Federer Backhand Digitized - great stuff! Revolutionary.

markp

New User
The following link http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/braden/backhands/bh.free.php offers a free vidclip of Federer's and Clijster's backhand with the added instructional bonus of the players and strokes rendered in digitized form, or stick figures. This timely evidence that shows Federer's one handed backhand is offered by Vic Braden via the Ariel Performance Analysis System, or APAS, and we all should thank him for this. The photo sequence below taken off this vidclip shows how Federer's arm starts out bent, or folded across his stomach, and as the racket progresses to the contact spot the arm in effect unfolds, or unbends. In this example, as well as in many others, the arm clearly does not straighten to swing.

I know for a fact Vic would say he has groundstroke shots of Federer with a slight bend in the elbow as well as shots with a fairly straight arm, and that Federer's choice for these different approaches is an interesting open question to be answered. I'm sure you all would add it depends on the situation, the shot, the spin, the time, those kinds of things, and you'd be absolutely correct, but the thing to note is we can have both endings, slightly bent or fairly straight, and yet each Federer backhand clearly begins with the bending, unbending arm.

fed_backhand_braden_ASAP_thanks.jpg


It is crystal clear here the arm bends and unbends throughout the stroke. In no way does Federer straighten his arm to swing the racket down or up into the ball from the nadir of the swing, and neither does the butt cap go straight to the ball. This evidence vindicates http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step9.html that describes how the arm works to produce this stroke.

But there is certainly much, much more here to be enjoyed. An enthusiastic TW reader brought this vidclip to our attention but one self appointed bb tennis expert classlessly belittled the guy for his enthusiasm, and neither he nor a second "expert" could see this evidence right before them.

When you view the clip for yourself you will see many things, including an interesting twisting of the racket, validating wrist movement. But a large gem shown in the stills above uncovers the cornerstone to all one handers, be they flexible like Federer's or seemingly-straight like Robredo and Gasquet: the hand turning the racket face into the ball, no matter if you hit up the line or crosscourt. Photos 5 to 6 the body remains the same and the arm has moved imperceptibly, but what has occurred from 5 to 6 is the racket face has been turned into the ball for contact (as pros call it). Dramatically. How? The hand is responsible. The shoulder does not swing the racket, the arm does not swing the racket, it is the hand doing the heavy lifting throughout to ultimately turn the racket face into the ball.

In this manner all one handers share this core element - the hand turning the racket head into the ball - and it's a process that's being setup from the beginning. Some may actually straighten the arm to swing the racket or straighten it halfway through the upward/forward swing itself while retaining stroke fluidity as you see in some pros but this places a heavier load on that final turn than does retaining flexibility in the arm (and gives the false impression the butt cap or a straight arm plays a central role). As a teacher I try to counsel arm flexibility instead of rigidity for this, and as a player I never try to straighten the arm, or even think about straightening it when swinging at the ball.

Mark Papas
revolutionarytennis.com
rocking the boat
 

WildVolley

Legend
The arm doesn't start straight, but prior to, and through, impact it is essentially straight in frames 4,5,6.

The thing I agree with, is that locking the arm out in the backswing can look sort of awkward. But the pros hit through the ball with the arm straight.
 

Voltron

Hall of Fame
Jesus, I can't even understand what you're writing, let alone what it's trying to tell me. "Bending and unbending"? Honestly, I don't even understand that, let alone see anything that would make me say "his arm is bending and unbending". So I suppose you really are "revolutionary", but, like so many other revolutionaries, I suspect you are destined for failure.
 

The Gorilla

Banned
the turning of the hand and elbow are passive, it isn't flexion, it's a passive movement, it isn't the tiny weak, (highly susceptible to injury), tendons of the elbow that are used to swing the racquet, it is the rotation of the shoulders.
 
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Mountain Ghost

Professional
“Hand Action”

Photos 5 to 6 the body remains the same and the arm has moved imperceptibly, but what has occurred from 5 to 6 is the racket face has been turned into the ball for contact (as pros call it). Dramatically. How? The hand is responsible. The shoulder does not swing the racket, the arm does not swing the racket, it is the hand doing the heavy lifting throughout to ultimately turn the racket face into the ball.

If you were teaching this to a student, how would you describe this magical hand action that you believe is the root source of the “heavy lifting” (or racquet head movement) from frame 3 to frame 6? Since you observe that neither the shoulder nor the arm swing the racket, what specifically would you have the student focus on to achieve it?

MG
 

The Gorilla

Banned
Tennis elbow is generally caused by overuse of the extensor tendons of the forearm, particularly the extensor carpi radialis brevis. Commonly experienced by the amateur player, this injury is often a result of (1) a one-handed backhand with poor technique (the ball is hit with the front of the shoulder up and power generated from the forearm muscles),


http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/tennis_elbow/




SO, is this how does your hand turning, elbow leading backhand model works?
 

JCo872

Professional
In studying professional tennis strokes, it is very important we get a representative sample. Looking at the technique of one player - or looking at one INSTANCE of one player - is not good science.

As teachers, I think we need to look at what 99% of the players are doing, rather than the 1% that veer from the norm, even if that 1% is Roger Federer. As perfect a human being as Federer is, he and Sampras are the only two players I have ever seen that have more of a bend in the elbow.

So the question is - do we teach what the 99% of players are doing, or the 1% anomaly.

Here is more of a representative sample of what players do on this stroke:

more_straight.jpg


Here are the advantages to straightening the arm early on (when the arm drops before forward movement to the ball):

1) You prevent injury from the unnecessary joint movement in the elbow
2) You prevent timing problems from having to time joint movement along with the arm/lever. Straightening
the arm early on simplifies the stroke
3) You are guaranteed to have the arm straight on contact. If you play with the closing and opening of the elbow
joint, there is no guarantee that you will straighten things out by contact.

So to sum up - for reasons of timing, injury prevention, and proper contact - straightenting the arm by the drop phase is the way to go. Not to mention that my graphic has nine world class players doing exactly this.

One more from a guy that got to the finals of the French:

puerta.jpg
 
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RedWeb

Semi-Pro
Tennis elbow is generally caused by overuse of the extensor tendons of the forearm, particularly the extensor carpi radialis brevis. Commonly experienced by the amateur player, this injury is often a result of (1) a one-handed backhand with poor technique (the ball is hit with the front of the shoulder up and power generated from the forearm muscles),

SO, is this how does your hand turning, elbow leading backhand model works?

Gorilla, thanks for that link. I've been having "minor" TE problems and i'm hoping the exercises shown will help!
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Donde esta Marco? Marco...Polo...Marco...Polo...

Folks the bottom-line to all of this is players can have a bend in the elbow prior to contact and can straighten the elbow at various times as the racquet is coming forward. Some will prefer to straighten the arm sooner rather than later.

Still others will prefer to rotate through the shot as in the "modern" onehander. Others will prefer to maintain a lateral position, etc...

It is also obvious that the information that Vic provided shows that people do not "fold and unfold" the arm in the way that Mark shows on his website in a gate like fashion.
 
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