If Djokovic loses...

Will it change how Fedal play?

  • No, they’ll play the same

    Votes: 22 45.8%
  • Yes, both will push themselves even more knowing whoever wins will likely take the crown

    Votes: 26 54.2%

  • Total voters
    48
#10
Yeah, they'll fight harder. I think Federer would be more okay with pushing himself to the breaking point to win #21 and #9 at Wimbledon. He'll want to both stop Nadal from the inevitable #19 (and #20 at RG next year) and push his own tally to #21.

Maybe Nadal less so, knowing that he will have other chances to win slams, presumably. This hypothetical scenario would probably be Federer's last, best chance.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
#14
It won't change anything. They still have to beat the person they are playing to make it further.
I strongly disagree. If Djokovic turns up sick or injured (which is the only way he could possibly lose), then Fedal know that if they win the semi, they win the tournament. It's the same dynamic as last year when mug Anderson awaited them in the final. That makes the match even of higher magnitude. Nadal will be absolutely and insanely ruthless if he knows RBA awaits him, and will be even harder for Fed to beat. If he knows Djoker is waiting him, this will play a part in his mindset and approach... no question.
 
#15
Why would they want to distract themselves from their set gameplan ? Why would they want the thought of final looming over their present match ?


It might be impossible to not know, since they will probably have to wait in the locker room though.


Fed usually puts in a stinker when he knows beforehand that Rafa/Novak have lost. USO 2014 comes to mind.
 
#16
This kind of threads are overarrogant from Djokovic fans. How is that result going to change Nadal's mentality exactly? Nadal WANTS to be in the final, with or without Djokovic. He is not thinking "I don't have a chance" but rather "I want my 3th Wimbledon and a revenge of last year extremelly close final".
Yeah, they'll fight harder
Most unobjective comment ever. No they won't fight any less because Djokovic wins.
 
#17
This kind of threads are overarrogant from Djokovic fans. How is that result going to change Nadal's mentality exactly? Nadal WANTS to be in the final, with or without Djokovic. He is not thinking "I don't have a chance" but rather "I want my 3th Wimbledon and a revenge of last year extremelly close final".
Most unobjective comment ever. No they won't fight any less because Djokovic wins.
It isn't them trying any less hard, Sport. It's about them pushing themselves to the breaking point. Also, I was mostly talking about Federer. Nadal is probably fighting at the same intensity either way.

Think about it this way.
1. You have to imagine Federer plays at a level that keeps him from being injured. He plays as good as he can without pushing his body to its limits and hurting himself. This allows him to compete for more slams when he sees an opportunity.
2. Beating Nadal then Djokovic is an incredibly tough task. He cannot be expected to win against Nadal and Djokovic playing less than 100%, but perhaps he can against RBA.
3. If Djokovic waits in the final, he can (not guaranteed, but also not a bad chance) beat Nadal and keep Nadal at only 18 GS, as opposed to 19 (one away from his GS count).
4. Nadal against RBA is practically a foregone conclusion.

Therefore if Djokovic loses, two realistic possibilities arise: Federer can win one more grand slam or Nadal can get within 1 of his slam count. (I do not count RBA beating 2 of the Big 3 as realistic.)

Of course, Federer would love the former and dislike the latter, so he'll push himself harder. If he sees the opportunity (Djokovic losing), then all he needs to do is beat Nadal. Of course, that isn't easy, but if it's an even match, I have no doubt Federer will start ignoring that voice in his head that says "don't get injured" and will push himself as hard as he can. If he still loses then, there was no way he was winning another GS. If he wins, he's practically already won #21.

I don't see what part of that is subjective, and I don't appreciate the false dichotomy. It isn't Nadal saying "I don't have a chance" or "I have a chance". It's Federer saying "I have to beat both Nadal and Djokovic" or "This is my last chance. I need to beat Nadal here, or else I'll never win another slam."
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
#19
I strongly disagree. If Djokovic turns up sick or injured (which is the only way he could possibly lose), then Fedal know that if they win the semi, they win the tournament. It's the same dynamic as last year when mug Anderson awaited them in the final. That makes the match even of higher magnitude. Nadal will be absolutely and insanely ruthless if he knows RBA awaits him, and will be even harder for Fed to beat. If he knows Djoker is waiting him, this will play a part in his mindset and approach... no question.
That works both ways. Federer will be harder to beat too.
 
