Facing fast and low balls

[pico]

I am a 4.0 player and do well against most players at my level. I play one guy who hits a fast and low shot with barely any topspin. I have a semi-western forehand and I am having troubles getting balls back to him. I try to get under but end up over-hitting or dumping into the net...point being - I cant hit clean against those shots most of the time.
I would appreciate technical advice. Also, would an 18 x 20 pattern help?

 

[jhick]

Probably need to adjust to more of a flat or slice shot and maybe adjust your grip to more eastern.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Slice on both sides when you play that particular guy. He won’t be hitting fast and hard off of that type of shot.

 

[pico]

Slice on both sides when you play that particular guy. He won’t be hitting fast and hard off of that type of shot.

I do notice high topspin balls and slices trouble him.

 

[pico]

Another thing I noticed abt myself is that I get sucked into hitting fast too. Its contagious lol. I need to work on staying in the rally more.

 

[jhick]

Another thing I noticed abt myself is that I get sucked into hitting fast too. Its contagious lol. I need to work on staying in the rally more.

Yeah you'll have to be more patient, as he likely won't give you a lot of winner opportunities. Move him around to make him uncomfortable. Sometimes attack the net if you're comfortable as typically it's harder for a flatter hitter to hit good passing shots.

 

[fundrazer]

Another thing I noticed abt myself is that I get sucked into hitting fast too. Its contagious lol. I need to work on staying in the rally more.

Well there's different ways to look at this. One way to protect yourselves from guys like this is to get the first strike in. If you get the right ball to go after, do it. Try to put him under pressure and force him to go for too much. If you just give him rally balls and don't make him uncomfortable during a rally, he might not miss. Have to find the right balance here. Some guys, yeah, they will start to spray if you make em hit like 5+ balls in a row.

And +1 on mixing in more slices. Was mentioning to another one of my buds on here a strategy I've been employing against one of the regulars at our club. He can't drive or generate enough topspin on his forehand oddly enough. Slicing to his forehand forces him into a pattern that lets me play a forehand 99% of the time on the next shot. Good setup pattern for me and will probably generate errors from your opponent too.

 

[Dragy]

From technical standpoint, get a bit lower, expect to hit low ones. And let those come to your side, close your stance rather than face it open and in front. Last, but not least, lift it by swinging outward, “carving around”, rather than straight forward.

From shot selection standpoint, go for slices, go for low angles topspins (not very hard) if opportunity is there. Or lift it and go for depths, not speed.

From tactics standpoint, avoid his strikezone: dictate more high-bounce game from the serve/return, and when you cannot, keep it even lower with slice. Better low and short than deeper, but into his perfect height.

 

[pico]

I understand technically what should be done now. Thanks guys. From a gear perspective, would a low flex racquet help in absorbing the pace and shooting it back more consistently? Currently I use a PAVS.

 

[Dragy]

I understand technically what should be done now. Thanks guys. From a gear perspective, would a low flex racquet help in absorbing the pace and shooting it back more consistently? Currently I use a PAVS.

I think the only gear issue against hard hitter may be small sweetspot/instability. If you don’t shank, you’ll be good. If not, focus more on clean hitting, or go for more stable and forgiving racquet (like Ezone 100, for example, or any other).

 

[sureshs]

I am a 4.0 player and do well against most players at my level. I play one guy who hits a fast and low shot with barely any topspin. I have a semi-western forehand and I am having troubles getting balls back to him. I try to get under but end up over-hitting or dumping into the net...point being - I cant hit clean against those shots most of the time.
I would appreciate technical advice. Also, would an 18 x 20 pattern help?

I use 18*20 and I can tell you that it has a much lower launch angle than a 16*19. You will find it harder to get net clearance than you already do.

 

[LeftySlice860]

I'm surprised most of the advice here has been to try to avoid giving him balls to tee off on or use different gear. Those are indirect responses to the OPs problem.

