Harder to hit flat shots off heavy topspin?

[NatF]

I was hoping some of you guys could clarify something for him; during the Agassi vs Nadal Montreal final in 2005 one of the commentators said that Agassi would have trouble dealing with Nadal's spin because he hits so flat?

I'm abit of a novice, could someone explain if this is actually the case and also why? Is it just hard to generate pace off a heavy ball? Am I way off the mark etc...

Can anyone think of any match ups a flat hitter was really unsettled by something who hits with lots of topspin?

Thanks.

 

[tacou]

Maybe it's harder to time? I'm sure an expert can answer better than me, though Nadal is noted for struggling (at least early in his career) against flat hitters like Davydenko and Blake, so I'm not really sure.

I think heavy top spin deep in the court is trouble for any type of game, while top spin landing around the service box (Nadal on a bad day) is a treat for any player.

 

[LeeD]

Flat ball hitters like the ball around chest to waist heights.
Some, of course, want it lower, while some like it higher.
But Agassi is the subject here, who normally handles all bounces very well, but would prefer something not bouncing up to his chin levels.
Nadal can bounce it up to Agassi's chin heights, and higher. Nadal can also flatten it out and bounce it waist high.
Worse, Nadal can outrun a lot Agassi's best shots, so Agassi would have to press even harder than normal.
Agassi likes to hug the baseline, which usually means 2-3' behind. Nadal's loopers can go 6' high there, so it's over Agassi's head.

 

[mattennis]

Obviously it is more difficult to control and time correctly a very heavy top-spun coming ball than a flatter coming ball. If your strokes require delicate timing (like Agassi strokes) it will be more difficult than if your strokes are not so delicate timing requiring (for example Nadal's strokes by the way).

But Agassi's timing was so outstanding, extraordinary, that he could control any ball coming at him.

 

[NatF]

Obviously it is more difficult to control and time correctly a very heavy top-spun coming ball than a flatter coming ball. If your strokes require delicate timing (like Agassi strokes) it will be more difficult than if your strokes are not so delicate timing requiring (for example Nadal's strokes by the way).

But Agassi's timing was so outstanding, extraordinary, that he could control any ball coming at him.

Wasn't obvious to me lol.

I figured hitting with topspin yourself would still run into problems with timing and control. But what you're saying it's easier to time groundstrokes with heavy topspin?

One of these days I'll find time to play tennis more seriously and answer these questions myself

 

[Chanwan]

Wasn't obvious to me lol.

I figured hitting with topspin yourself would still run into problems with timing and control. But what you're saying it's easier to time groundstrokes with heavy topspin?

One of these days I'll find time to play tennis more seriously and answer these questions myself

The more topspin, the more the ball 'explodes' off the court. If you want to take it fairly early and rob your opponent of time, as Agassi would, that can be tricky. The earlier you want to hit the ball, the harder it is in general. And I would say it's even a bit harder than a 'normal' rally ball because of the the 'exploding' effect. That said, many on these boards, including Nadal fans, believe prime Agassi would do very well against Nadal as he has many of the same tools as Davydenko has: Ability to take the ball early (even on Nadal's topspin), great backhand, hit hard, flat, angled and precise and outstanding return. I go with that too. He would be troubled, if Nadal would manage to hit everything deep - but Agassi would make that very hard for Nadal to do.

All that said, a hard flat ball can be pretty hard to time as well because it's coming so fast at you.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

An incoming ball with heavy topspin will float upwards and long off your racket if you try to hit it flat without reversing the spin. You need to reverse the spin.

 

[tacou]

The more topspin, the more the ball 'explodes' off the court. If you want to take it fairly early and rob your opponent of time, as Agassi would, that can be tricky. The earlier you want to hit the ball, the harder it is in general. And I would say it's even a bit harder than a 'normal' rally ball because of the the 'exploding' effect. That said, many on these boards, including Nadal fans, believe prime Agassi would do very well against Nadal as he has many of the same tools as Davydenko has: Ability to take the ball early (even on Nadal's topspin), great backhand, hit hard, flat, angled and precise and outstanding return. I go with that too. He would be troubled, if Nadal would manage to hit everything deep - but Agassi would make that very hard for Nadal to do.

All that said, a hard flat ball can be pretty hard to time as well because it's coming so fast at you.

I'm not disagreeing with you or anyone else, as this was essentially my thoughts, but how does this translate to Nadal's struggles with flat hitters like Blake and Davydenko? Like I mentioned earlier, I think it's got to do with top spin shots that have no depth, as they have very little pace and are at a more accessible height when they reach the baseline

 

[Chanwan]

I'm not disagreeing with you or anyone else, as this was essentially my thoughts, but how does this translate to Nadal's struggles with flat hitters like Blake and Davydenko? Like I mentioned earlier, I think it's got to do with top spin shots that have no depth, as they have very little pace and are at a more accessible height when they reach the baseline

I think that good flat hitters make Nadal hit short balls.
It's kind of a cat-and-mouse game.
Can Nadal hit deep consistently and force them away from the baseline, where they win their matches?
Or can they get on the offense early in a rally and get shorter balls in return? Davy is obviously capable of doing just that (and Agassi too in his good years) - and much less so on clay, where the bounce is not true.

 

[LeeD]

Flat hitters are usually go for broke players.
Flat shots don't give Nadal much time to set up.
And flat shots work well on fast courts, something less seen.
Hard flat shots also shorten rallies, so Nadal doesn't have time to groove in his own shots.

 

[NEW_BORN]

You always counter spin with spin, otherwise the ball will fly off the racquet, especially if you try to go against the spin.

 

[Murrayfan31]

You always counter spin with spin, otherwise the ball will fly off the racquet, especially if you try to go against the spin.

Except when you play Nadal.