Hardcourt vs red clay

[Peter Szucs]

I was expecting this but its still kinda strange to me to see how different you hardcourt players think of the game than we claycourt players usually do. Not only at the pros level but also among amateurs. I am from Hungary/Europe, here we do play 99% on red clay. I read the hardcourter's notes with great respect.. and its funny to see a slightly different view of the apple we all eat.
Some that usually come up:

- Serve
Hardcourt players always talk about the serve as the No 1 shot of the game. Look at a racquet review and you will see that the most important thing for them in a racquet is how it serves. For us we usually think of the serve as an important shot but not as a pointmaker.: get it into the box to your opponents weaker side, add as much spin as you can, get a slight advantage by it. Different isnt it?

- Groundstrokes and volley
HC: they like to go for their shots, hit flat strokes, hit straight winners, get to the net asap, slice
Clay: we think of stability as being the most important, hit topspin, open angles, play effective defensive game

- Racquets
HC: heavy but very HL, small head racquets are very popular
Clay: Mid+ or bigger, head heavy is popular

Any other differences you can name pls dont hesitate.

 

[Voltron]

Clay : open stance

Hard : neutral or closed


I play both games, and use different grips, stances, and serves accordingly.

 

[Peter Szucs]

Clay : open stance

Hard : neutral or closed


I play both games, and use different grips, stances, and serves accordingly.

True. How much does it take for you to change from one to the other? Doesnt it confuse your game?

 

[Sagittar]

you can slide on clay , on HC you don't
sorry i just had to say it , i love sliding on my clay court ...

 

[Voltron]

Nope, I just use all of them. I can't explain it, they all just work for me. Same with grips, from western to semi-western. I just do it I guess... I don't mean to brag, thats not what I'm trying to imply.

 

[Voltron]

you can slide on clay , on HC you don't
sorry i just had to say it , i love sliding on my clay court ...

I took out old shoes on hard and was sliding around alot.

 

[Peter Szucs]

you can slide on clay , on HC you don't
sorry i just had to say it , i love sliding on my clay court ...

Yeah.. very true.. thats why clay courters do play a very very efficient defensive game sometimes.. amazing saves can be made for a good slider.

 

[Peter Szucs]

I took out old shoes on hard and was sliding around alot.

Beware you can get hurt easily...

 

[Peter Szucs]

Nope, I just use all of them. I can't explain it, they all just work for me. Same with grips, from western to semi-western. I just do it I guess... I don't mean to brag, thats not what I'm trying to imply.

Whats the best serve to use on clay do you think? I am thinking about trying to switch my topspin firts serve to the flat heater to see if i get any advantage with it on clay.

 

[krprunitennis2]

I was expecting this but its still kinda strange to me to see how different you hardcourt players think of the game than we claycourt players usually do. Not only at the pros level but also among amateurs. I am from Hungary/Europe, here we do play 99% on red clay. I read the hardcourter's notes with great respect.. and its funny to see a slightly different view of the apple we all eat.
Some that usually come up:

- Serve
Hardcourt players always talk about the serve as the No 1 shot of the game. Look at a racquet review and you will see that the most important thing for them in a racquet is how it serves. For us we usually think of the serve as an important shot but not as a pointmaker.: get it into the box to your opponents weaker side, add as much spin as you can, get a slight advantage by it. Different isnt it?

- Groundstrokes and volley
HC: they like to go for their shots, hit flat strokes, hit straight winners, get to the net asap, slice
Clay: we think of stability as being the most important, hit topspin, open angles, play effective defensive game

- Racquets
HC: heavy but very HL, small head racquets are very popular
Clay: Mid+ or bigger, head heavy is popular

Any other differences you can name pls dont hesitate.

I thought spin is greatly needed in Clay? Then why are you guys using head heavy, usually?

btw, I play on hardcourts, and I don't follow what you put. I actually play more like a clay court person.

 

[cam2]

Whats the best serve to use on clay do you think? I am thinking about trying to switch my topspin firts serve to the flat heater to see if i get any advantage with it on clay.

Your flat heater will be less effective on clay than on hard courts, mixing it in might get you an advantage though. Decent topspin serves tend to be more effective on clay.

 

[Voltron]

Whats the best serve to use on clay do you think? I am thinking about trying to switch my topspin firts serve to the flat heater to see if i get any advantage with it on clay.

I like a slice first serve because you can put a little pace on it, with a topspin second serve.

 

[Voltron]

Beware you can get hurt easily...

I got new shoes two days ago, so no more sliding.

