Incredible rally, but what was Federer thinking?

[Hitman]

Nadal hits two FHDTL shots, the second one requiring Federer to pull off an astonishing squash shot cross court...Nadal clearly feeling that ball up the line, and Federer decides to go inside out back into that shot, instead of trying to go inside in, as Rafa was leaning that way, with open court...

Then again maybe the whole thing was just instinctive brilliance from both, and they were reacting to each other rather than carefully planning what was needed.

Best rally the two played against each other though IMO.

 

[travlerajm]

Nadal hits two FHDTL shots, the second one requiring Federer to pull off an astonishing squash shot cross court...Nadal clearly feeling that ball up the line, and Federer decides to go inside out back into that shot, instead of trying to go inside in, as Rafa was leaning that way, with open court...

Then again maybe the whole thing was just instinctive brilliance from both, and they were reacting to each other rather than carefully planning what was needed.

Best rally the two played against each other though IMO.

My memory of that match was that Nadal’s crosscourt bh was the best he had ever played that day.

 

[Kralingen]

The real match-up nightmare Nadal posed for Federer was not just the topspin to da backhand.

It's that Fed's inside-out FH is probably the best singular shot of the 21st century and Nadal was uniquely equipped to nerf it in ways that no player in the history of the game ever has or ever will be able to do. Fed's money shot was always the I/O FH and he would always use it in crucial moments.

 

[ForehandRF]

8 years later.It seems like they wanted to replay the point

 

[Hitman]

My memory of that match was that Nadal’s crosscourt bh was the best he had ever played that day.

So Federer decided to go to the FHDTL three times in the same rally, two them being completely out of position?

 

[Hitman]

8 years later.It seems like they wanted to replay the point

Well Federer had to win one of those exchanges, again FHDTL winner.

 

[ForehandRF]

The real match-up nightmare Nadal posed for Federer was not just the topspin to da backhand.

It's that Fed's inside-out FH is probably the best singular shot of the 21st century and Nadal was uniquely equipped to nerf it in ways that no player in the history of the game ever has or ever will be able to do. Fed's money shot was always the I/O FH and he would always use it in crucial moments.

Fed's I/O couldn't penetrate that slow court and that coupled with the Road Runner on the other side of the net and there you go

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Nadal hits two FHDTL shots, the second one requiring Federer to pull off an astonishing squash shot cross court...Nadal clearly feeling that ball up the line, and Federer decides to go inside out back into that shot, instead of trying to go inside in, as Rafa was leaning that way, with open court...

Then again maybe the whole thing was just instinctive brilliance from both, and they were reacting to each other rather than carefully planning what was needed.

Best rally the two played against each other though IMO.

Probably tried to wrongfoot the nadal and ended up outsmarting himself, lol. Also going inside-out is easier for him from that position.

 

[travlerajm]

So Federer decided to go to the FHDTL three times in the same rally, two them being completely out of position?

Going into that match, Federer still was under the stubborn delusion that his fh was the best in the world,

It cost him again in the 2009 US Open final, when feeding Delpo’s bh all match would have resulted in a routine victory.

 

[Hitman]

Probably tried to wrongfoot the nadal and ended up outsmarting himself, lol. Also going inside-out is easier for him from that position.

Yes, but he did that exact shot earlier and barely made it to the FHDTL. You could be right about the fact he may have just outsmarted himself there

 

[Kralingen]

Probably tried to wrongfoot the nadal and ended up outsmarting himself, lol. Also going inside-out is easier for him from that position.

Fed's I/O couldn't penetrate that slow court and that coupled with the Road Runner on the other side of the net and there you go

Once we peel back the layers, the real answer is clearly that Fed was too arrogant and should have humbled himself to go inside-in. Of course this is the reason for all of his failures at the end of the day.

 

[Hitman]

Going into that match, Federer still was under the stubborn delusion that his fh was the best in the world,

No better example of that was USO 2009 final.

 

[prosperned]

Nadal and Fed summed up, disgusting to see that point cancelled out by servebotting.

 

[junior74]

They don't play like that anymore

 

[travlerajm]

No better example of that was USO 2009 final.