The technical adjustment for these shots is pretty straightforward, but will take some practice. Again you don't want to try to avoid these shots because good players will hit these balls to you and it's unavoidable sometimes. Also don't change your forehand grip to eastern.

1) Get low (prevents dumping into net). Bend your knees and get your racket path to the level of the ball. Keep your knees bent through contact and don't stand up as you're in the process of completing your swing. Stand up only after you've completed your follow through. If you are hitting these type of shots mostly standing up, what's happening is you're probably hitting over the top of the ball and dumping into net.

2.) Guide the ball more. If you're dumping these balls into net, that probably also means you are shortening your follow through and not extending your racket all the way through the path to get it to go farther and deeper. Guiding the ball straighter will lead to a flatter shot, which is slightly more risky with your SW grip and the ball being lower. Guiding forward but also upward will give you more of a topspin shot.

2) Close your racket face. Getting under the ball is good. You have a semi-western that's good too in terms of keeping the ball sailing long but sounds like when you sail the ball long you are meeting the power of the ball with a good amount of your own racket head speed. This much total power from incoming ball and outgoing hitter will sail the ball unless you are conscious of your racket face not being too open.

Without a ball machine this is hard to simulate. You could have a partner feed you balls close to the baseline that are basically squash shots from the feeder but not too slicey because that's a different shot.

The final thing I'll say is that these types of shots probably come in with a lot of pace. You don't necessarily have to hit these back with pace also. You can use the player's pace to just get the ball back. So basically don't feel like you need big time acceleration on your swing to respond. More acceleration will lead to more errors at the 4.0 level because you probably don't have enough muscle memory or clean technique to be very consistent with this speed. Slow down a little. Just need to get these back over

 

[pico]

I'm surprised most of the advice here has been to try to avoid giving him balls to tee off on or use different gear. Those are indirect responses to the OPs problem.

The technical adjustment for these shots is pretty straightforward, but will take some practice. Again you don't want to try to avoid these shots because good players will hit these balls to you and it's unavoidable sometimes. Also don't change your forehand grip to eastern.

1) Get low (prevents dumping into net). Bend your knees and get your racket path to the level of the ball. Keep your knees bent through contact and don't stand up as you're in the process of completing your swing. Stand up only after you've completed your follow through. If you are hitting these type of shots mostly standing up, what's happening is you're probably hitting over the top of the ball and dumping into net.

2.) Guide the ball more. If you're dumping these balls into net, that probably also means you are shortening your follow through and not extending your racket all the way through the path to get it to go farther and deeper. Guiding the ball straighter will lead to a flatter shot, which is slightly more risky with your SW grip and the ball being lower. Guiding forward but also upward will give you more of a topspin shot.

2) Close your racket face. Getting under the ball is good. You have a semi-western that's good too in terms of keeping the ball sailing long but sounds like when you sail the ball long you are meeting the power of the ball with a good amount of your own racket head speed. This much total power from incoming ball and outgoing hitter will sail the ball unless you are conscious of your racket face not being too open.

Without a ball machine this is hard to simulate. You could have a partner feed you balls close to the baseline that are basically squash shots from the feeder but not too slicey because that's a different shot.

The final thing I'll say is that these types of shots probably come in with a lot of pace. You don't necessarily have to hit these back with pace also. You can use the player's pace to just get the ball back. So basically don't feel like you need big time acceleration on your swing to respond. More acceleration will lead to more errors at the 4.0 level because you probably don't have enough muscle memory or clean technique to be very consistent with this speed. Slow down a little. Just need to get these back over

Thank you. Very helpful. Yes - I do try to hit these with some good racquet head speed often. It is addictive - I feed off his energy lol. I will try to be more conscious of this and slow down.

 

[LuckyR]

I am a 4.0 player and do well against most players at my level. I play one guy who hits a fast and low shot with barely any topspin. I have a semi-western forehand and I am having troubles getting balls back to him. I try to get under but end up over-hitting or dumping into the net...point being - I cant hit clean against those shots most of the time.
I would appreciate technical advice. Also, would an 18 x 20 pattern help?

