Highschool Player: Can't beat the same person.

[Shades]

Hi guys, im sure yall are sick and tired of hearing about people who can't beat pushers but can beat others and that stuff, but I have been searching around looking for tips to beat someone similar to the person I keep losing to and have had no luck. So hopefully yall can give me some of your opinions on how to beat him.

Well I am about a 3.5 all-courter with a pretty powerful flat serve and good arsenal of different types of shots, however flat and topspin shots are my favorite weapons. I have a a really powerful forehand but it's still really inconsistent but I can control whether or not to rifle it so I can control how consistent I want to be with it. My backhand is really powerful but I cant control it when used for putting pace, I can only hit with low-medium pace with it, my bh slice is pretty consistent. And I have a really reliable 2nd serve. I also have a pretty reliable net game. I have been experimenting with my style and slowly I am transitioning into a serve and volleyer. Basically I can control my consistency but there are other factors that influence my performance which I will get to shortly.

Okay, now to my problem. My opponent is somewhat of a pusher but I would not classify him exactly to that stereo-type. He follows through all of his strokes and is very athletic, he can basically get to any ball unless I hit it with heavy pace which I am still working on and is really 50/50. His net game is basically comprised of blocking and drop shotting. In the beginning of the match I tried to beat him by being "smarter" and more consistent which slowly deteriorated towards the middle of the match. I would try to hold myself back from unleashing my powerful strokes unless it was a blatant open chance, and he would just keep getting his shots back no matter where I would place it, I was trying to place it to his backhand which is much more shakey than his forehand. After awhile I just started to chip and charge and serve and volley and it wasn't working because he had the basics down on every shot and would just lob over me and put me in situations that were just not good. He would occasionally hit a moon ball or lob from the baseline and it would land in no mans or at the baseline and me being a shorter person at 5"6ish have to jump up and hit more top spin to bring it down. Towards the end of the match he started hitting a little bit harder and I had almost given up hope so I decided to just annihilate my shots and see how it goes, and to my surprise I would just smoke him. Even on my serve I figured if I go all out on it with no regard to the safety of my shoulder but rather on anger and he would have little or no chance on returning. I even tried to play more aggressive off my bigger and badder serve and come in and serve and volley and it was much easier. But, after the end of the match I came to reason that I couldn't do this every time I played him because it jeopardized my shoulders health and failure, I thought maybe I might have just gotten lucky on all my shots towards the end.

Now here is the weird thing. I can play and beat some 4.0 players and other players who use "proper" technique. I hit with 4.5+ players because my brother is a 5.5 player and is friends with everyone in our tennis community in my city. And basically everyone knows me because I am his brother and they are always looking toward me at topping him in the near future so I have a lot of weight on my shoulders. And I can keep up with all of his friends and even hit winners on them. I feel more comfortable hitting and playing against players who can hit back at me with high pace and high power, because I can return it back to them at the same pace and at a more consistent rate than when I play players lower or at my level who don't use proper technique. All of my friends in the tennis community have seen me lose to this particular person many times and they always ask me how I can lose to him but not to 4.0's. My coach even sees that I am a better player in terms of experience with strokes and aggresiveness in the game. Any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism would be great.

 

[drakulie]

Sounds to me like you need to work on your patience, how to construct points, and how to take advantage of your opponents weakenss by using your strength, and at the same time hiding your own.

In addition, having a brother who is a 5.5 is the best source you have at your disposal. He knows your game better than anyone here, and is in a better position to tell you what you need to work on.

Good luck!

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Wow! We always ask for detail so we can give better answers/suggestions, but that is like The "War and Peace" of information.

Basically, I think it boils down to this: You can hit well against good players with good strokes and not so well against hacker-types who have less conventional games.

There are LOTS of people who feel exactly the same way and for excatly the same reasons. It really is easier to play against a player with conventional strokes because: 1, they have pace and you don't have to create your own momentum, 2, their strokes are more predictable and familliar and they tend to bounce into your comfort zone, 3, because their strokes are not great, they have learned to win with craftiness and tactics that you may not give them credit for, because their skills seem deceptively poor.

1, You need to work on your basic strokes. They need to be BETTER to create pace out of nothing balls full of spin and slice. Work on your movement to the ball and hitting the ball solidly, stroking through it the same regardless of how he hits it to you. Don't become tentative and start "pushing", yourself.