I was editing my post to write the same thing while you were replying,

 

[Hitman]

I was editing my post to write the same thing while you were replying,

USO 2009 truly was the - What the heck was Federer thinking. Basically a bigger version of this rally in some ways.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Nadal hits two FHDTL shots, the second one requiring Federer to pull off an astonishing squash shot cross court...Nadal clearly feeling that ball up the line, and Federer decides to go inside out back into that shot, instead of trying to go inside in, as Rafa was leaning that way, with open court...

Then again maybe the whole thing was just instinctive brilliance from both, and they were reacting to each other rather than carefully planning what was needed.

Best rally the two played against each other though IMO.

Best rally of all time

 

[The Fedfather]

Awesome play from both. This one isn't that egregious in terms of Federer's decision-making. It looked like an easier shot for him to make and perhaps he didn't think Nadal would risk the DTL shot right then on a crucial point.

There are quite a few examples when Roger's choices were questionable to say the least, but here it was more about Rafa's brilliance, IMO.

 

[Hitman]

Best rally of all time

The point straight after the point I'm talking about? Yes, you are right.

 

[The_Order]

There are a few things to understand here.

1 - they have a split second to make a decision, so naturally it won't always be the right one
2 - Nadal hitting the fh utl is a very low percentage shot, particularly when the ball is coming in fast to his fh, it makes it incredibly difficult to hit with that precision whilst clearing the high part of the net, so likely to draw an error. This is even increased if Nadal gets wrong-footed which he was likely hoping for.
3 - had he gone inside-in then the court would've opened up for Nadal to crack a bh cc which he'd been doing all night and Fed would've either not got to it or returned with no vigor allowing Nadal to finish the point anyway

 

[Blahovic]

I've re-watched this match and Federer's decision-making was really not great. He was playing unbelievable tennis in terms of general shot-making, but a lot of the time he was playing into the strengths of Nadal. Nadal's ridiculous defence rattled him.

 

[The_Order]

I've re-watched this match and Federer's decision-making was really not great. He was playing unbelievable tennis in terms of general shot-making, but a lot of the time he was playing into the strengths of Nadal. Nadal's ridiculous defence rattled him.

This is one of the most underrated aspects of the younger Nadal's game that helped him rack up wins against peak Fed...

A lot is spoken about the Nadal fh into the Fed bh...

But this final and the 2012 AO sf are clear examples of Nadal's defence and ability to turn defence into offence being the catalyst to throwing Roger off his game. He feels like he needs to go for more and in so doing, draws more errors. When he doesn't pull the trigger, Nadal chases them down and sends them back with interest. It had to be such an uncomfortable feeling for Fed on court knowing this was what he was up against.

This is also why players like Hewitt and Agassi had big trouble against Fed.... Hewitt could chase down balls, but lacked the ability to do damage and turn defence into offence like Nadal could. With Agassi, his shot making was always there, but he lacked the movement.

 

[Blahovic]

This is one of the most underrated aspects of the younger Nadal's game that helped him rack up wins against peak Fed...

A lot is spoken about the Nadal fh into the Fed bh...

But this final and the 2012 AO sf are clear examples of Nadal's defence and ability to turn defence into offence being the catalyst to throwing Roger off his game. He feels like he needs to go for more and in so doing, draws more errors. When he doesn't pull the trigger, Nadal chases them down and sends them back with interest. It had to be such an uncomfortable feeling for Fed on court knowing this was what he was up against.

This is also why players like Hewitt and Agassi had big trouble against Fed.... Hewitt could chase down balls, but lacked the ability to do damage and turn defence into offence like Nadal could. With Agassi, his shot making was always there, but he lacked the movement.

The other problem against peak Nadal was that Federer was always giving up court position to attack, because he was so dependent on his forehand doing almost all the damage.

In some rallies, Federer ended up all the way in the doubles alley after hitting a forehand. This is especially important because Nadal doesn't mind redirecting pace crosscourt on his backhand.

 

[mike danny]

Fed's I/O couldn't penetrate that slow court and that coupled with the Road Runner on the other side of the net and there you go

The court wasn't yet painfully slow like in 2012

 

[MadariKatu]

What a match-up!!!! These guys have spoiled us, nothing compares

 

[Deleted member 762343]

Can't believe it was 13 years ago.

