How does Federer hit his forehand like that?
- Thread starter AJK1
- Start date
charles_boey
Rookie
with ease..
LudaKrisKG
Rookie
First of all he has perfect form
Secondly he is stronger than you and I
He has perfect timing
and he strings his racquet in the mid to low 50's
Secondly he is stronger than you and I
He has perfect timing
and he strings his racquet in the mid to low 50's
VashTheStampede
Professional
My forehand's definitely not as good as Federer's but I follow through about halfway up around my back and so do a lot of players I see. I also get a lot of topspin and so do most of the players that I see who followthrough that way. Also, Federer's not the only pro who finishes that low and not over his shoulder. Moya and Ferrero seem to do it pretty often and they seem to get some pretty mad spin on their forehands.
My Opinion.... Classic tennis tecnique has alot to do with the fact that wood racquets were very heavy and unforgiving. It changed a little in the 80's-90's to over the shoulder. Think Agassi's FH Followthrough VS McEnroe... now look at AA's vs Federer or Nadals. SOme of this has evolved due to a gifted player just feeling something that worksbetter for what they want their ball to do. Robert Lansdorp said that Pete Sampras was the first person he worked with that hit the FH with a follow through over his head/same shoulder as opposed to over left shoulder every time... now look at how he lets Sharapova hit it.
35ft6
Legend
Federer does a few unorthodox things with his forehand that I wouldn't allow anybody to emulate, but it works for him. Beautifully.
He hits with a very straight arm. He seems to generate topspin by pronating his write, even as his racket almost looks like it's going straight through the ball, not by using the windshield wiper motion most players do.
I've tried copying his forehand and I can see why he can generate such incredible racket head speed. The trajectory of his motion, because it whips straight across his body, has no hitch, at no point does the racket need to slow down as it does with a windshield wiper follow through motion which acts as a break. He has the freedom of motion that a one-handed backhand does, but on a forehand.
Scrichiphan hits with a really straight arm, too. But he seems to be hitting with almost an eastern forehand and doesn't get as much top spin on his shot as Federer does.
He hits with a very straight arm. He seems to generate topspin by pronating his write, even as his racket almost looks like it's going straight through the ball, not by using the windshield wiper motion most players do.
I've tried copying his forehand and I can see why he can generate such incredible racket head speed. The trajectory of his motion, because it whips straight across his body, has no hitch, at no point does the racket need to slow down as it does with a windshield wiper follow through motion which acts as a break. He has the freedom of motion that a one-handed backhand does, but on a forehand.
Scrichiphan hits with a really straight arm, too. But he seems to be hitting with almost an eastern forehand and doesn't get as much top spin on his shot as Federer does.
Um, to me there's nothing special about Federer's technique. It's a pretty straight forward semi-western style forehand with the moderate loop take back and often times windshield wiper finish.
Really, his technique on all his shots is pretty straight forward and simple actually. What distinguishes Federer is not some mystical and totally ideosyncratic technique, but rather his footwork and speed which are so exceptional, his ability to read the direction of your shots that are Hingis like, and his timing when taking the ball on the rise which is Rios like. Basically, it's almost impossible to get Federer totally out of position. As such, he executes high quality shots from all positions of the court. He also mixes in a variety of spins, paces, and angles to keep you off balance and hence this is why opponents are often leaning the wrong way when he hits.
But as far as his technique? Really, it's pretty common these days. It's just that Federer is very smooth and elegant, perhaps that is what you are confusing with "different" technique.
"Different" technique is Bruguera's forehand, which was incredibly ideosyncratic. There's not a single western forehand grip that is hit the way he did. The western grip forehands you see are the more typical windshield wiper style finish a la Moya and Ferrero and Berastagui and Courier. Federer's forehand is actually a very similar motion, only difference being that his grip isn't as extreme. Bruguera's forehand was not just open stance, but completely open stance basically. He also had an inordinate amount of "flop" or wristiness to his shot, and finally unlike other western grips he really didn't have a windshield wiper follow-through but instead finished over his head or above his shoulder with garnish.
Also, the thing is, these ideosnycracsies in my opinion are a bit irrelevant. Once the racket makes contact with your frame, your "finish" is irrelevant. It's where your contact point is that makes the "impact." A lower angle = more topspin. Meet the ball more in front and at the edge = angle. Meet the ball square = flat. For me the "buggy whip" finish Sampras' incorporates feels very natural, but it does not in and of itself do anything. I can hit the same shot doing the buggy whip finish, a traditional above and across the shoulder finish, and a windshield wiper finish. The difference is more so in comfort level. The buggy whip finish feels very natural and I feel gives you a better recovery rhythm for the next shot as it gets your feet squared away more quickly. Doesn't it actually add anything to your shots though? No.
