How Much Difference Does Modern Technique Make?

Frank Silbermann

Professional
I know that Ken Rosewall beat Rod Laver in some important matches, even though Laver hit topspin off both sides and Rosewall barely ever used any topspin. I know that Jimmy Connors sometimes beat Bjorn Borg and Aaron Krickstein, even though they used modern technique and Connors hit the ball remarkably flat. But this was still in the days of wooden rackets (or their near equivalents).

All the pros today use modern technique, but the game is so competitive today that they cannot afford to forego even a very small advantage. So how much of a difference does it really make; particularly at lower levels where we're not talking about the very best of the very best?

For example, how much worse off is John McEnroe as a sixty-year old for still using the continental grip? Are there lots of non-name players his age who could beat him because they transitioned their groundstrokes to the new technique, but he didn't?
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Amongst the top ranks of the ATP Tour it matters as you have to hit at the highest pace/spin and be consistent while having amazing footwork to play defense and convert defense to offense in the blink of an eye. At lower levels, you can play with any older technique and still be good enough to beat everyone if you have had more hours of practice than your typical opponents.

Textbook technique is good enough even if it is an older technique as long as you are facing old guys or low level rec hacks who have never seen a textbook.
 
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Pumpkin

Professional
I am entertaining ideas of revolutionising the volley. It's the one shot that hasn't changed. But maybe it needs to in order to combat the evolutuon of the passing shots. I'm working on putting a slight "flicking" motion in prior to the traditional punching motion. To get more power.
 

Pumpkin

Professional
I'm not sure if McEnroe uses a continental grip. Are you talking about on the forehand? It looks more like an eastern to me. Edberg used a continental.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
I am entertaining ideas of revolutionising the volley

I know a coach who FIRMLY believes most volleys should be hit with a frying pan grip at shoulder height (bend way down if the ball is a little low). The thinking is that you don't have to change grips and you can charge in and literally "punch it" for a winner rather than touch volley or hit a neutral ball.

I never got into it.
 

Pumpkin

Professional
I know a coach who FIRMLY believes most volleys should be hit with a frying pan grip at shoulder height (bend way down if the ball is a little low). The thinking is that you don't have to change grips and you can charge in and literally "punch it" for a winner rather than touch volley or hit a neutral ball.

I never got into it.
Don't know about that one. Hahaha. I like the imagination though.
 

KYHacker

Professional
Depends on what you mean by modern technique. Medvedev's technique isn't all that modern. For anyone 5.0 and below, modern technique doesn't have any advantages and is probably holding a lot of folks back. I changed my forehand to an ATP style a few years back. I gained spin, but I didn't really gain any power, and the footwork is actually a little more complicated to execute consistently because it needs to vary based on court positioning. What is best for most players is simple, compact technique that is consistently repeatable. For that, classic technique can actually be a lot better since it uses larger muscle groups and has far less to go wrong. At the very highest levels of the game where maximum athleticism, maximum pace, and maximum spin are involved modern and nextgen technique probably has some advantages, but I think a good deal of that really depends on the court surface and weight of the ball.
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
I am entertaining ideas of revolutionising the volley. It's the one shot that hasn't changed. But maybe it needs to in order to combat the evolutuon of the passing shots. I'm working on putting a slight "flicking" motion in prior to the traditional punching motion. To get more power.

that's already a thing, pete did it all the time!
 

Oval_Solid

Hall of Fame
its depends how hard you want to work
even with bad technique you can play at the pro level but you have to work harder than someone with better technique
its the same playing at the park as well
 

Visionary

Hall of Fame
I don't think there's a clear answer to the question. Hitting fast, flat balls may mean that they'll come back fast to you; hitting top spins may mean that you have a 0.1 second more time to recover and return to your position before the ball comes back. Players' footwork, agility and strategies depending whom they are to play matter whichever choice they'll make. I hope my humble opinion isn't too much of a mumbo jumbo here.
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
I know that Ken Rosewall beat Rod Laver in some important matches, even though Laver hit topspin off both sides and Rosewall barely ever used any topspin. I know that Jimmy Connors sometimes beat Bjorn Borg and Aaron Krickstein, even though they used modern technique and Connors hit the ball remarkably flat. But this was still in the days of wooden rackets (or their near equivalents).

All the pros today use modern technique, but the game is so competitive today that they cannot afford to forego even a very small advantage. So how much of a difference does it really make; particularly at lower levels where we're not talking about the very best of the very best?

For example, how much worse off is John McEnroe as a sixty-year old for still using the continental grip? Are there lots of non-name players his age who could beat him because they transitioned their groundstrokes to the new technique, but he didn't?
HUGE.