You sound like one of my victims. I am contractually obligated not to reveal the solution to your problem. Sorry.

 

[optic yellow]

The two shots that defeat this are the slice and the scoop block.

 

[pico]

The two shots that defeat this are the slice and the scoop block.

The slice and the squash shot made me victorious yesterday!!!!!!

 

[ChaelAZ]

I am a 4.0 player and do well against most players at my level. I play one guy who hits a fast and low shot with barely any topspin. I have a semi-western forehand and I am having troubles getting balls back to him. I try to get under but end up over-hitting or dumping into the net...point being - I cant hit clean against those shots most of the time.
I would appreciate technical advice. Also, would an 18 x 20 pattern help?

See the squash and slice worked. For me I also make it a point to get low in a VERy deep knee bend to get under the ball if I need to hit with spin and pace.

 

[pico]

See the squash and slice worked. For me I also make it a point to get low in a VERy deep knee bend to get under the ball if I need to hit with spin and pace.

I did alright for this but when I didn't, I either dumped it into the net or hit long.

 

[Goof]

I'm surprised most of the advice here has been to try to avoid giving him balls to tee off on or use different gear. Those are indirect responses to the OPs problem.

The technical adjustment for these shots is pretty straightforward, but will take some practice. Again you don't want to try to avoid these shots because good players will hit these balls to you and it's unavoidable sometimes. Also don't change your forehand grip to eastern.

1) Get low (prevents dumping into net). Bend your knees and get your racket path to the level of the ball. Keep your knees bent through contact and don't stand up as you're in the process of completing your swing. Stand up only after you've completed your follow through. If you are hitting these type of shots mostly standing up, what's happening is you're probably hitting over the top of the ball and dumping into net.

2.) Guide the ball more. If you're dumping these balls into net, that probably also means you are shortening your follow through and not extending your racket all the way through the path to get it to go farther and deeper. Guiding the ball straighter will lead to a flatter shot, which is slightly more risky with your SW grip and the ball being lower. Guiding forward but also upward will give you more of a topspin shot.

2) Close your racket face. Getting under the ball is good. You have a semi-western that's good too in terms of keeping the ball sailing long but sounds like when you sail the ball long you are meeting the power of the ball with a good amount of your own racket head speed. This much total power from incoming ball and outgoing hitter will sail the ball unless you are conscious of your racket face not being too open.

Without a ball machine this is hard to simulate. You could have a partner feed you balls close to the baseline that are basically squash shots from the feeder but not too slicey because that's a different shot.

The final thing I'll say is that these types of shots probably come in with a lot of pace. You don't necessarily have to hit these back with pace also. You can use the player's pace to just get the ball back. So basically don't feel like you need big time acceleration on your swing to respond. More acceleration will lead to more errors at the 4.0 level because you probably don't have enough muscle memory or clean technique to be very consistent with this speed. Slow down a little. Just need to get these back over

This post has the best technical advice IMO.

My tactical advice: get him to play on your higher (ball-height-wise) level. Moonball him a bit until his shots start coming up a bit higher. Then press your advantage from there.

 

[socallefty]

When someone hits flat and hard, it is always good to change the rhythm by changing your pace, trajectory, use slice etc. If you don’t give them pace, many of them will make more errors trying to generate their own pace especially on the run. However if they can generate their own pace and be consistent, then you have to try other methods like deep moonballs, short angles to take them off the court, coming to net more (flat passes should be more error-prone) off low approaches etc.

Also be patient as the flat shots that are difficult to handle with new balls with become easier once the balls get older/slower later in the match. You can often come back from being a set down against these players easier than against those who hit with more spin.

