Fix My Kick Serve Please? (With Video)

[Roy125]

I finally found something to record myself with. My kick serves have forever been unreliable for me. I have watched so many videos of how to do it correctly online but none have worked for me. I've spent two years trying to have a good kicker but it never seems to work for me. I have other videos if the one I post isn't good enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybym3gEFSRc

Oh yeah, be blunt.

 

[Gene1994]

The lighting in the video is very dark..... hard to analyze anything....

But it looks like you're extremely off balance and your toss is all over the place. Try posting a video with better lighting and put the camera on a tripod so the video won't be so shaky.

 

[Roy125]

The lighting in the video is very dark..... hard to analyze anything....

But it looks like you're extremely off balance and your toss is all over the place. Try posting a video with better lighting and put the camera on a tripod so the video won't be so shaky.

Yesh, the video was taken right during sunset, so maybe that's why. That and it was my sister that was taking the video. :-?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[120mphBodyServe]

From what little I can see...
You don't get enough shoulder & hip rotation.
You are standing too front on to serve to begin with.
AND NO LEG DRIVE.... What the hell!?!?!?
I don't see you really brushing across the ball, either.
You've got a lot of work to do.

 

[Gene1994]

From what little I can see...
You don't get enough shoulder & hip rotation.
You are standing too front on to serve to begin with.
AND NO LEG DRIVE.... What the hell!?!?!?
I don't see you really brushing across the ball, either.
You've got a lot of work to do.

Yo man, you're in Portland, OR? Nice, I'm in Eugene

Are you a junior? Or?

 

[masterxfob]

there's quite a bit of work to be done on that serve. your feet look like they want to dance, your toss is way too far behind you for the kind of knee bend you're applying, and more...

for starters, work on applying more spin (hit 7-1 or 8-2) and less pace. try to hit the ball with the frame. Will explains it pretty well in his videos.

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/video-tennis-lessons/serve/kick-serve/swing-and-pronate/

i'd say what helped me the most when learning this serve was to serve on one knee from the service line and then moving back. it really forces you to hit up on the ball as opposed to through it.

 

[120mphBodyServe]

Yo man, you're in Portland, OR? Nice, I'm in Eugene

Are you a junior? Or?

My location is a joke/not factual.
And I'm not a junior. Far from it.
I'm in Sydney, Australia...

 

[Nellie]

You are not swinging up and through the ball. Instead, with your backwards toss, you are leaning way back to hit flat through the ball. Note, for example, that your racquet does not go through and above the ball as needed for topspin. Also, notice that, as contact, your shoulders are turned toward the net - meaning you could not swing up along the line of the baseline. Stay sideways until after contact so you can brush up and through the ball.

The way to think of a topspin/kick serve is that you have the same service motion, but because you toss back, you have contact during the up part of the swing (racqueting going up from the back scratch position) and not during the forward moving portion of the swing. If you just stretch back to do your normal flat contact at the more rear position, you can't get top spin.

 

[Gene1994]

My location is a joke/not factual.
And I'm not a junior. Far from it.
I'm in Sydney, Australia...

Oh ok, gotcha man

 

[rice&tennis]

You are not swinging up and through the ball. Instead, with your backwards toss, you are leaning way back to hit flat through the ball. Note, for example, that your racquet does not go through and above the ball as needed for topspin. Also, notice that, as contact, your shoulders are turned toward the net - meaning you could not swing up along the line of the baseline. Stay sideways until after contact so you can brush up and through the ball.

The way to think of a topspin/kick serve is that you have the same service motion, but because you toss back, you have contact during the up part of the swing (racqueting going up from the back scratch position) and not during the forward moving portion of the swing. If you just stretch back to do your normal flat contact at the more rear position, you can't get top spin.

so for more of a "spin" serve, you should keep your shoulders facing the side fence, while a "speed" serve you should have your shoulders parallel to the net ( at contact), right?

 

[Roy125]

so for more of a "spin" serve, you should keep your shoulders facing the side fence, while a "speed" serve you should have your shoulders parallel to the net ( at contact)

When you say parallel to the net, do you mean facing the net or something else?

 

[rice&tennis]

When you say parallel to the net, do you mean facing the net or something else?

hahah yea, but i'm not sure if its right

i THINK that this is what you are suppose to do

anyway, for pointers, even tho i suck at serves, is you are ending off balance, even though you are hitting behind you and stuff, you should still step forward, NOT side ways or at an angle

bend your knees more and load up more, and you're swinging too gently, in my experience, spin serves require faster racket speed than a regular serve

 

[GetBetterer]

As previously stated, your toss is all over the place. It's causing you to lean back which is what causes your body weight to shift to the left making you move leftwards.

