Hitting on top of racket for topsin or hitting on bottom of racket for topspin?

[1171]

It’s often taught that hitting in the center of the racquet is the key to the game. But the top pros don’t do that. They hit toward the bottom of the racquet for topspin, and toward the top of the racquet for volleys or slice. The racquet has much more stability this way, with the force only on one side. Topspin forehand, bottom of the racquet. Backhand slice, top of the racquet. (EZ-tennis).


Does the above statement make sense?

Has anyone experiment with hitting on top and hitting on bottom of racket for topspin?

I have hit ball on top of frame. It will produce topsin. So much topspin, the ball consistently land short.

Do pros really hit on the bottom of frame?

 

[Ripper]

Does the above statement make sense?

I have hit ball on top of frame. It will produce topsin. So much topspin, the ball consistently land short.

Yes, it makes sense. You want to hit the center of the sweetspot (not the center of the stringbed) and that's where you see they're hitting. Also, what you've observed about adding more spin when hitting on top of the stringbed makes sense, too. During the swing, that's the spot that's moving the fastest. However, since it's the part of the stringbed with less power, shots hit there can be spinny, but paceless. That combination makes them land short. Finally, if you're finding it hard to hit lower on the stringbed, you could consider trying a 27.5 or, even, a 28 inch long frame. Just my 2 cents. Hth.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

No, what you are saying does not make sense and is pretty much completely incorrect.

Even with the most extreme topspin the ball remains on the racket strings for only about 5 miliseconds (not very long).

The ball does not roll down the strings to any significant extent.

Under optimun conditions the most effect will be gained from hitting in the sweetspot.

When you are hiting relatively flat it is fairly easy to hit the sweet spot on a reglar basis.

When you are swooping your racket up at an extreme angle (say 75+ degrees from the plane of the court (and the ball), finding that sweet spot when you are also being jerked around the court can be a bit "iffy".

True, pros don't always hit the ball in the racket's center when using maximum topspin (this part of what you say is true), but it is not because it improves the spin. It is just a mistake.

B

 

[dave333]

Just hit the sweet spot every time, don't worry about all that crap.

btw, that crap is wrong too.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Ripper,

My interpretation of the original post is a little different, I think the same a Bagumbawalla's. I think he is talking about hitting "low" and "high" on the string bed when it is in the horizontal position, as it is when it is hitting the ball. Not high or low like when the racket is serving a ball. Low and high = 3 and 9 on the sides of the frame.

Either way---->

The racquet has much more stability this way, with the force only on one side. Topspin forehand, bottom of the racquet. Backhand slice, top of the racquet. (EZ-tennis).


Does the above statement make sense?

Does not make sense. The only reason stability is an issue with tennis rackets is because of off-center hits. If everyone hit dead-center on every shot there would be no frame vibration, no string vibration, no instability, and a much lower rate of tennis elbow.

I may be interpreting the post wrong, but no matter the intepretation, you should aim for the center of the string bed.

You're not actually talking about hitting the "frame", are you?

I just realized dave above me pretty much made the exact same post as mine and got straight to the point... I'm a ******.

 

[J011yroger]

Most big topspin hitters hit off center in my experience. I break about two crosses higher than dead center and about two mains off center. As far as top or bottom on the mains, I dunno if I am hitting higher or lower but if I had to guess I would say higher.

I hit Western FH, and 2hbh. Brutal top and pace.

J

 

[alan-n]

Naturally heavy brushing strokes MAY hit the ball off the center of the racquet. And another thing to remember is that good racquets space the strings for a consistent response from the racquet so it DOESN'T MATTER if you end up brushing it in the center or a couple inches off of it.

 

[35ft6]

Not sure if this is an answer, but Nadal's straight arm aside, I think people used to think that for more top spin you want to keep your elbow in closer.

When I get a really short lowish ball, and I want to put a butt load of top spin on it, way more than I usually impart, I choke up on my handle a bit. It allows me to put more topspin on the ball.

