How to respond to lob pusher in doubles?

[Traffic]

So my Flights ladder is reset this month. So I am on a new court with different players. We'll call this 3.0-3.5. I will be facing a player that is quite good at hitting deep lobs off of nearly any shot given to him. He remains at baseline and that is his go-to shot.

I've played with him before and I nearly broke down trying to counter his lob. I tried returning lobs, topspin lobs of my own. But yes, he hit one more good one than I did.

In the end, I had to just be patient and hit a conservative baseline stroke cc to him and be prepared to do that more than 10x. Many times, I broke down after the 3rd or 4th hit. But later in the set I was able to get to the 5th or 6th hit and his lobs started to fall short or go long.

My only saving grace was that his net partner sometimes got impatient and tried to poach to break up the monotony. He might hit a winner volley or dump it into the net. I tried drilling him directly and he seemed to have good reflexes.

What are other options?

PS. the upshot of this is I enjoy having him as my partner. He parks at baseline and I move up to the net if I'm serving and I own my side of the net. I just hate playing against him...

 

[shazbot]

Learn to hit better over heads.

Doesn't matter how good his lobs are, if you can hit good effective over heads he will always lose.

 

[Traffic]

Learn to hit better over heads.

Doesn't matter how good his lobs are, if you can hit good effective over heads he will always lose.

OH from baseline? If he leaves his lobs short like at the service line, I'll hit it. But when it's bouncing within 1' of baseline, I'm not as confident. I can do a slice OH I suppose.

 

[apriliano]

Bring him to the net.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Practice playing points out from the no-man's-land area, to the service line.

That area's usually undesirable because good players have tons of angles to beat you with, as well as the potential to dip heavy shots at your feet.

All those dangers go away against this kind of player.

Aggressive position close to the net leaves you vulnerable to his lobbing, and passive position leaves you playing his game instead of yours.

But by getting comfortable in traditionally neutral, undesirable terrain, lobs become overheads, swinging volleys against floaters, or sitters you can step into after the bounce.

Accept the necessity that you'll have to err on the side of knowing you'll be taking some swings at balls that may have gone out. He's not denying you aggressive position by being ultra passive; he's merely shifting where it appears on the map.

 

[shazbot]

OH from baseline? If he leaves his lobs short like at the service line, I'll hit it. But when it's bouncing within 1' of baseline, I'm not as confident. I can do a slice OH I suppose.

If the guy is hitting all his lobs within an inch of the line, then your approach shots and or volleys/over heards suck. I'm sorry, but no one can hit every lob within an inch of the baseline unless you are feeding him cream puff shots all day long.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've taken the approach of return a lob with a lob until you get a better opportunity or the opponent tires of the effort. I have the attitude of "Any lob you can do I can do better." It usually only takes about 5 lobs before the person gets it and starts playing horizontal tennis.

Most lobbers don't lob because they are good lobbers. They lob because they know it'll force you to try something too aggressive and miss. And they are right from basically 3.0 all the way to 4.0. If you are not 4.0+, do not follow the advice to OH every lob. That's what the lobber wants you to try.

Just lob the lobber and he'll get the message. Since I started doing this a few months ago, it hasn't failed me yet. I never start the lob war, but I will carry it on until the opponent realizes I'm not going to be goaded into doing something stupid. And admittedly lobs are stupidly easy to hit off of other lobs. It's almost following Wardlaw's rules of hitting the ball squarely back the way it came.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Can you film the match with the lobber ?

 

[zaph]

If the guy is hitting all his lobs within an inch of the line, then your approach shots and or volleys/over heards suck. I'm sorry, but no one can hit every lob within an inch of the baseline unless you are feeding him cream puff shots all day long.

I would agree with that, I have never seen a 3-3.5 level player who can hit top spin lobs accurately off anything decent.

 

[Traffic]

Bring him to the net.

He has a net person. He won't budge from the baseline. I have pulled him off the court with angles to the alley. He'll return 3-4 shots that I mix up. But can I maintain 5-6 to his 3-4 is probably the key.

It's been an exercise in patience. I can hit 2-3 good lobs in a row. I run out of talent after that. I can hit 3-4 good groundstrokes in a row and then I get impatient and try to go DTL with a winner. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Not a high enough percentage shot with a net guy.

