how do u return a slow high arc "moonball" kick serve?

[E46luver]

opponent has kick serve that clears net by 20 feet
very high arc and it moves very slowly

so i try step in 2 feet inside baseline and crush it. that works pretty well
but i also try to stand far back and wait to see high peak of arc and return from behind baseline.
i am not sure of optimal return yet. error vs winner

what do you do?

 

[speedysteve]

Play our coach who does this..
If to the FH, let it drop a bit and drive the hell out of it.
If to my BH, take it high and power downward slice the **** out of it.
Top spinny players usually hate hard rasping slice back to their 2HBHs.

 

[golden chicken]

I would stand 3' behind the service line and take it on the rise like an approach shot. Doesn't have to be crushed, just place it deep into the corner in front of you or try to hit that short crosscourt angle to the opponents service line/side line tee.

 

[LeeD]

Winning tactic is ...depends.
What does the server do after this serve?
What shots does the server have trouble handling?
And more important....what shots are at YOUR disposal?
One example. Me, weak rusty 4.0 facing 1st serve kick from 4.5, to my backhand. I take it 3' inside my baseline forehead high, slice it hard low about a foot over the net to within 4' of opponent's baseline, to his forehand side and move forward to service line position.
Papa hits a topspin lob over my backhand side that lands middle of alley and one foot from my baseline.
Playing doubles, his shot trumps mine.

 

[E46luver]

Play our coach who does this..
If to the FH, let it drop a bit and drive the hell out of it.
If to my BH, take it high and power downward slice the **** out of it.
Top spinny players usually hate hard rasping slice back to their 2HBHs.

Slice is hard for many to return.
But, how do you hit downwards on a ball high to your BH ?
Slicing balls at shoulder height is not easy?

You are advocating standing back?

 

[r2473]

I “go with it” and loft a moonball high, slow and deep. If my opponent can’t take advantage of this return, then I start off neutral and almost never make an error on return. Odds are, I’ll get at least one break per set starting his serve from neutral. And I’ll win the match, taking little risk and not having to work too hard.

I love to play against “hero ball” returners . They make lots of errors.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

If it is really 20 ft above the net, I would overhead it from wherever I could. I've overheaded quite a few second serve kick serves, they seem to be a staple of academy teens these days, and they don't kick as high as 20ft, this serve you are discussing sounds perfect for an overhead return.

 

[sredna42]

I “go with it” and loft a moonball high, slow and deep.

I hate you, and all your accursed kind.
Those deep moonball returns kill me.

 

[LeeD]

If you can volley, you can step in and volley stroke that high ball, forehand or backhand.
If you can't volley, you don't have that shot.

 

[NLBwell]

I would stand 3' behind the service line and take it on the rise like an approach shot. Doesn't have to be crushed, just place it deep into the corner in front of you or try to hit that short crosscourt angle to the opponents service line/side line tee.

I assume you mean 3 feet in front of the service line ???

 

[golden chicken]

I assume you mean 3 feet in front of the service line ???

Uh...between the service line and baseline.

If it were allowed to volley a serve I would, but it has to bounce in the box first.

 

[NLBwell]

Slice is hard for many to return.
But, how do you hit downwards on a ball high to your BH ?
Slicing balls at shoulder height is not easy?

You are advocating standing back?

You want to be moving into the court so your body weight is behind the shot.
As far as how you hit it, just put your hand up by your head and then slap the back of your hand on a table next to you (well, might want a pillow on the table).

 

[LOBALOT]

I “go with it” and loft a moonball high, slow and deep. If my opponent can’t take advantage of this return, then I start off neutral and almost never make an error on return. Odds are, I’ll get at least one break per set starting his serve from neutral. And I’ll win the match, taking little risk and not having to work too hard.

I love to play against “hero ball” returners . They make lots of errors.

Great answer I was going to say the same thing!!!! Of course! Lob a ball back!

 

[NLBwell]

Uh...between the service line and baseline.

If it were allowed to volley a serve I would, but it has to bounce in the box first.

Sorry, I read that wrong.

 

[E46luver]

I like the lob idea. I will try that. The serve is slow enough to hit it to his BH every time.
Lob to the BH might be even better than a rally ball.

 

[Booger]

I like the lob idea. I will try that. The serve is slow enough to hit it to his BH every time.
Lob to the BH might be even better than a rally ball.

If you are lob returning in singles... you might be a mug.

 

[NLBwell]

I like the lob idea. I will try that. The serve is slow enough to hit it to his BH every time.
Lob to the BH might be even better than a rally ball.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of the moonball. Many opponents won't handle it well. Worth giving it a try.
Best to have multiple ways to attack the shot so that the opponent won't know what's coming.

 

[r2473]

If you are lob returning in singles... you might be a mug.

It works. I’m not saying you do it on every serve, but you’d be surprised how many people can’t attack a lob return. And how many people get mad and start spraying balls.