So these things might suggest that hitting it towards the bottom might help generate more spin but I sort of doubt it. You could also argue the tip of the racket is traveling the fastest.

 

[J011yroger]

I mean, I posted where I usually hit the ball, but I don't think that trying to hit the ball off center will help anyone. Once your strokes get grooved, and you get a feel for what you are trying to do you will gravitate to hitting in one location or another. Like I said, I usually hit high in the bed, and slightly off center, but that was by no means a decision on my part to do that. I just hit thousands of balls, trying to get the effect I was looking for, trying to get optimal results, and that is where I ended up hitting the ball most in order to get it to do what I want it to do.

J

 

[tennis_hand]

Good question. but the answer is, to hit on the sweet spot.

 

[Ripper]

Ripper,

My interpretation of the original post is a little different, I think the same a Bagumbawalla's. I think he is talking about hitting "low" and "high" on the string bed when it is in the horizontal position, as it is when it is hitting the ball. Not high or low like when the racket is serving a ball. Low and high = 3 and 9 on the sides of the frame.

Wow, now I'm confused. I should read the OP again. Bah, maybe later...

 

[dacrymn]

Guess what? I REALLY don't think you'll care that much when you're playing. I must admit, one fault about these boards is that people go WAY too much into these "mechanics of tennis." Why can't people just play? If it will significantly improve your game, then go ahead. But I really wouldn't waste time on stuff like this. It's interesting though, i have to say.
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[ionutzakis]

In table tennis it is universally agreed that for more spin you have to hit with close to the edge of the blade. This is a basic lesson in table tennis.

I guess it's the same in tennis.

 

[travlerajm]

\The only reason stability is an issue with tennis rackets is because of off-center hits. If everyone hit dead-center on every shot there would be no frame vibration, no string vibration, no instability, and a much lower rate of tennis elbow.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to point out that the quote above is a false statement.

Stability is extremely important, even when you hit the sweet spot every time.

When you make contact with an incoming ball that has BOTH pace and spin (a heavy ball), the incoming pace causes the ball to deflect the stringbed roughly a cm from the neutral plane of the stringbed. And the incoming topspin exerts a downward force on the stringbed. Because the stringbed is deflected, this downward force creates a twisting moment (torque) equal to the downforce times the stringbed deflection. This torque will twist your racquet even if you make contact exactly in the sweet spot. So if your racquet is light, it will be difficult to control the shot, and you will feel a sense of being "pushed" around by the heavy ball. The more mass in your hoop, the less this torque will affect the trajectory of your shot.

The torque (and twisting) produced by a heavy ball can also wreak havoc with your elbow, even when you hit the sweet spot, if your SW is too light.

 

[tennis_hand]

Guess what? I REALLY don't think you'll care that much when you're playing. I must admit, one fault about these boards is that people go WAY too much into these "mechanics of tennis." Why can't people just play? If it will significantly improve your game, then go ahead. But I really wouldn't waste time on stuff like this. It's interesting though, i have to say.

Can't agree more. But this is a forum. All we can do is talk. *talk* tennis.

 

[1171]

I am the original poster.

My question was: When the racket is HORIZONTAL, do you impart topspin by aiming at the top or the bottom of the angled racket face?

Wagner(ez-tennis) said aim at the bottom of the racket to keep racket angle undisturbed during hitting for return of serve topspin.

Do you agree? Is it top or bottom of racket?

Someone mentioned it is like hitting a topspin table tennis ball? What the classic teaching in hitting a topspin table tennis ball? Do you use the top of the horizontal racket or the bottom part, since the force of the table tennis ball will be minimal, no torque-ing of the racket is involved.

 

[tlm]

In some of the slo mo footage i have seen of pro swings, it looked like they hit the ball in the center of the stringbed as far as up+down go.But it looks like a lot of the shots hit on the lower side of the stringbed.

With the closed grips the ball was hitting past center+ coming off the stringbed towards the side of the frame which is closest to the ground.

 

[ionutzakis]

I am the original poster.