I feel like if I stay patient and hit a solid groundstroke, hard enough and angled to keep the net guy honest, but safe enough that I won't hit a UE long or into the net...

Then he starts going after my partner. I figure, I can't worry about that. Just get my shots in.

 

[Traffic]

Practice playing points out from the no-man's-land area, to the service line.

That area's usually undesirable because good players have tons of angles to beat you with, as well as the potential to dip heavy shots at your feet.

All those dangers go away against this kind of player.

Aggressive position close to the net leaves you vulnerable to his lobbing, and passive position leaves you playing his game instead of yours.

But by getting comfortable in traditionally neutral, undesirable terrain, lobs become overheads, swinging volleys against floaters, or sitters you can step into after the bounce.

Accept the necessity that you'll have to err on the side of knowing you'll be taking some swings at balls that may have gone out. He's not denying you aggressive position by being ultra passive; he's merely shifting where it appears on the map.

I was thinking of trying to take a swinging volley. I've had reasonable success in the past, though not as far back as near the baseline. I've become quite passive in my game to work on consistency. I may need to take some calculated chances. Again, not going for winners, but keep the ball in play with a little pressure.

 

[OnTheLine]

I do love baseline OHs, but that doesn't help when they first pulled you short and THEN lobbed you.

My current answer for your situation is to not play. I really am that bad in dealing with the short/lob combination if this is singles.

In doubles ... yes, baseline OH down the middle ... it comes through fast and low and often with a bit of backspin so it skids .... wicked little fun weapon.

Also, to stress a lobber ... hit more towards the middle as it cuts their angles and makes it harder to lob. Longest distance is the cc diagonal, don't let them have the diagonal and a lot of those lobs will be out!

 

[Traffic]

Can you film the match with the lobber ?

I know my club has a camera at each of the courts. I think they are security cameras. But I wonder if they have the ability to record? I'll have to look into that.

Yeah, you would love our bottom court of Flights. So many unpredictable shots. One shot will be a "holy smokes" ripper and then the next shot will be a shank to the side curtains. There is absolutely no rhythm. Your dink second serve does have a 50% chance of being a winner.

But this lobber is very patient. He's not fast. But he can read his opponents and be in the right spot and return it in a manner to make it challenging to hit a strong return. He is susceptible to deeper shots to the corner with a moderate amount of pace and spin. He hugs the baseline and can hit on the rise. But a very deep shot will be close enough to his feet to make even lobs difficult.

I would agree with that, I have never seen a 3-3.5 level player who can hit top spin lobs accurately off anything decent.

There's very little spin on his lobs. I tried to counter with topspin lobs back to him. But I don't have enough consistency to make that worth the risk. I have been dabbling with slice lobs as a defense against other players. I might throw that out there here and there over the net guy in hopes that the ball will fly just enough differently and with enough spin for him to dump into the net if he tries to take an OH.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

OH from baseline? If he leaves his lobs short like at the service line, I'll hit it. But when it's bouncing within 1' of baseline, I'm not as confident. I can do a slice OH I suppose.

Which is why you practice the #@!% out of your OHs, so you can confidently, even from the BL, smash his lobs. And not every lob will go that deep.

Hit short, low, and angled shots to him, which are more difficult to lob than stuff in his strike zone.

Hit a lob over his net partner and see how well he lobs when he's on the run.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If the guy is hitting all his lobs within an inch of the line, then your approach shots and or volleys/over heards suck. I'm sorry, but no one can hit every lob within an inch of the baseline unless you are feeding him cream puff shots all day long.

@Traffic wrote one foot, not one inch.

Still, I'd agree with you that hardly anyone is good enough to consistently hit lobs that deep.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

I play against a 4.5 uber lobber. This guy can take just about any serves, groundstrokes, volleys and lob them close to the baseline 10 times in a row if needed.
The only thing he cannot lob well off is an overhead. Stand at the baseline and hit overheads with some slice and/or topspin like a serve but you have the entire court to work with.
Once in a while, hit the overhead at the lobber's partner at the net.
This is by far the most successful strategy that has worked for me against this superman lobber.
Your overhead must be good to great. Playing against him made me practice it like crazy. Now I win 7 to 8 out of 10 points when he lobs me.