#20
This kind of threads are overarrogant from Djokovic fans. How is that result going to change Nadal's mentality exactly?
If Nole had gone on to the match against Thiem knowing he would face Federer and not Nadal I think he would have pushed himself harder.
 
#22
Both these guys are legends of the game. And part of what makes them legends is their ability to focus on things they can control. It doesn't matter if Djokovic is knocked out if they don't win their respective match. This is a Wimbledon Semi-Final match. These guys are going to try to kill each other just for a chance to play for the title regardless of the final opponent.
 
#23
They’re human. Of course they will be even more motivated to make it to the final if the favorite and biggest obstacle is out. They’d obviously deny it and say it doesn’t matter, I would play the same way and doing my best regardless of who is on the other side of the net, blablabla. That’s bs, let’s not kid ourselves. It’s perfectly normal to be extra motivated when you know you’ll pratically be a lock for the title if you reach the final.
 
#24
You are suggesting the 2 ATGs will willingly put in less than 100% if Novak is in the final? Huh?
I think mentally it would put them in a different stratosphere knowing they don't have to play Novak in the final. The effort will be there 100% whoever is in the final of Novak or agut, but mentally it will ease their mind a whole lot playing that SF.
 
#25
This kind of threads are overarrogant from Djokovic fans. How is that result going to change Nadal's mentality exactly? Nadal WANTS to be in the final, with or without Djokovic. He is not thinking "I don't have a chance" but rather "I want my 3th Wimbledon and a revenge of last year extremelly close final".
Most unobjective comment ever. No they won't fight any less because Djokovic wins.
Yeah, these guys want to play the best because they think they can beat the best, and they have.

There is a reason they are all time greats, and it's not cause they want to win the easy ones.
 
#27
It isn't them trying any less hard, Sport. It's about them pushing themselves to the breaking point. Also, I was mostly talking about Federer. Nadal is probably fighting at the same intensity either way.

Think about it this way.
1. You have to imagine Federer plays at a level that keeps him from being injured. He plays as good as he can without pushing his body to its limits and hurting himself. This allows him to compete for more slams when he sees an opportunity.
2. Beating Nadal then Djokovic is an incredibly tough task. He cannot be expected to win against Nadal and Djokovic playing less than 100%, but perhaps he can against RBA.
3. If Djokovic waits in the final, he can (not guaranteed, but also not a bad chance) beat Nadal and keep Nadal at only 18 GS, as opposed to 19 (one away from his GS count).
4. Nadal against RBA is practically a foregone conclusion.

Therefore if Djokovic loses, two realistic possibilities arise: Federer can win one more grand slam or Nadal can get within 1 of his slam count. (I do not count RBA beating 2 of the Big 3 as realistic.)

Of course, Federer would love the former and dislike the latter, so he'll push himself harder. If he sees the opportunity (Djokovic losing), then all he needs to do is beat Nadal. Of course, that isn't easy, but if it's an even match, I have no doubt Federer will start ignoring that voice in his head that says "don't get injured" and will push himself as hard as he can. If he still loses then, there was no way he was winning another GS. If he wins, he's practically already won #21.

I don't see what part of that is subjective, and I don't appreciate the false dichotomy. It isn't Nadal saying "I don't have a chance" or "I have a chance". It's Federer saying "I have to beat both Nadal and Djokovic" or "This is my last chance. I need to beat Nadal here, or else I'll never win another slam."
OK, thanks for the clarification @TripleATeam. You are right in your analysis, maybe I am dismissing the psychological factors in tennis matchups. Sorry the effusive language that I employed. Have a nice evening and enjoy tomorrow's semifinal.
 
#29
OK, thanks for the clarification @TripleATeam. You are right in your analysis, maybe I am dismissing the psychological factors in tennis matchups. Sorry the effusive language that I employed. Have a nice evening and enjoy tomorrow's semifinal.
Quite all right! You have a great day too. I'll see you during the match thread for Federer/Nadal, I hope? In any case, I hope if Nadal makes the final, we see some sparks fly as they play. :)
 
#30
I think mentally it would put them in a different stratosphere knowing they don't have to play Novak in the final. The effort will be there 100% whoever is in the final of Novak or agut, but mentally it will ease their mind a whole lot playing that SF.
The poll says they will push themselves harder with RBA in the final. I think that is ridiculous.
 