2, Play against different players with different styles. We tend to play with people whos styles we like, and that is a mistake. You will learn more from hitting against players who frustrate you, in the long run. When you finally start to find them easy to beat, you know you have moved up to another level.

3, Don't take people for granted and assume they are lesser players just because their strokes are not pretty. The very first tournament I ever entered, I played against this guy (seemed like he was about 80) with his knees and elbows wrapped with ace bandages. I jokingly called him "the mummy". He beat me 6-0, 6-0 with chips, dropshots, and lobs. I was humiliated-- until the next week when I saw him do the same exact thing to the #1 player at our local State College.

So, to repeat, work on you basics, play with a wider variety of opponents, don't take anyone for granted.

Good luck,

B

 

[fx101]

So lets see what do pushers like this not like? Since their game depends on getting the ball back they are not going to like tough shots. Tough shots DOES NOT mean rip the ball back, it means playing smart. How do you play smart against this guy? Well for one he goes to the net. If you're at the net what weakness do you have? You just let 90% of the court behind you open. How do you use it? YOU LOB! Develop a consistent lob and you'll be over his head in no time, unless he has one hell of a good tweener (between the legs) shot. What else? Well for one in tennis you win by either hitting a winner or making the other person make a mistake. Ask yourself, what grip does he play with? If he hits eastern (I would guess because the way you describe it its unlikely he hits SW or western). Then he's not going to be a fan of high balls. How do you hit these consistently? Its called heavy topspin. I assume you play SW (as is the norm these days), because if you play eastern this is going to be different (I'll explain how in a moment). If you play SW go for a windshield wiper swingpath or find some way to hit heavy spin and get the ball pretty high over the net. If you don't think you can do this or you hit with eastern grips then hit lobs back to the kid with some topspin added and DEEP above anything else. He'll begin to panic because he will stink at hitting high balls...and you won.
Next try going in to the net after your deep lob because chances are any shot he hits back even a lob will be short enough to get near the net (don't go too close to the net, try 1/4 way in the service box) and you will begin to get overheads. You don't need to smash the cr@p out of them but it does help to put them away as soon as possible after you hit the shot. I hope this helps.
​

 

[Movement]

In the long run you want to work on consistancy and placement on both wings, it will make it much easier to beat any type of player. And your overheads. But strategy wise, I would have kept being patient and wait for opportunities. And just because you have a chance doesn't mean you should just blast the ball, although it might be a good idea for some players, you said you are inconsistant on both wings when hitting hard right? So instead just hit a medium paced, well placed shot. And see how much time it takes him to return the ball, and see what type of shot he hits. You also said he was athletic so running him around the court might not affect him too much but who knows.

Once you've seen a pattern in what shot he hits, take advantage of it. He may not be a "pusher" but he is tentative. There's a couple of things you can do. You can cut down his reaction time by hitting on the rise, this requires good timing though. If you can place those shots you may be able to get some points that way. You can also take the net, you've said you done it before but you said you chipped. Maybe try a deep high bouncing topspin to his backhand. Many players don't like that. And experiment with different shots and angles. I'm sure if he's about your level, he can't hit a lob in every scenario. Good luck.

 

[Shades]

Thank you all for all the advice, another thing I guess could be a flaw for me maybe would be my footwork/mentality. I am pretty consistent with my split steps and moving to the ball but when I am not doing so hot I tend to get sloppy on my split stepping and begin to start thinking about it more and focus more on my split stepping, could this be limiting me?

 

[The Gorilla]

Use your consistant shots to move him around the court, rip your forehand when he is on one side of the court while you are actually hitting the ball.

 

[Shades]

So lets see what do pushers like this not like? Since their game depends on getting the ball back they are not going to like tough shots. Tough shots DOES NOT mean rip the ball back, it means playing smart. How do you play smart against this guy? Well for one he goes to the net. If you're at the net what weakness do you have? You just let 90% of the court behind you open. How do you use it? YOU LOB! Develop a consistent lob and you'll be over his head in no time, unless he has one hell of a good tweener (between the legs) shot. What else? Well for one in tennis you win by either hitting a winner or making the other person make a mistake. Ask yourself, what grip does he play with? If he hits eastern (I would guess because the way you describe it its unlikely he hits SW or western). Then he's not going to be a fan of high balls. How do you hit these consistently? Its called heavy topspin. I assume you play SW (as is the norm these days), because if you play eastern this is going to be different (I'll explain how in a moment). If you play SW go for a windshield wiper swingpath or find some way to hit heavy spin and get the ball pretty high over the net. If you don't think you can do this or you hit with eastern grips then hit lobs back to the kid with some topspin added and DEEP above anything else. He'll begin to panic because he will stink at hitting high balls...and you won.
Next try going in to the net after your deep lob because chances are any shot he hits back even a lob will be short enough to get near the net (don't go too close to the net, try 1/4 way in the service box) and you will begin to get overheads. You don't need to smash the cr@p out of them but it does help to put them away as soon as possible after you hit the shot. I hope this helps.
​