 

[mental midget]

I am a 4.0 player and do well against most players at my level. I play one guy who hits a fast and low shot with barely any topspin. I have a semi-western forehand and I am having troubles getting balls back to him. I try to get under but end up over-hitting or dumping into the net...point being - I cant hit clean against those shots most of the time.
I would appreciate technical advice. Also, would an 18 x 20 pattern help?

don't worry about the string pattern. here's what you do: firmer grip. get low instead of having to drop the racket face. square your racket face and abbreviate your swing to more of a back-and-through stroke....picture connors's groundies honestly. it should work.

 

[onehandbh]

@pico does your opponent hit Flatspin shots?

And also Flatarc shots?

And Heavyfeather shots?

 

[pico]

@pico does your opponent hit Flatspin shots?

And also Flatarc shots?

And Heavyfeather shots?

Flatspin. What is heavyfeather?

 

[Fintft]

I'm surprised most of the advice here has been to try to avoid giving him balls to tee off on or use different gear. Those are indirect responses to the OPs problem.

The technical adjustment for these shots is pretty straightforward, but will take some practice. Again you don't want to try to avoid these shots because good players will hit these balls to you and it's unavoidable sometimes. Also don't change your forehand grip to eastern.

1) Get low (prevents dumping into net). Bend your knees and get your racket path to the level of the ball. Keep your knees bent through contact and don't stand up as you're in the process of completing your swing. Stand up only after you've completed your follow through. If you are hitting these type of shots mostly standing up, what's happening is you're probably hitting over the top of the ball and dumping into net.

2.) Guide the ball more. If you're dumping these balls into net, that probably also means you are shortening your follow through and not extending your racket all the way through the path to get it to go farther and deeper. Guiding the ball straighter will lead to a flatter shot, which is slightly more risky with your SW grip and the ball being lower. Guiding forward but also upward will give you more of a topspin shot.

2) Close your racket face. Getting under the ball is good. You have a semi-western that's good too in terms of keeping the ball sailing long but sounds like when you sail the ball long you are meeting the power of the ball with a good amount of your own racket head speed. This much total power from incoming ball and outgoing hitter will sail the ball unless you are conscious of your racket face not being too open.

Without a ball machine this is hard to simulate. You could have a partner feed you balls close to the baseline that are basically squash shots from the feeder but not too slicey because that's a different shot.

The final thing I'll say is that these types of shots probably come in with a lot of pace. You don't necessarily have to hit these back with pace also. You can use the player's pace to just get the ball back. So basically don't feel like you need big time acceleration on your swing to respond. More acceleration will lead to more errors at the 4.0 level because you probably don't have enough muscle memory or clean technique to be very consistent with this speed. Slow down a little. Just need to get these back over

That and @pico :
a) Do you split step, starting from a low, athletic position?
b) Do you take your racquet back in time? Meaning before the ball crosses the net, ideally.
For example I have trouble doing this with an extended racquet (27.25") and big SW against hard incoming balls. I'd rather use a standard length and a SW around 325.
c) Don't "hit out of your shoes", be smooth instead.
The coach has to always remind me to do this.
d) Lastly, maybe he has a weaker wing? I.e. I have a partner ("almost 5.0" and club champion) who hits his FH very hard and well, but his 1HBH is worse than mine, so I drag him into those exchanges.

 

[pico]

That and @pico :
a) Do you split step, starting from a low, athletic position?
b) Do you take your racquet back in time? Meaning before the ball crosses the net, ideally.
For example I have trouble doing this with an extended racquet (27.25") and big SW against hard incoming balls. I'd rather use a standard length and a SW around 325.
c) Don't "hit out of your shoes", be smooth instead.
The coach has to always remind me to do this.
d) Lastly, maybe he has a weaker wing? I.e. I have a partner ("almost 5.0" and club champion) who hits his FH very hard and well, but his 1HBH is worse than mine, so I drag him into those exchanges.

Thank you Fintft. I have been implementing some of your points already. His weakness might be fitness.