsome (out of level) FH play back but with practice I've been surprised to see how quickly I can move the racket and defend myself.

 

[Rui]

Your starting position is fine. However, once the return goes by the net man, move up to take a shot at your feet away. Server likely goes cc; so you move back to handle net man's poach. Repeat until something changes.

 

[MisterP]

I believe you want to go with the ball.... that is, keep the ball in front of you. If he returns wide move up and to the alley; returns up the middle go forward and slightly to center.

I agree with this.

You pretty much did do this - you stayed wide-ish, protecting the line - but your positioning was a little too far back, which exposes you to a lot of different types of attacks. If I had been the guy on the other side of the court, I would have seen your too-far-back positioning and gone at your feet and come into net for the follow-up put away.

From your perspective, if you are in the correct position, which is closer to the net, it will be much harder for him to hit your feet. That means you get a chance to hit a volley above or at the net height and neutralize his attack.

 

[LeeD]

I think OP did everything right except the first ROS, where he automatically stepped back to the service line.
The return was not strong, was not deep, but acceptable, and on the first ball, you have to force the server to play sharp CC first and foremost.
After that first shot, he stayed in position, watched the DTL, and did just fine.
I don't thing the service returner, his partner, should go to net on a short ROS that doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. A short ROS that underspin and skids, or a high heavy topspin ROS, can be an effective approach ROS.

 

[tennis_ocd]

I think OP did everything right except the first ROS, where he automatically stepped back to the service line.
The return was not strong, was not deep, but acceptable, and on the first ball, you have to force the server to play sharp CC first and foremost.
After that first shot, he stayed in position, watched the DTL, and did just fine.
I don't thing the service returner, his partner, should go to net on a short ROS that doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. A short ROS that underspin and skids, or a high heavy topspin ROS, can be an effective approach ROS.

Agree. Aside from instinctively stepping back (and well past service line) well played. I'd have silently chided myself for not getting the volley between the two players but OP did a nice job getting it back deep.

Had the server hit a ground stroke directly at the OP on the weak return things could've gotten quite difficult.

(Both net players could have feigned a poach with a step and lean -- tried to disrupt the cross court rhythm but this takes much more energy than most want to exert.)

 

[LuckyR]

to clarify a few things:

If I am at the net and my partner at the baseline sent a weak shot cross court. I anticipate a few outcomes
1 they hit a winner
2 they hit the cross court back to my partner
3 they drill the shot DTL to me

I can't do anything for 1&2, what I am only concerned is to how to defend if 3 happens.

my reasoning of moving back a bit to the service line is that I have more time to react.

so here is my partner's reasoning: if I move to the service line, I'd have to hit a low volley and probably pop the volley up. not to mention often I can't get the ball back to play. But if I were still on top of the net. I might be able to block the ball back and down to the court.

my partner's overall idea is: it is much easier to hit a volley on top of the net, it gets increasingly difficult to volley when I move away from the net

Thanks for the clarification.

Since the weak shot is going to be struck as a groundstroke (not an overhead or high volley, as most assumed), it depends on how far forward the opponent is going to be when he hits the ball, if he is much closer to the baseline than the service line, then I would be in second volley position, perhaps closer to the net than you started if your partner's shot is a service return or exactly where you are already standing if it is durting a rally.

OTOH, if he is going to be closer to the service line I would back up a step (not all the way back to the service line) or so to give myself a fraction of a second more reaction time without giving up too much for topspinny half volleys.