Expectated serve speed vs player height?

[dominikk1985]

Height and longer arms help, because you have a longer path of acceleration and can hit down on a steeper angle (=shorter into the service box and less errors).

Mechanics is also very important.

But the most important thing like in throwing is having a fast arm. you can't train that, since it depends on how the muscle fibres in your arm and shoulder are composed. some have a fast arm and some don't.


So if you don't have the fastest arm you might consider working on other points than serve speed.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, a 5'10" skinny TimLincicum can throw as fast as a 6'10" RandyJohnson.

 

[Tsonga nDance]

Becker, 5'10, serves 136. 130's consistently. Serves variety serves at 120s.

 

[kiteboard]

I've been spending a lot of time correcting my service motion and still foot fault enough that I need to start two steps back from the baseline but I serve over 100 with consistency. Today I filmed myself hitting 120 for the first time. I'm 6'5 and 32 years old. Took me two years to hit 100 and the last 6 months to go from 105 to 115. I started using my legs more and that's when they all started going over 110. I can't say for sure what it is but I haven't run into any people at my level of play that can serve this fast. Most who can are 4.5+ and I'm barely touching 4.0. I pronate naturally too. Got myself on a high framerate camera and couldn't believe my eyes. Maybe I was born with a racquet in my hand?

It's too bad I never utilized this skill when I was young enough to make it more than a casual thing.

Very rare for a 4.0! Rare period.

 

[mxmx]

But surely having a strong arm is not what its about? I'm sure timing and using your legs and whatnot, is more important than being able to throw a ball well? Basically what im referring to, is that one shouldn't muscle a serve with the arm...right?

 

[dmt]

I have been hitting the back fence with one bounce and its definately about chest height. Does that really mean i am serving between 90-100mph?

 

[mxmx]

If one has to guess, i think it is possible. But thats only guessing.

Personally i return better against big flat servers. Its the medium angled ones or the extreme moving kick serves that become more problematic...

 

[alidisperanza]

Height and longer arms help, because you have a longer path of acceleration and can hit down on a steeper angle (=shorter into the service box and less errors).

Mechanics is also very important.

But the most important thing like in throwing is having a fast arm. you can't train that, since it depends on how the muscle fibres in your arm and shoulder are composed. some have a fast arm and some don't.


So if you don't have the fastest arm you might consider working on other points than serve speed.

Mechanics are crucially important-- the concept of hitting a fast serve is one and the same as throwing a knockout punch: Kinetic Linkage.

If you can't transition power and torque from your legs, through your hips rotating up to your shoulders and arms you will hit a terminal velocity very quickly. Take it from someone who's been there. I used to muscle the ball in HS. I had an almost perpendicular stance to the baseline and swung everything I could into the ball. (I'm 6'2 22yo) I was able to hit an impressive high of 110 in HS off a radar gun but there was absolutely no sense of rhyme, reason, or consistency. After years of practice and hundreds of balls, I learned to (better, not quite there yet!) use my legs, rotate my hips and shoulders in addition to the snap. Now, I can serve over 100 consistently for 2 sets.

Another thing to keep in mind. Fast is great but the ball may not have any weight to it. Fast with a measure of spin knocks the racquet back and forces errors more readily.

 

[LeeD]

Effective serves can be dead flat with good placement.
Effective serves can be spun slightly (compared to second serves) without perfect placement.
Effective serves can be sitter balls to an opponent who can't return them well.
There are many types of serves, and each one CAN be effective if used against the correct opponent.
Hitting a "heavy" ball is just ONE factor in determining a good serve or groundstroke. That would be about 20% of the equation at most.

 

[Kevo]

But on a flat serve, you can probably get some sort of estimate based on where it hits the back fence (off of the first bounce). On a flat serve, if you are hitting the back fence, chest-high, off the first bounce... that is at least 100mph. Probably more like 110-120 mph. If it hits at waist-high, that is probably 100 to 110mph. If it is knee-high and below... probably 90-105mph.

That's very rough guesstimating. Serves are hit with a wide variety of spin and you can hit the back fence with a serve traveling as little as 50-55mph. So I'd say your guidelines are potentially 20-30mph too high.

Of course, this can vary based on your own height and the height of thte serve contact point.

But honestly, don't worry about the actual number so much. An 80mph serve that is consistent and well-placed is far, far better than a 100mph serve that is low percentage and unpredictable.

This is what people really need to get. 80mph well placed is a winning serve most of the time. So having speed is nice, but you need accuracy, spin, and variety as well. 2nd serve is more important than 1st IMO.