 

[mcs1970]

I would agree with that, I have never seen a 3-3.5 level player who can hit top spin lobs accurately off anything decent.

Maybe the guy is a 4.5 or higher lobber? It is possible that a low ranked player might have one stroke that is well advanced. If that one stroke were a serve it can take the person to a 4.0 or even higher level by itself. Traffic is someone who looks like a good player himself, has his son competing in tourneys regularly and so has seen other good players. If he is saying that this guy is consistently hitting very good lobs at anything thrown at him, I would tend to believe him.

 

[NuBas]

Yeah its tricky because you can get into their game and it becomes lob fest until someone makes an error. I have encountered this type of player and for me overhead is not my solution especially when its a deep, high lob that jumps. Overheads are risky if you are not confident with it especially scrambling side to side trying to get their lobs. I actually try to drop shot them or drop the ball low and very short. That may work or I try to hit back to their partner or just out hustle them.

 

[NuBas]

OR you can try this @ 0:20 seconds into the video

 

[OnTheLine]

oh to have the crazy talent of Bahrami ... magician.

 

[PMChambers]

Bounce smash.
If you can serve into a little box then you can smash into a box 4x the size. Personally I like heavy slice smash from behind the baseline. The side spin makes it harder return and you got to hit it bit faster than fast 2nd serve, all that room. Obviously if there someone up net it's there and if they start running backwards is 100% going at them.
Simply the counter to a lob is a smash.

 

[FiReFTW]

Sounds pretty damn boring and annoying to play a match where someone keeps hitting lob after lob lol.

 

[Bender]

If not the OH, then hit short slices and / or drop shots.

A lot of those guys have great lateral movement but aren't so quick to move forward.

Plus, off a drop shot, the only shot available is a not-too-high lob that you should be able to put away with ease.

 

[styksnstryngs]

Guys, the answer has been staring us all in the face. Spend a year learning to hit a tweener really, really well.

 

[Traffic]

Ok, reporting back. Looks like I got the name of the player on the roster incorrect. It was not the uber lobber. I was ready to keep stats in my head during the night of how many lobs and how many went in and how what tactics I would use to deal with it. All in vain.

My plan was to first try returning consistently and let him run out of good lobs or leave one short. Second tactic was OH from baseline. Third was a swinging volley.

No. It was a weird night. One of the players was "handicapped" due to medical issue. Made great contact with the ball on ground strokes and net but couldn't move his feet. The other player was typical 3.0-3.5. A mix of good shots at baseline and UE. He was the easiest one to deal with; keep the ball in play and let him make a mistake. The last was a sub. Great ground strokes and net play. Good serves too. Only way I won rallies against him was to hit to the middle and make him move. I thought for sure I was going to move up in the ladder, but we ran out of time and while we were up 3-1, we had to split the remaining 4 games. Sub was partnered with player 1 and got some "free" games to bump me from going up.

 

[Traffic]

Sounds pretty damn boring and annoying to play a match where someone keeps hitting lob after lob lol.

I agree it's not my favorite style of play. But I need to be able to deal with it since there are at least 3 players in our club that uses a lot of lots and I need to beat them.

Last 7.0 mixed I played a couple weeks ago, that was a good part of the match. I stayed at net, my partner and the opponents had lob fests. She would easily win against the male player. But against the female player, rallies would last 8+ lobs. I got a work out just getting ready at net, release, get ready at net, release...

 

[Nellie]

OH from baseline? If he leaves his lobs short like at the service line, I'll hit it. But when it's bouncing within 1' of baseline, I'm not as confident. I can do a slice OH I suppose.

I guess I do not understand your positioning/strategy. Are you waiting for the ball to bounce and then hitting an overhead on the bounced ball behind the baseline? If the lob is landing deep, near the baseline it would be at a good height for an overhead before the bounce between the service line and baseline (no mans land). From this positioning, I would not go for a big overhead if you are not confident. I would take a 70 percent swing and aim away from the player at the baseline. If you are having trouble with misses, trying choking up on the handle (move you hand a couple of inches from the buttcap) for better control. I would not lob back because this player is better at lobs than you and I would not want to get into a lob contest.