But my goal returning serve might be different than most. First and foremost, I want to get every ball in play. My goal is to get neutral, not to win the point. If I can do this, the pressure builds on my opponent and they usually start making UE’s going for too much from the back of the court.

The downside is, some guys won’t want to play me again. They don’t want to play a pusher they say.

 

[LOBALOT]

I was just having fun. Seriously mixing it up is not a bad idea no mater the service type.

Often when someone is hitting a serve like that they are luring you into over-hitting and making an error as you are generating the pace. It may be best to be patient and wait for an opportunity to attack when your opponent has hit a weak shot vs. when they are attempting to elicit an error from you.

 

[LOBALOT]

It works. I’m not saying you do it on every serve, but you’d be surprised how many people can’t attack a lob return. And how many people get mad and start spraying balls.

But my goal returning serve might be different than most. First and foremost, I want to get every ball in play. My goal is to get neutral, not to win the point. If I can do this, the pressure builds on my opponent and they usually start making UE’s going for too much from the back of the court.

The downside is, some guys won’t want to play me again. They don’t want to play a pusher they say.

I think a deep ball up the middle is not a bad idea. If the server has not recovered properly they are then forced into a weak reply or at least a neutral ball which then is the opportunity to setup something or attack. I am not saying all the time but I am assuming the original post was triggered by issues returning this type of serve and if that is the case this is a safe and easy option to flip the cards in your favor.

 

[E46luver]

i like the ideas in this thread.

it is just so tempting to crush the return since the serve is just hanging there like a meatball.
But, it's shoulder high and not an easy rally ball just because its slow.
Can be clean winner or maybe an error.

I like the idea of just hitting it back deep and not trying to win the point on the serve return.
I just need to think not weakness, just not a strength. hes getting no free points with that serve so that is my advantage
instead of winners on return, just think he will need to out play me on all serve points. that tips scale in my favor since my serve is a true advantage.
make him work to hold his serve, instead of going for the kill on each return of serve.

 

[speedysteve]

Slice is hard for many to return.
But, how do you hit downwards on a ball high to your BH ?
Slicing balls at shoulder height is not easy?

You are advocating standing back?

I take the ball at around head height, perhaps a bit lower but it feels high and am bringing the racquet from high to low dragging it down.
As other poster said, get I a foot or so over net and deep it's a great return.
I practice these against said coach, over and over..

I'm behind the baseline to give me time to time it. SABR stuff is very hit and miss.

 

[34n]

opponent has kick serve that clears net by 20 feet
very high arc and it moves very slowly

so i try step in 2 feet inside baseline and crush it. that works pretty well
but i also try to stand far back and wait to see high peak of arc and return from behind baseline.
i am not sure of optimal return yet. error vs winner

what do you do?

I slowly walk around the ball for my backhand.
I slowly move forward till I can see the base line over the net.
I keep walking forward when I meet the ball and play deep to either left or right corner.

 

[PMChambers]

20feet clearance plus net height is 23 foot or 7m so should bounce to smash height so just smash it. You will get a heap of time to prepare.

 

[E46luver]

it is not smashable. maybe it is 10 foot clearance.

for those who have seen this serve,
how does he even get such a high launch angle?

 

[E46luver]

SABR stuff is very hit and miss.

yes, taking too much chance by SABR and hitting on the rise

 

[onehandbh]

If the serve is really 20 feet over the net, then it probably will bounce high enough for me to go down on one knee and hit an overhead.

 

[sredna42]

It works. I’m not saying you do it on every serve, but you’d be surprised how many people can’t attack a lob return. And how many people get mad and start spraying balls.

But my goal returning serve might be different than most. First and foremost, I want to get every ball in play. My goal is to get neutral, not to win the point. If I can do this, the pressure builds on my opponent and they usually start making UE’s going for too much from the back of the court.

The downside is, some guys won’t want to play me again. They don’t want to play a pusher they say.

It works. But it IS pushing, be honest with yourself.

 

[LOBALOT]

I do like the backhand high to low as well as long as the ball can be kept deep and to either side (I prefer hitting it back cross court).

There are multiple responses one should use and that is a good suggestion as well.

One can't be aggressive no mater the shot you are responding to so I do not think it is pushing to hit a neutral ball. If your opponent hits a shot to you that you are having difficulty responding to it is not a green light to hit aggressively with something risky. I would rather get the point to neutral or my advantage and then start searching for an opportunity to hit a shot they find hard to respond to. Then step inside the court and attack!

 

[ptuanminh]

If the serve is slow enough to lob back, its slow enough to hit an offensive shot off.

 

[golden chicken]

If the serve is slow enough to lob back, its slow enough to hit an offensive shot off.

Sort of like an Eephus pitch, it tempts you to over swing because it looks easy and really isn't, especially if you have little or no experience facing or dealing with such a shot.