 

[fuzz nation]

I love how a serve with spin goes bananas on clay - I've only played on har-tru, but I love how it encourages rallies and doesn't beat on my legs. Any trends toward more flexible frames for clay courters considering the heavy dose of baselining you get in a singles setting? When I think of singles on that surface, the first virtue that comes to mind is patience !

 

[Andres]

Whats the best serve to use on clay do you think? I am thinking about trying to switch my topspin firts serve to the flat heater to see if i get any advantage with it on clay.

Kickserve, all the way

 

[pcpshortbus]

you can slide on clay , on HC you don't
sorry i just had to say it , i love sliding on my clay court ...

i slide on hard but not as much

 

[zapvor]

sex is better on terre bateau(sp) too

 

[Voltron]

sex is better on terre bateau(sp) too

What the **** was that?

 

[zapvor]

you obviously havent experienced it, so i will leave it at that.

 

[tennis_hand]

you obviously havent experienced it, so i will leave it at that.

any videos of you on youtube?

 

[Voltron]

you obviously havent experienced it, so i will leave it at that.

Obviously not, do I really want too though?

 

[zapvor]

Obviously not, do I really want too though?

um...thats up to you.

 

[10ispro]

what you are describing goes beyond playing surfaces. It really has to do with cultural backgrounds, social norms and expectations and general attitude.

I recently read about 2 studies done by the USTA in the past 5 years at the Orange Bowl and at the Copper Bowl.
I believe it was in a USPTA publication or a hand out at a seminar--but anyways

The general purpose of the study was to identify differences between american players and Europeans and other players.

One of the primary distinctions was how americans played points. Americans played points very vertically (baseline to baseline), they hit very straight ahead (flat) with little or no variety and tried to force an opening in the court. Conversely Europeans and other country players, looked at and played points using the whole court. They used a wide variety of spins and trajectories to create openings and used angles to make the court much bigger.
Even when volleying, which as few occassions as they were, the american players typically vollied straight ahead with a direct path toward the target. Other players used angles with a variety of spins and placement within the angles and court.
Americans tended to play the shortest points of all players, usually ending a rally with a winner or unforced error by the 6th or 8th shot.

This type of approach and attitude can be seen in American Culture as well. Its a culture of "want it now", and "take with force" and "this is the only way to do things, has to be done our way".

Coming from a mixed cultural background and growing up primarily on clay, but playing a ton of hard court through juniors and college--I can definitely appreciate both sides, but personally I think there is a big reason why guys like a Nadal, Gonzales, Coria etc... can have success on multiple surfaces but the majority of americans are very limited on where they can succeed.

 

[Peter Szucs]

what you are describing goes beyond playing surfaces. It really has to do with cultural backgrounds, social norms and expectations and general attitude.

I recently read about 2 studies done by the USTA in the past 5 years at the Orange Bowl and at the Copper Bowl.
I believe it was in a USPTA publication or a hand out at a seminar--but anyways

The general purpose of the study was to identify differences between american players and Europeans and other players.

One of the primary distinctions was how americans played points. Americans played points very vertically (baseline to baseline), they hit very straight ahead (flat) with little or no variety and tried to force an opening in the court. Conversely Europeans and other country players, looked at and played points using the whole court. They used a wide variety of spins and trajectories to create openings and used angles to make the court much bigger.
Even when volleying, which as few occassions as they were, the american players typically vollied straight ahead with a direct path toward the target. Other players used angles with a variety of spins and placement within the angles and court.
Americans tended to play the shortest points of all players, usually ending a rally with a winner or unforced error by the 6th or 8th shot.

This type of approach and attitude can be seen in American Culture as well. Its a culture of "want it now", and "take with force" and "this is the only way to do things, has to be done our way".

Coming from a mixed cultural background and growing up primarily on clay, but playing a ton of hard court through juniors and college--I can definitely appreciate both sides, but personally I think there is a big reason why guys like a Nadal, Gonzales, Coria etc... can have success on multiple surfaces but the majority of americans are very limited on where they can succeed.

Interesting... I thought that the obvious differences that i face every day on these forums are due to the surface, i did not think that there is a cultural reason as well. I wonder what others think about this.

 

[Peter Szucs]

I thought spin is greatly needed in Clay? Then why are you guys using head heavy, usually?

btw, I play on hardcourts, and I don't follow what you put. I actually play more like a clay court person.

Maybe not head heavy but definitely less head light. I would say that in my country a couple of points head light (maybe from 2 to 5) racquets are the most popular. I think it has to do with the fact that head-heavier frames are usually more stable on groundies so they support the long rallies better.. many feel that its easier to handle topspin with a head heavier frame and it actually helps when you play your the defensive game.
And again I am talking general... there are a lot of exceptions here and there.