When a website like FuzzyYellowBalls says to throw it behind you, it means not so far out as a flat serve so that it will be behind you after your foot push, not during the toss.

I want to say the toss is causing you trouble because it seems that because of the toss, your trophy pose is awkward, and your swing is awkward too. Try tossing the ball so that if you took half a footstep forward, it would land on your head.

 

[Blake0]

Thing's done wrong:
First off your left arm drops too early. Let it slowly drop as you swing up to the ball. Here's a good video on the left arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7dTkZ-EpM

Next thing is your trophy position, you don't have a clear one. You get to the trophy position, but you have barely anything coiled. When you loop your racket to go down to the backscratch position, your legs load up, but that's too late.

Next is the legs. It's loading too late. You're already past your trophy position and you're about to swing up on the ball as you load your legs (very little loading too).

Next thing is that you're going to the backscratch position consciously. It's not a bad thing to do, but it should happen naturally from having a loose arm and using the kinetic chain correctly.

Your toss is all over the place, you may hurt your shoulder trying to hit serves from that far back. It seems like you're tossing behind you and to the left of you, not good for your serve or shoulder. Truthfully good kick servers toss is in front of their body (not as far in front as flat serves) but aligned with their head, not to the left of it (from back view) so that when they jump into the serve they catch it under their head and their weight transfer is still going forward.

No followthrough. You're ending on your right side of the body and just stop swinging after you pronate. Followthrough all the way across the body so racket ends up on left side of the body. This should also help you get more acceleration through contact and a smoother serve.


Think of the serve as a 1-2 motion (load together, unload together). Start off, as your tossing arm and racket goes up, your body starts to coil and your legs start to bend. At your trophy positon, your racket should be pointing at the sky, left arm up (almost like pointing at the ball), knees bent, body coiled. Then everything starts to unload. Your legs start to straighten, your body uncoils, your arm gets slung back into the backscratch position, and you hit the ball and followthrough (think of it as throwing your body at the ball).

 

[TheFuture101]

This guy gets really nice kick on his serve... It looks like he is arming it though? Could someone shed some light on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksdP_cocKWA

 

[snvplayer]

Toss: It's actually NOT all over the place. It's just at a wrong place. It's too much to your left. For kick serve toss should land just left to your left foot (maybe half a foot to your left foot). There is obviously variation, but your toss is so extreme that it's making you lose your balance.

Left arm: You are keeping your head up long enough, but your left arm could stay up a little longer. Try to tuck your left arm as your bring it down.

Frankly, you shouldn't really be worrying about kick serve at this point because your motion needs a lot of work.

 

[Roy125]

Yeah, I just need a serve that can reliably go in right now. That's why I asked.

 

[masterxfob]

Yeah, I just need a serve that can reliably go in right now. That's why I asked.

in my opinion, i think a flat serve should be one of the last serves to be learned. this is the order in which i think serves should be learned: topspin > kick/twist > slice > flat. at the 4.0 level and under, shots with a lot of spin (top, side, and under) are very often misjudged and usually force UE's out of an opponent. kind of makes sense to gain that sort of advantage from the get go with a spin serve, no?

your serve as a whole does need work, but kick and topspin serves are great to have. you need to hit up on the ball more to add more spin for starters. check out the FYB video and work on that. your toss, trophy, and knee bend can be improved after you learn how to properly strike the ball.

 

[Roy125]

in my opinion, i think a flat serve should be one of the last serves to be learned. this is the order in which i think serves should be learned: topspin > kick/twist > slice > flat. at the 4.0 level and under, shots with a lot of spin (top, side, and under) are very often misjudged and usually force UE's out of an opponent. kind of makes sense to gain that sort of advantage from the get go with a spin serve, no?

your serve as a whole does need work, but kick and topspin serves are great to have. you need to hit up on the ball more to add more spin for starters. check out the FYB video and work on that. your toss, trophy, and knee bend can be improved after you learn how to properly strike the ball.

Having a spin serve that you know goes into the court 99% of the time is something very awesome to have. It's something I wish that I could have learned first before the flat serve. As it is however, the flat serve is a thousand times easier to learn than the topspin serve, which is why my coach taught it to me first.