 

[ptuanminh]

Sort of like an Eephus pitch, it tempts you to over swing because it looks easy and really isn't, especially if you have little or no experience facing or dealing with such a shot.

I have a weak second serve, slow and bounce only 6 7 feet. But i estimate my opponents (of my level and below) can successfully put it away only about 10%. 90% of the time, they dump it in the net, off the court, or have to play out the point. Key is: if you try to over swing and muscle a winner, you are screwed most of the time. What you should do is simple, hit a deep shot, to the feet of the server or out of their reach, move up and prepare for the next shot.

 

[movdqa]

I've never faced a serve like this before but it would depend on what the other person's capabilities are. I'm perfectly fine with pushing and could just hit it back soft, high and deep as in a reset.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Great answer I was going to say the same thing!!!! Of course! Lob a ball back!

Of course someone with your username would say that.

 

[Kevo]

I agree with those that say smash if it really is that high. If it's not, on slow serves that bounce high I usually go for a fairly safe hard shot right back towards the server's feet and just come in behind it. Just don't go for too much. If you can crush it safely then do it, if not, just try to put them off balance so they pop something up you can take care of on the next ball or get an even better approach out of.

 

[E46luver]

i played oppoenent again and did nto try to step in and take on the rise
i stayed back and did not try to hit winner DTL either
I just drove the serve back to middle and try to go deep.
this worked ok, but I lost the match by widest margin ever.
so i think I need to attack this slow serve instead of be safe pusher

 

[Friedman Whip]

opponent has kick serve that clears net by 20 feet

20 feet higher than net when it passes over the net? No. Don't think so.

 

[Curious]

20 feet higher than net when it passes over the net? No. Don't think so.

Exaggerated obviously. But I’m curious now, what would be the highest over the net one can serve, excluding underhand serve? And no dinking. Just proper serve with a fast swing. @J011yroger , you wanna give it a go? Just for science you know.

 

[Shroud]

Step in crush

 

[mucat]

I used to have a slow but good movement kick serve. The serve became liability when my opponent could take monster swing at the ball as it was coming back down behind the baseline. It didn't happen too often, but when it did, I had no answer.

 

[topspin2000]

This is actually my favorite kind of 2nd serve when I receive it. I will crush it on the rise for winners or unreturnables to the corners or side lines. If it's slow enough, I will run around my backhand and whack it with my forehand. This has a side benefit in that after a few times, the server becomes nervous and hit double fault, or they start going for more and hit the serve long.

 

[E46luver]

yea it is slo enuf that i can always hit fh
but it bounces to eye level so i can hit into net
stepping 3 feet inside baseline is risky and can overhit

 

[ptuanminh]

3 feet inside the baseline is not commonly a good place to return serve . unless a really crappy serve.

 

[topspin2000]

What I do is I take it at the apex of the bounce, usually shoulder height. Then hit the top of the ball shoulder to pocket forehand. It is super flat with lots of margin.

 

[Knox]

i played oppoenent again and did nto try to step in and take on the rise
i stayed back and did not try to hit winner DTL either
I just drove the serve back to middle and try to go deep.
this worked ok, but I lost the match by widest margin ever.
so i think I need to attack this slow serve instead of be safe pusher

If your return was working but you still lost by a wide margin then the serve return probably isn't the priority if you want to beat this player.

How were they winning points against you?

 

[Shroud]

3 feet inside the baseline is not commonly a good place to return serve . unless a really crappy serve.

If pros are stepping in 1-2 ft to return serve 3 ft is probably right for rec play especially on a SLOW high bouncing kicker.... how else are you going to take it at a contact point where its not above your head??

 

[ptuanminh]

If pros are stepping in 1-2 ft to return serve 3 ft is probably right for rec play especially on a SLOW high bouncing kicker.... how else are you going to take it at a contact point where its not above your head??

Honestly what do you think the success rate of rec players return a topspin 2nd serve on the rise is??? Do u think it can be 80% and higher?

 

[ptuanminh]

Honestly what do you think the success rate of rec players return a topspin 2nd serve on the rise from 3ft inside baseline is??? Do u think it can be 80% and higher?

 

[Shroud]

Honestly what do you think the success rate of rec players return a topspin 2nd serve on the rise is??? Do u think it can be 80% and higher?

Can any rec return be 80% or higher??? What do you think the success rate is for not taking those high slow kickers on the rise? This thread exists for a reason.

 

[ptuanminh]

Can any rec return be 80% or higher??? What do you think the success rate is for not taking those high slow kickers on the rise? This thread exists for a reason.

In my opinion, for players of my level and below, the success rate of trying to take a big cut at the 2nd serve on the rise is much lower than 80%.
I am sure if they stay on the baseline (instead of 3 ft inside), they can return that serve with higher success rate.
There is no indication that this thread exists because people don't take the high slow kickers on the rise.