 

[LeeD]

I think player height and contact point, the strikezone, determines the bounce height of the serve at the baseboard. That, along with air temps, abrasiveness of the court surface, type of ball used, altitude, wind, humidity, and maybe a few other factors.
I usually state my expected first flat serves around 110. That would equate to bellybutton high bounce at backboard, ball IN of course, 55 degree air temps, 60% humidity, slippery fast cement courts, the heaviest and fuzzinest balls availible in California, the DunlopHDHardCourtChampionships with extra knap.
I've bounced first serves consistently at shoulder heights on hot days, abrasive courts, Wilson balls, but I play poorly in such conditions.

 

[corners]

Studies of baseball players have established a clear correlation between height and maximum batspeed. No reason to think tennis is any different. (Of course there are always individual exceptions - Chang, Henin, etc.)

Taller players hit the serve from a higher point (assuming everyone isn't jumping too much) and so have a larger window between the top of the net and the service line through which they can serve. The window shrinks the faster the serve.

Therefore, if you are shorter your serve will probably be slower, which opens up that window (thank goodness). If you are taller you can take 10 mph off your serve, thereby opening the window and improving your serve percentage. (Roddick in recent years is serving slower but with a ridiculous 1st serve percentage.)

Tall players have an advantage in biomechanics (they can serve faster, all other things being equal) and in margin for error (that "acceptance window"). Karlovic is happy about this.

 

[LeeD]

What?
Supposing one BarryBonds was a big hitter, he was just over 6' tall at most. I stood about 50' away from him at a restaurant, and he's barely taller than me.
I think BIGGER GUY can hit a baseball farther than smaller guys.
But throw, no way. TimLincicum is 5'11" in his stocking feet. There's plenty of sub 6' fastball pitchers in baseball.
Leverage and angle, I'd agree. But the single most important factor in fast serving is desire and practice. You need no height to go there, as long as you're taller than mid 5's.

 

[adrian10spro]

Last time I clocked in my serve was 4 months ago, and I am 5'0". But my fastest serve was 103, and this was in the box. I guess for those that don't have the height use more of their leg strength to get power on their serve. So, I don't think height gives much of an advantage or disadvantage when serving.

 

[UCSF2012]

You can adjust the moment of inertia of your racket, and that'll affect how the ball moves thru the air. Your contact point changes too. In particular, you can make the ball dip down more as it travels from your racket to the court.

In effect, you can be short, but the ball lands well in into the court and your service percentage increases.

 

[fruitytennis1]

The reason the bigger guy can usually crush the ball is he can swing his warclub as fast as others can swing a (normal bat)

 

[CoachingMastery]

I know that this has been covered well by others. There are a couple points that I wanted to throw in.

Size contributes like anything else...to angle of trajectory, leverage, overall strength, etc.

However, percentage of POTENTIAL serve speed is dependent on technique as many have mentioned correctly.

Have you ever seen a really strong...but very unskilled tennis player serve, or try to serve hard? Their motion is so wild and usually the term "muscled" comes to mind.

Watch a skilled person serve, girl, boy, man woman, tall, short, big, thin: they serve with fluid motion and an economy of motion that looks nothing like our muscular server.

I've had girls under 5'5" serve over 110 mph...(and a few do it when they were only 15 years old!). These students serve with good mechanics that allow for maximum racquet head speed, which, combined with the proper swing PATH allows for maximum ball speed with optimal clearance over the net to still land in the court.

So, in a nut shell, no matter what height you are, you have the potential to serve over 100 mph, unless you are handicaped, or have some other prohibitive issue.

The problems I see when observing most players trying to hit a faster serve are:

1. They try to serve using an eastern forehand grip. (Limits full action of the forearm, limits the ability to create a more effective axis of spin.)

2. They swing with the arm and body, thinking that they need to employ large muscle groups.

3. They pull down too early with the hitting elbow. (This prohibits the racquet from achieving maximum racquet head speed at the moment of contact.)

4. They face the net too early. (This increases the tendency for 1, 2, & 3!)

 

[LeeD]

Can't compare beginner servers to those skilled.
We're talking height and leverage, and taller can easier get the rackethead speed, given the skills.
But what is taller? I'm sure Dr.Ivo can get some rackethead speed with bad technique. But can any 5'6" player? Nope, they need perfect technique.
So a short guy serving as fast as a really tall guy takes more technique.
But which is faster? Depends who can serve faster, plain and simple.

 

[alidisperanza]

What?
Supposing one BarryBonds was a big hitter, he was just over 6' tall at most. I stood about 50' away from him at a restaurant, and he's barely taller than me.
I think BIGGER GUY can hit a baseball farther than smaller guys.
But throw, no way. TimLincicum is 5'11" in his stocking feet. There's plenty of sub 6' fastball pitchers in baseball.
Leverage and angle, I'd agree. But the single most important factor in fast serving is desire and practice. You need no height to go there, as long as you're taller than mid 5's.

You're also forgetting the net in baseball... tricky little bugger

 

[LeeD]

How high is the net in baseball?
I just don't know.