My question was: When the racket is HORIZONTAL, do you impart topspin by aiming at the top or the bottom of the angled racket face?

Wagner(ez-tennis) said aim at the bottom of the racket to keep racket angle undisturbed during hitting for return of serve topspin.

Do you agree? Is it top or bottom of racket?

Someone mentioned it is like hitting a topspin table tennis ball? What the classic teaching in hitting a topspin table tennis ball? Do you use the top of the horizontal racket or the bottom part, since the force of the table tennis ball will be minimal, no torque-ing of the racket is involved.

The rule in table tennis is that for topspin, and especially underspin you hit with close to the edge of the blade, toward the tip of the blade.

 

[1171]

So for tennis, you hit close to bottom of the horizontal racket because of torque?

For table tennis, you hit close to the top of the horizontal racket because there is no torque?

 

[ivan987]

If you hit the ball with sweetspot, you will get the best from your racket - power and control. If you hit a bit under the sweetspot, you will lose a lot of power but will gain a bit on control. If you hit toward the top of the racket, you will lose both power and control, so the point is obvious. Hit with the sweetspot.

 

[dacrymn]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'd like to point out that the quote above is a false statement.

Stability is extremely important, even when you hit the sweet spot every time.

When you make contact with an incoming ball that has BOTH pace and spin (a heavy ball), the incoming pace causes the ball to deflect the stringbed roughly a cm from the neutral plane of the stringbed. And the incoming topspin exerts a downward force on the stringbed. Because the stringbed is deflected, this downward force creates a twisting moment (torque) equal to the downforce times the stringbed deflection. This torque will twist your racquet even if you make contact exactly in the sweet spot. So if your racquet is light, it will be difficult to control the shot, and you will feel a sense of being "pushed" around by the heavy ball. The more mass in your hoop, the less this torque will affect the trajectory of your shot.

The torque (and twisting) produced by a heavy ball can also wreak havoc with your elbow, even when you hit the sweet spot, if your SW is too light.

I'm not saying I dissagree with you (yet), but where in the world did you get "torque = downforce times stringbed deflection"? stringbed deflection is "one centimeter" as you said, but where did you get this info? You can't say (even WITH 'roughly' in there) that because of the obscene amount of variables, including swing plane, and speed of the ball and racket. But fine, we'll assume 1 cm. And for Downforce: how exactly would you measure this "downforce?" We both know it's THERE, but again, how do you measure it, along with other factors such as friction, like what string they're using and the amount of felt on the ball. Torque is measured in pounds, in the directions left or right (rotational). If the ball were to hit at the exact center, grab onto the string, and spin it downwards, you wouldn't get uneven pressure on the racket face to make it twist. The defection would still be there, and i think that's what you meant, but you just used the wrong term there. So what I mean by all this is that you have all these "incalculables" to come up with a product that isn't related to the parts. Torque IS distance times force, but the force (downforce, in this case) isn't exactly directional, and it'll sometimes change. Plus, this distance/force isn't upon this one object, as I assume force is FORCE APPLIED and distance is distance in direction. The "downforce" in this case is upon the BALL, not the racket, so you have separated parts there too. Conversion of force transitioning from the ball to the racket is difficult too, because of the factors of string, ball, blah blah blah. Otherwise, besides this one sentence being confusing (I guess I overkilled it, but could you clarify?) yeah, stability CAN be affected in lots of ways, even if you hit in the sweetspot. Interesting way of explaining it too.
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[Kevo]

I think you should concern yourself more with the angle of the racquet face and where you make contact on the ball. If you try to hit the ball with the bottom of the racquet fact, you will most likely miss. However, if you have your racquet face closed off a bit, angled toward the ground, then the ball will naturally tend to hit a bit lower in the face. Same thing for slices with an open racquet face. Just because the pros are doing something particular, doesn't mean that are trying to do that thing. It may be the result of something else they are trying to do. Emulating a result is not the best way to get that result necessarily. Hope that made sense.