 

[Traffic]

Maybe the guy is a 4.5 or higher lobber? It is possible that a low ranked player might have one stroke that is well advanced. If that one stroke were a serve it can take the person to a 4.0 or even higher level by itself. Traffic is someone who looks like a good player himself, has his son competing in tourneys regularly and so has seen other good players. If he is saying that this guy is consistently hitting very good lobs at anything thrown at him, I would tend to believe him.

The lobber is old. I'm sure he played much better at a younger age. His strokes are actually not bad. But they don't do much damage compared to his lobs.

My son is a good player. I watch all of his skills class, tournament matches, coaching sessions. So I have a bunch of knowledge in my head. But that doesn't necessarily translate into what my body can do.

I guess I do not understand your positioning/strategy. Are you waiting for the ball to bounce and then hitting an overhead on the bounced ball behind the baseline? If the lob is landing deep, near the baseline it would be at a good height for an overhead before the bounce between the service line and baseline (no mans land). From this positioning, I would not go for a big overhead if you are not confident. I would take a 70 percent swing and aim away from the player at the baseline. If you are having trouble with misses, trying choking up on the handle (move you hand a couple of inches from the buttcap) for better control. I would not lob back because this player is better at lobs than you and I would not want to get into a lob contest.

Yes, I'm letting the ball bounce. Mostly because they are coming in so close to the baseline, I wonder if it's out. Then I'm backed up to the curtain and it becomes a tougher shot to hit with any authority.

I will try to take it out of the air with an OH or swinging volley next time I run into him.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

So my Flights ladder is reset this month. So I am on a new court with different players. We'll call this 3.0-3.5. I will be facing a player that is quite good at hitting deep lobs off of nearly any shot given to him. He remains at baseline and that is his go-to shot.

I've played with him before and I nearly broke down trying to counter his lob. I tried returning lobs, topspin lobs of my own. But yes, he hit one more good one than I did.

In the end, I had to just be patient and hit a conservative baseline stroke cc to him and be prepared to do that more than 10x. Many times, I broke down after the 3rd or 4th hit. But later in the set I was able to get to the 5th or 6th hit and his lobs started to fall short or go long.

My only saving grace was that his net partner sometimes got impatient and tried to poach to break up the monotony. He might hit a winner volley or dump it into the net. I tried drilling him directly and he seemed to have good reflexes.

What are other options?

PS. the upshot of this is I enjoy having him as my partner. He parks at baseline and I move up to the net if I'm serving and I own my side of the net. I just hate playing against him...

why don't i see anything about overheads in your text?

if your overhead sucked, i'd lob you all day.

one of the drills i do fairly regularly is a volley, overhead game... basically play out a "game" but the person at the net can only hit overheads and volleys cc.

the first time you show someone you can hit an overhead, they won't do it (much).

in the warmups, i like running down deep overheads (ie. even beyond the baseline), because i know if i nail it, it will send a message. if i miss it, well it was out anyway, but will send the message that i'm willing and happy to hit overheads. most folks with crappy overheads, will avoid taking overheads thinking they are "hiding" their weakness... so that's often the first shot i go to in the match.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

If the guy is hitting all his lobs within an inch of the line, then your approach shots and or volleys/over heards suck. I'm sorry, but no one can hit every lob within an inch of the baseline unless you are feeding him cream puff shots all day long.

i challenge anyone to take a basket of balls and try hitting high lobs within a foot of the baseline.
i self feed this to myself from time to time, and can't do it (regularly), and my lobs are decent.
i'm aiming high, and hopefully for a 4-5ft area in the back court preferably bh side.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

OH from baseline? If he leaves his lobs short like at the service line, I'll hit it. But when it's bouncing within 1' of baseline, I'm not as confident. I can do a slice OH I suppose.

i spin back all OH's in NML and beyond... goal is to use it as an approach shot and not give up position at the net.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Which is why you practice the #@!% out of your OHs, so you can confidently, even from the BL, smash his lobs. And not every lob will go that deep.

Hit short, low, and angled shots to him, which are more difficult to lob than stuff in his strike zone.

Hit a lob over his net partner and see how well he lobs when he's on the run.

+1
way harder to hit lobs off low slice approach shots from nml
much easier to hit lobs off a topspin ball that is carrying beyond the baseline.