#33
Well fed does. He said that's the only reason he played the FO. To Beat Rafa...
He just wanted to play Rafa once more at RG before the end of his career, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t prefer facing easier opponents in general. But my point was that just because you’re an ATG, it doesn’t mean you want to face the best opponents, it just means you’re good enough to beat everybody.
 
#34
He just wanted to play Rafa once more at RG before the end of his career, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t prefer facing easier opponents in general. But my point was that just because you’re an ATG, it doesn’t mean you want to face the best opponents, it just means you’re good enough to beat everybody.
I disagree, they may prefer a weaker opponent, but they definitely like playing the best. Now maybe I went a little far saying the prefer it, but they definitely would prefer to get the win over one of them.

Why was AO17 ten times better than 18? Because it was against Rafa.
 
#35
People are dreaming if they think Djokovic is as invincible as he was. He's losing best-of-3 finals, he's losing Slam semis he really wanted to win, he's making a shedload of unforced errors, and he's generally looking like a veteran tennis player. This is all to play for.
 
#36
I strongly disagree. If Djokovic turns up sick or injured (which is the only way he could possibly lose), then Fedal know that if they win the semi, they win the tournament. It's the same dynamic as last year when mug Anderson awaited them in the final. That makes the match even of higher magnitude. Nadal will be absolutely and insanely ruthless if he knows RBA awaits him, and will be even harder for Fed to beat. If he knows Djoker is waiting him, this will play a part in his mindset and approach... no question.
Should make a difference to Federer too: if he knows the final is against Djokovic, he knows he has to put his all in two matches in a row. That could be very psychologically damaging if it gets to be a close and long match against Nadal. If he knows the final is Bautista Agut, someone he has usually beaten easily in the past, he will have that much extra energy to get over the finishing line against Nadal.
 
#38
People are dreaming if they think Djokovic is as invincible as he was. He's losing best-of-3 finals, he's losing Slam semis he really wanted to win, he's making a shedload of unforced errors, and he's generally looking like a veteran tennis player. This is all to play for.
The man had no chance against Rafa in the final anyway, and a single loss is not adequate to establish a pattern. That being said, of course he's not invincible. He's just the favorite in the matchup.

Also, he's lost 4 best of 3 finals in the last year and a half. Queens to Cilic, before he regained his confidence (most people consider Edmund Wimbledon 2018 to be where he did), Madrid to Rafa (He lost on clay to Nadal. He also won a set. Not bad.), Zverev WTF and Khachanov Paris (I admit you win here, but clearly that meant nothing, as he won the AO in dominant fashion).

I don't see where BO3 is an indicator of form for current Djokovic, and that RG semi doesn't prove much. The UEs might be the best indicator of form, but Djokovic raised his level at the AO - who's to say he won't do the same here?
 
#39
It would galvanize them of course. Although, ultimately the reward would be higher if they could win it by beating Djoko (in terms of their rivalry, head to head, etc).
ETA: it would give the Fedal semi so much more weight because then, that semi would become the de facto final (like last year's semi between Djoko and Nadal), so it could increase the pressure as well. (Not that relevant since all big 3 are beasts at coping with pressure)
 
Last edited:
#40
They'll push hard regardless but it would be a bonus for both knowing that if they can find a way to win they are essentially playing a final instead of a semi. Both would be wary of a fresh Djokovic waiting for the winner at the end of their potentially gruelling match. If he's not there, it changes everything.
 
#42
I strongly disagree. If Djokovic turns up sick or injured (which is the only way he could possibly lose), then Fedal know that if they win the semi, they win the tournament. It's the same dynamic as last year when mug Anderson awaited them in the final. That makes the match even of higher magnitude. Nadal will be absolutely and insanely ruthless if he knows RBA awaits him, and will be even harder for Fed to beat. If he knows Djoker is waiting him, this will play a part in his mindset and approach... no question.
I somewhat agree with this, though I think it could in actuality put more pressure on Nadal and make him play worse. To have a straightforward final awaiting two years in a row so long as he can beat one of the greatest of all time in the semis. It might make him a little tight knowing he probably won’t get that kind of opportunity too many more times. But realistically I’m not sure it would affect the outcome of the match and even more realistically, Djokovic isn’t losing.
 
#49
It's not that they won't be trying hard if Djokovic awaits. It's that they will be more confident if Djokovic does not await.
OP says they will push themselves harder if RBA is in the final, meaning they will go into the match putting in less than 100% in a Wimbledon semifinal if it’s Novak waiting.

Crazy.
 
Top