A continental grip player will get his butt kicked. That's not a grip for base liners or any kind of power player. Pete had an Eastern grip and he had immense power and spin on his forehands. It's not just the grip. Modern forehand uses angular momentum. Open stance forehands were a novelty in those days - mostly used when pulled wide. But, most Spanish players use open stance which allows for more options. Then there is reverse forehand (buggy whip). Players of yesteryears would not use this type of forehand popularised first by Sampras on the run. Nadal took it to a different level.
The racket preparation (on the same side of the body) for ATP forehand allows for more pop. The takeback with racket pointing at the opponent (Sock, Thiem, Kyrgios) allows for racket to snap a longer distance and impart more spin.

On the backhand side, I can only think of Wawrinka taking it to a different level by opening up his body. Traditionally, single handed backhands were executed with a closed stance (Fed). We all know how powerful Wawrinka's backhand is.

I don't think double handed backhand has had a lot of technique changes but I haven't been paying attention.

Volleys clearly have suffered because the modern players do not know how to volley Sampras or Edberg or Becker or McEnroe style. In that department on a fast carpet, McEnroe would eat the modern players alive.

Serve - I don't see a lot of change. But then no one can serve like Sampras. He was the best server of all time and he had a unique serve motion. Same goes for McEnroe.. That body turn on serve is not easy.


Another point about forehand. Modern players like Nadal hit different. It is difficult to describe outside a tennis court. After you hit the ball, you sort of fall backwards (sounds counter intuitive, right?). Think about hitting an off forehand. Now hit every forehand like that but in different directions. The ball will have side spin and top spin. Oscar Wegner described that forehand here:


Players of yesteryears would not have hit like that. So, the technique that has evolved makes a huge difference.
 

JustBob

Hall of Fame
Technique in the 70's-80's was very rigid, it was "the right way or the highway" (and that's not just in tennis). In hindsight, that was a very narrow minded approach to coaching sports. Today, "correct technique" is much more fluid/varied and what works for a player, even if it looks unorthodox, isn't automatically labeled as "bad".
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
Technique in the 70's-80's was very rigid, it was "the right way or the highway" (and that's not just in tennis). In hindsight, that was a very narrow minded approach to coaching sports. Today, "correct technique" is much more fluid/varied and what works for a player, even if it looks unorthodox, isn't automatically labeled as "bad".

With the disclaimer: ‘if it is shown to work within a short span of time’. IMO there’s comparatively less variation in techniques in the highest rungs of most sports today.
 

TennisLurker

Professional
Federer and Del Potro having perhaps the two best forehands, in the recent past, with an eastern grip, makes me think the modern Kachanov style forehand isn't really an improvement. It's just at best something that modern kids find easier and they stick with it



 

Jonesy

Legend
I know that Ken Rosewall beat Rod Laver in some important matches, even though Laver hit topspin off both sides and Rosewall barely ever used any topspin. I know that Jimmy Connors sometimes beat Bjorn Borg and Aaron Krickstein, even though they used modern technique and Connors hit the ball remarkably flat. But this was still in the days of wooden rackets (or their near equivalents).

All the pros today use modern technique, but the game is so competitive today that they cannot afford to forego even a very small advantage. So how much of a difference does it really make; particularly at lower levels where we're not talking about the very best of the very best?

For example, how much worse off is John McEnroe as a sixty-year old for still using the continental grip? Are there lots of non-name players his age who could beat him because they transitioned their groundstrokes to the new technique, but he didn't?
images
 

GoldenSwing

Rookie
You must've coached Djokovic.
From what I've seen Djokovic has extreme textbook form on all of his strokes. They're also the most replicable and modern.

It's also why he looks like a default tennis player in a video game


As for technique you definitely need modern form to play competitively at the park. As soon as I see someone with a continental grip and forehand doesn't windshield wipe, I know I can easily outhit and outlast them from the baseline lol. Most high school kids are able to beat older more experienced players because of this.

Modern form gives you control, power, and more spin. There's no reason not to use it.
 
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Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
I am entertaining ideas of revolutionising the volley. It's the one shot that hasn't changed. But maybe it needs to in order to combat the evolutuon of the passing shots. I'm working on putting a slight "flicking" motion in prior to the traditional punching motion. To get more power.

If S&V and eastern/continental forehands still worked, people would use them.

Volleys' decline has nothing to do with the volleyer, and everything to do with the other player being able to hit earlier and better passing shots due to better racquet and string tech.
 