I believe he uses a combination of SW,western and a continental grip depending on what hes doing. I dont think he can differentiate which one to use in the right situation but is aware of what they are used for except the continental grip. I high doubt he even knows there are names for the grips haha. I myself use the same grips he does, however I know when and when not to use either. I am also a big fan of hitting flat balls for my forehands with big power. hope this clarifies more.

 

[fx101]

I believe he uses a combination of SW,western and a continental grip depending on what hes doing. I dont think he can differentiate which one to use in the right situation but is aware of what they are used for except the continental grip. I high doubt he even knows there are names for the grips haha. I myself use the same grips he does, however I know when and when not to use either. I am also a big fan of hitting flat balls for my forehands with big power. hope this clarifies more.

First of all learn your grips. Pick one and stick with it (except serves and volleys) only changing it slightly depending on the shot. If he hits western as you mention, it means he's going to hit really heavy topspin and he's going to be incapable of returning low bouncing slice shots because the way you depict him he sounds like a 3.0-3.5 player. So, hit slices back and that's his weakness. With a SW grip he'll be adequate at everything so this isn't going to work. In this case you will have to learn to hit with pace. It seems he thrives on low-med pace balls to keep it in play so lightning fast balls will throw him off. Again, drop shots mixed with short and deep balls help to move him around the court. When he uses a continental grip, hit topspin lobs b/c he's going to be absolutely incapable of hitting it back if its near head level. Use your powerful forehand but add some spin. If nescessary take some private lessons and develop topspin on your forehand b/c otherwise you'll be plagued with inconsistency on your forehand and it will not be a real weapon. Hope this helps.

 

[fuzz nation]

Not sure what your shoulder issue is. If you're recovering from an injury, then you obviously want to avoid straining it, but if you think you're putting it at risk just by serve and volleying, get with a teaching pro to fix whatever is wrong and I mean soon! I did a good chunk of s&v against a teaching pro last night and it gave me tired legs and a little blister... that's it.

This opponent is in the ballpark of a pusher, at least against you, so the value of patience goes way up. His shots don't come with much pace and it's hard to make a lot of it when you're only given a little. Remember to never add more that about 5% pace to any ball in a rally (unless you're putting away a meatball) and you'll probably be able to keep up solid exchanges without donating many points. More boring than those occasional ballistic winners? Definately.

During those boring rallies, you need to be picky about the balls you follow to net. Your approach shot should make him really defensive and if he chucks that lob up, just stop at the service line, let it bounce, and put it away with an easy overhead motion. These set-ups will take longer to materialize, so get comfortable in the waiting room because the flashy stuff against this kind of opponent comes at the expense of too many errors.

 

[Shades]

First of all learn your grips. Pick one and stick with it (except serves and volleys) only changing it slightly depending on the shot. If he hits western as you mention, it means he's going to hit really heavy topspin and he's going to be incapable of returning low bouncing slice shots because the way you depict him he sounds like a 3.0-3.5 player. So, hit slices back and that's his weakness. With a SW grip he'll be adequate at everything so this isn't going to work. In this case you will have to learn to hit with pace. It seems he thrives on low-med pace balls to keep it in play so lightning fast balls will throw him off. Again, drop shots mixed with short and deep balls help to move him around the court. When he uses a continental grip, hit topspin lobs b/c he's going to be absolutely incapable of hitting it back if its near head level. Use your powerful forehand but add some spin. If nescessary take some private lessons and develop topspin on your forehand b/c otherwise you'll be plagued with inconsistency on your forehand and it will not be a real weapon. Hope this helps.

I think my shoulder was just sore from doing about a thousand serving drills before my challenge match. Today I was cranking them again after a few days rest and I was pretty much good shape no aches or anything.

Oh and Fuzz I am taking lessons with a Pro coach, its just that i've been held down due to soccer season and havent played consistent games of tennis on a daily basis since novemberish, so I am still trying to get back into the groove.