It's just personal preference and whatever feels more natural to you in my opinion. As long as your contact points remain solid, "bad shots" simply are not possible. Try it sometime. Next time just freeze your racket after contact and you'll still be able to hit a good shot. One-handed backhand players prove this all the time. Sometimes they may just kind of stop their finish a la McEnroe (also Edberg did this a lot), and they'll still hit a solid shot. They can also hit a flourishing finish as well, and they'll also hit a solid shot. Where the "finish" comes into play is in personal comfort level. Look at Tommy Robredo. He is an extreme example of someone who really exaggerates his finish on all his backhands. Does it add anything? No. But it is kind of a sub-conscious cue to himself to make sure he sweeps through the contact zone in time. In other words, it gets him to accelerate his swing so he doesn't end up hitting the ball on his heels or make poor or tentative contact with the ball...which with the one-hander as we often know IS the kiss of death.
Really, his technique on all his shots is pretty straight forward and simple actually. What distinguishes Federer is not some mystical and totally ideosyncratic technique, but rather his footwork and speed which are so exceptional, his ability to read the direction of your shots that are Hingis like, and his timing when taking the ball on the rise which is Rios like. Basically, it's almost impossible to get Federer totally out of position. As such, he executes high quality shots from all positions of the court. He also mixes in a variety of spins, paces, and angles to keep you off balance and hence this is why opponents are often leaning the wrong way when he hits.
But as far as his technique? Really, it's pretty common these days. It's just that Federer is very smooth and elegant, perhaps that is what you are confusing with "different" technique.
"Different" technique is Bruguera's forehand, which was incredibly ideosyncratic. There's not a single western forehand grip that is hit the way he did. The western grip forehands you see are the more typical windshield wiper style finish a la Moya and Ferrero and Berastagui and Courier. Federer's forehand is actually a very similar motion, only difference being that his grip isn't as extreme. Bruguera's forehand was not just open stance, but completely open stance basically. He also had an inordinate amount of "flop" or wristiness to his shot, and finally unlike other western grips he really didn't have a windshield wiper follow-through but instead finished over his head or above his shoulder with garnish.
Also, the thing is, these ideosnycracsies in my opinion are a bit irrelevant. Once the racket makes contact with your frame, your "finish" is irrelevant. It's where your contact point is that makes the "impact." A lower angle = more topspin. Meet the ball more in front and at the edge = angle. Meet the ball square = flat. For me the "buggy whip" finish Sampras' incorporates feels very natural, but it does not in and of itself do anything. I can hit the same shot doing the buggy whip finish, a traditional above and across the shoulder finish, and a windshield wiper finish. The difference is more so in comfort level. The buggy whip finish feels very natural and I feel gives you a better recovery rhythm for the next shot as it gets your feet squared away more quickly. Doesn't it actually add anything to your shots though? No.
It's just personal preference and whatever feels more natural to you in my opinion. As long as your contact points remain solid, "bad shots" simply are not possible. Try it sometime. Next time just freeze your racket after contact and you'll still be able to hit a good shot. One-handed backhand players prove this all the time. Sometimes they may just kind of stop their finish a la McEnroe (also Edberg did this a lot), and they'll still hit a solid shot. They can also hit a flourishing finish as well, and they'll also hit a solid shot. Where the "finish" comes into play is in personal comfort level. Look at Tommy Robredo. He is an extreme example of someone who really exaggerates his finish on all his backhands. Does it add anything? No. But it is kind of a sub-conscious cue to himself to make sure he sweeps through the contact zone in time. In other words, it gets him to accelerate his swing so he doesn't end up hitting the ball on his heels or make poor or tentative contact with the ball...which with the one-hander as we often know IS the kiss of death.
35ft6
Legend
No, by different I mean a lot of today's players basically have the same stroke, with a little dash of personality added. But Federer does a lot of things differently. His arm is very straight at contact (which is also true of Fish, Paradorn, and Mark P...), but it's his follow through that really sets him apart. On a lot of his forehands his racket never goes any higher than chest level, his swing almost has the level trajectory of a baseball swing, yet he generates incredible topspin.!Tym said:
This is new to me. The way you're distinguishing the follow through from the rest of the stroke is puzzling. When I'm hitting a groundstroke, I imagine the follow through more than anything when deciding the trajectory of the ball I'm about to hit.
That's just one variation of the backhand. I wouldn't recommend anybody hitting with a punctuated follow through like that for every shot in the name of a full follow through not being necessary. Again, this goes against all conventional wisdom. I know from experience, from teaching people how to hit groundstrokes, that telling them to make sure they're follow through is a certain way makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the entire stroke.