Jason Swerve

Hall of Fame
From what I've seen Djokovic has extreme textbook form on all of his strokes. They're also the most replicable and modern.

It's also why he looks like a default tennis player in a video game


As for technique you definitely need modern form to play competitively at the park. As soon as I see someone with a continental grip and forehand doesn't windshield wipe, I know I can easily outhit and outlast them from the baseline lol. Most high school kids are able to beat older more experienced players because of this.

Modern form gives you control, power, and more spin. There's no reason not to use it.
Do you have backup for the bolded, or is it anecdotal? You can't call that guy 'textbook' when he slides all over the place. On concrete.

And that's just the first issue. The first of many.
 

Pumpkin

Professional
If S&V and eastern/continental forehands still worked, people would use them.

Volleys' decline has nothing to do with the volleyer, and everything to do with the other player being able to hit earlier and better passing shots due to better racquet and string tech.
Yes. That's the point I made. The volley needs to evolve in order to combat the passing shots. I'm working on it.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Yes. That's the point I made. The volley needs to evolve in order to combat the passing shots. I'm working on it.

But it's not in your control lol. Not unless you can double your speed or use a 32" racquet.

Whatever you think you can do on your side of the net, it won't change what they're doing.
 

Pumpkin

Professional
But it's not in your control lol. Not unless you can double your speed or use a 32" racquet.

Whatever you think you can do on your side of the net, it won't change what they're doing.
Yes that's a good point. If you can't reach the ball there's nothing you can do.

But imagine you have a volley just below net height and you punch it into the open court but the opponent still gets there and hits a pass. I'm talking about developing a volley that has twice the speed so he can't track it down to make the pass. A SUPER VOLLEY !!!
 

Rogerer

Rookie
It's a different game. If you watch the basket(same balls and court) you understand the impact of the new technologies in the sports(some chamberlain play are impressive even today).
 

aldeayeah

G.O.A.T.
Do you have backup for the bolded, or is it anecdotal? You can't call that guy 'textbook' when he slides all over the place. On concrete.

And that's just the first issue. The first of many.
Care to elaborate? I struggle to see the issues in Djokovic's technique
 

chrischris

G.O.A.T.
I don't think there's a clear answer to the question. Hitting fast, flat balls may mean that they'll come back fast to you; hitting top spins may mean that you have a 0.1 second more time to recover and return to your position before the ball comes back. Players' footwork, agility and strategies depending whom they are to play matter whichever choice they'll make. I hope my humble opinion isn't too much of a mumbo jumbo here.

Fair common observations.
 

Jason Swerve

Hall of Fame
That isn't fair, nobody compares to '97 Hingis :p
Definitely, you're correct. At least in her peak month, you'd be. There're a few men and women with the technical aptitude of the teen throughout '97 as a whole, but Martinka herself played light tennis, which is to say she disregarded the rules of the game and hit the ball wherever she wanted, however she wanted, and whenever she wanted, hardly exerting herself on any point, and still winning everything in sight.

Those aren't my words. They're Novotna's words. She's never seen a player so airy and carefree with a racket. You can't imagine it today. The instant Djokovic slides, he's not playing light tennis. Sliding isn't a natural human movement. Martinka directly sauntered up to each and every ball and decided how she wanted the rest of the point to play out.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
They really, really need to ban non-wood racquets the way baseball banned aluminum bats.

Then we would see technical variety again, rather than Bollieterri robots.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure if McEnroe uses a continental grip. Are you talking about on the forehand? It looks more like an eastern to me. Edberg used a continental.

Jmac uses a continental on every shot including his FH.
 
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Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Looks like he has his knuckle on bevel 3 which to me is eastern.

I guess he mislead me. Like I said, he used one grip for every shot — continental. This linked article has it correct. The article also correctly notes that Borg was on bevel 3 which is today referred to as eastern even though many think Borg used semi-western.

 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
They always talk about reaction time being so important in today's game, so why are there so many players with large backswings? You'd think everyone would be as compact as possible.
 

Curtennis

Hall of Fame
They really, really need to ban non-wood racquets the way baseball banned aluminum bats.

Then we would see technical variety again, rather than Bollieterri robots.
It would then be whoever can afford the best wooden racquet. With current construction the King himself can’t buy a better racquet than you and I. With wood, money would speak volumes.
 

AceyMan

Professional
After you hit the ball, you sort of fall backwards (sounds counter intuitive, right?).
Once you realize you're 'slinging' the racquet around like an Olympic hammer thrower then it isn't counterintuitive at all.

Because that's the best way to think about hitting the ball most forcefully.

/Acey
 
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