 

[Zachol82]

Hey Roy, I would also like to suggest changing your grip just a little bit. Hold the racquet in your hand with your current kick-serve grip. Now, turn your racquet clock-wise just by 1 bevel and see how that works for you.

With your current grip, you have to really brush UPWARD on the ball to get the desirable kick. However, since most of your force is going upward, you are losing all that pace on your serves. By changing the grip to continental, or even a bit more extreme than continental, will allow you to get the same spin without having to brush UP so much. You can actually hit forward and still get the same amount of kick, or even more kick.

Changing your grip will take time to get used to. You may have to arch your back more in this case.

 

[Djlpenguin]

in my opinion, i think a flat serve should be one of the last serves to be learned. this is the order in which i think serves should be learned: topspin > kick/twist > slice > flat. at the 4.0 level and under, shots with a lot of spin (top, side, and under) are very often misjudged and usually force UE's out of an opponent. kind of makes sense to gain that sort of advantage from the get go with a spin serve, no?

your serve as a whole does need work, but kick and topspin serves are great to have. you need to hit up on the ball more to add more spin for starters. check out the FYB video and work on that. your toss, trophy, and knee bend can be improved after you learn how to properly strike the ball.

I do agree that a reliable topspin serve is great to have, but you really have to be good at it. No offense OP, but anyone who sees this cream puff kick is just going to eat it up. You're better off with a slice serve. To get the topspin serve as your second serve you really have to practice it and get confident. I disagree with learning topspin first then flat. Would you want a little 7 year old breaking and arching his back so much that he can't play when he's 40, or him just putting his racquet square on the ball?

 

[Roy125]

Hey Roy, I would also like to suggest changing your grip just a little bit. Hold the racquet in your hand with your current kick-serve grip. Now, turn your racquet clock-wise just by 1 bevel and see how that works for you.

With your current grip, you have to really brush UPWARD on the ball to get the desirable kick. However, since most of your force is going upward, you are losing all that pace on your serves. By changing the grip to continental, or even a bit more extreme than continental, will allow you to get the same spin without having to brush UP so much. You can actually hit forward and still get the same amount of kick, or even more kick.

Chaning your grip will take time to get used to. You may have to arch your back more in this case.

I'll take that advice. My kick serve can't get any worse, can it?

 

[Zachol82]

I'll take that advice. My kick serve can't get any worse, can it?

Actually, it can get worse haha.

Changing grip is a big deal...if you can't get the new grip right then you're in worse shape since you wont be used to your old grip either. You either have to go for it all the way, be patient and get the new grip down, or you don't go for it at all and try to improve on your current grip and what you have.

 

[charliefedererer]

A key to a successful serve is to maintain balance and control of your entire body throughout the serve.

But you are out of control and off balance all too quickly even during your tossing motion and going into your trophy position.

Watch the following video of how the pros toss, and how they maintain control and perfect balance. As their tossing arm goes up, they are turning away from the ball (coiling) and bending their knees. The tossing arm continues up to get the great shoulder angle you need to serve, and at the same time they continue to coil and go into a deeper knee bend, they form a more pronounced "bow" shape with their front hip forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIF-UaRUd6k

You need to toss with a purpose to get your serve off to a great start as explained in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZp90h-Ar8&feature=channel

 

[chriswt]

From my experience changing from a continental grip to an eastern backhand grip will force you to pronate more and allow you to add more topspin and the ball, which in turn will make your serves more consistent. Give it a try

 

[Nellie]

I would not change too much at once. You will just end up screwing up a dozen things and getting frustrated.

Start with you current grip and work on keeping your head up so you are swinging up and through the ball while keeping your feet on the ground. Once you have the feel for brushing up the back of the ball, you can work on something else. In fact - I would start without a takeback motion (Racquet above your head), toss overhead and swing with the racquet moving along the baseline so you brush up the back of the ball. You can work on better windup, legs, toss, follow-through for more power/spin, but you need to learn to spin the ball first.

 

[LeeD]

Man, that's bad.
You toss left...good.
You swing normal, BAD.
You fall left, BAD.
You swing weak and uncontrolled....really BAD.
Your swing needs to go to the right, upwards and forwards.
You need to follow the direction of your swing, either directly IN the court or to the right slightly, so you have body weight and kinetics behind your swing.
You need to play more tennis, to develop conditioning of your arms so you can swing fast and repeatedly with the SAME motion.... but not the motion you are doing now.