You say it doesn't add anything, then go on to say it allows him to accelerate more. I guess all I can say is that a full groundstroke, like a drive in golf, requires a full follow through. The backswing, point of contact, and follow through are all part of the same stroke. They are all equally important. In fact, I'd almost argue that the backswing is less important than the follow through if only because with your prepare late, with today's racket you can do a buggy whip forehand with an exaggerated straight up follow through and still hit a decent shot.
crazylevity
Hall of Fame
Federer does pronate his wrist on impact...slow motion videos at 500 frames per second have confirmed this...
Also, he uses his whole body when he's going for a huge forehand, literally jumping into the ball as he hits....results in huge power. I've tried this with mixed results, simple because I can't hit the ball THAT cleanly when going for that much.
Also, he uses his whole body when he's going for a huge forehand, literally jumping into the ball as he hits....results in huge power. I've tried this with mixed results, simple because I can't hit the ball THAT cleanly when going for that much.
AJK1 said:
This is how:
http://www.xgeneracija1984.d2g.com:8080/StrokeAnalysis/Nikola front.mov
http://www.xgeneracija1984.d2g.com:8080/StrokeAnalysis/Nikola side.mov
http://www.xgeneracija1984.d2g.com:8080/StrokeAnalysis/Nikola rear.mov
http://www.xgeneracija1984.d2g.com:8080/StrokeAnalysis/Agasi- Nikola.mov
crazylevity said:
Umm, not really what's going on. Fed's low to high explosion pulls him off the ground after contact--he's not "jumping into the ball"--a common confusion which costs lots of points at the club level when people really wanna hit like a pro.
yes once in a while a player like a safin will jump up to put a high ball in his strike zone and hit it while jumping; but the basic huge stroke you see from Fed when he hits winners from the service line isnt a jump then hit but the energy of his upward movement pulling him off the court after hes hit.
G
Gary Britt
Guest
callitout said:
I disagree. He rotates around into the shot and gets extra speed on that rotation by using his legs to drive himself up and toward the ball. He does it so smoothly its pretty sweet timing. I think that constitutes jumping into the ball, but there is a lot more going on during his forehand than just that.
Gary
G
Gary Britt
Guest
predrag said:
Thanks for these links.
Gary
He's alot like a locked-in baseball pitcher. His mechanics never seem to suffer, and he's able to generate the same neuromuscular pattern for that stroke each and every time. Again, this is a guy who, even when he loses, doesn't really have "off days," so part of that consistency is his ability to repeat a successful stroke pattern thousands of times. The result is a forehand that's always on.
A helpful contrast might be to compare Fed's FH to the Roddick FH, or even a big server's serve. We've seen Andy's FH not show up, be surprisingly ineffective, or be neutralized by certain opponents, yet we always come out of that still agreeing that Andy has a huge FH that was "off." Or, think about a big server, say Phillopoussis. You look forward to the match, a mishit and a let cord later, there's the break and so much for that.
Federer hasn't been susceptible to that kind of chanciness in ages. A big part of his talent is his ability to play at a high level as a matter of course. Amazing!
A helpful contrast might be to compare Fed's FH to the Roddick FH, or even a big server's serve. We've seen Andy's FH not show up, be surprisingly ineffective, or be neutralized by certain opponents, yet we always come out of that still agreeing that Andy has a huge FH that was "off." Or, think about a big server, say Phillopoussis. You look forward to the match, a mishit and a let cord later, there's the break and so much for that.
Federer hasn't been susceptible to that kind of chanciness in ages. A big part of his talent is his ability to play at a high level as a matter of course. Amazing!
livthemoment
New User
Most every modern male pro hits their forehand in the Same style as Federer. The younger women like Demintiava is also hitting this style. It is nick named the millinium forehand. And the It is controled by the follow through. Simply take the racquet back (using semi-west to western grip) with shoulder turn. Start the swing with the racquet above the ball. Let the racquet drop with gravity to add power to the shot. The racquet head will be closed. Impact the ball in front of feet. The motion of follow through is a windshield wiper (like on a car) in the vertical plane just like a car. The racquet should finish pointing down ranging from the shoulder to the waist(this is if you are not running or stretching to get a ball) with you elbow pointing toward the sky.
It takes maybe 5-10min to learn, and adds power and excessive topspin. Just grab a bucket of balls. To learn more just go to t.e.n.n.i.s.o.n..e...c..o.m without periods.
It takes maybe 5-10min to learn, and adds power and excessive topspin. Just grab a bucket of balls. To learn more just go to t.e.n.n.i.s.o.n..e...c..o.m without periods.
FedererUberAlles
Professional
It's a very comfortable way to hit a forehand, I must say.