 

[TTMR]

It took Fed another six or so years to stop hitting to the Nadal forehand. In 2009 he was still hitting inside out approach shots and getting burned at the net over and over.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Nadal is epic AF

 

[D.Nalby12]

Federer could have done more on that backhand though. Instead of hitting deep in middle - he should have gone for CC backhand.

 

[aldeayeah]

Delete post

 

[aldeayeah]

Federer could have done more on that backhand though. Instead of hitting deep in middle - he should have gone for CC backhand.

Nadal's bunt/slice was unexpectedly deep.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Nadal and Fed summed up, disgusting to see that point cancelled out by servebotting.

Nadal's megalithic twattery has cancelled enough morally superior counterweights for this residual qualm to be but a scratch.

 

[TTMR]

Federer had the tennis IQ of a Kyrgios or Gulbis, his enormous talent just blunted the problems it would have created, until he was 29 or so. He still nearly won the AO 2009 and USO 2009 despite horrific strategy. The only player with a lower tennis IQ was Roddick. That's why it took Fed nearly two decades to adapt his game and racquet. Low tennis IQ + stubborness.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Nadal returning Federer's incredible instinctive shot clearly rattles Roger. Forced into making a conscious decision his confidence collapses and his next two shots are incredibly conservative and constricted, not a great combination. A rally that somehow captures the nature of their rivalry.

 

[The Green Mile]

Nothing wrong with that rally, last I/O forehand could have been a little more angled sure, but the play itself was fine.

 

[Hitman]

Federer had the tennis IQ of a Kyrgios or Gulbis, his enormous talent just blunted the problems it would have created, until he was 29 or so. He still nearly won the AO 2009 and USO 2009 despite horrific strategy. The only player with a lower tennis IQ was Roddick. That's why it took Fed nearly two decades to adapt his game and racquet. Low tennis IQ + stubborness.

So Federer is a untactical genius? LOL

 

[Ray Mercer]

This is one of the most underrated aspects of the younger Nadal's game that helped him rack up wins against peak Fed...

A lot is spoken about the Nadal fh into the Fed bh...

But this final and the 2012 AO sf are clear examples of Nadal's defence and ability to turn defence into offence being the catalyst to throwing Roger off his game. He feels like he needs to go for more and in so doing, draws more errors. When he doesn't pull the trigger, Nadal chases them down and sends them back with interest. It had to be such an uncomfortable feeling for Fed on court knowing this was what he was up against.

This is also why players like Hewitt and Agassi had big trouble against Fed.... Hewitt could chase down balls, but lacked the ability to do damage and turn defence into offence like Nadal could. With Agassi, his shot making was always there, but he lacked the movement.

It doesn’t help that the match is on a slow court. Put them on a fast court and his defence is irrelevant. Federer should be rewarded more for his shots. Federer absolutely should have gone inside in on the last forehand in that rally.

 

[The_Order]

It doesn’t help that the match is on a slow court. Put them on a fast court and his defence is irrelevant. Federer should be rewarded more for his shots. Federer absolutely should have gone inside in on the last forehand in that rally.

Spoken like someone who either hasn't played tennis on multiple surfaces or missed out on the Wimbledon 2008 final...

Grass is always going to play faster than HC...

Nadal won that one too... He also won Dubai 2006 with very little preparation vs PEAK ROGI.....

It's ok though, my Rafa 21 t-shirt just arrived....

 

[Ray Mercer]

Spoken like someone who either hasn't played tennis on multiple surfaces or missed out on the Wimbledon 2008 final...

Grass is always going to play faster than HC...

Nadal won that one too... He also won Dubai 2006 with very little preparation vs PEAK ROGI.....

It's ok though, my Rafa 21 t-shirt just arrived....

A moron like you would have a shirt like that. What happened at the WTF in 2006-2007?

 

[roysid]

Nadal hits two FHDTL shots, the second one requiring Federer to pull off an astonishing squash shot cross court...Nadal clearly feeling that ball up the line, and Federer decides to go inside out back into that shot, instead of trying to go inside in, as Rafa was leaning that way, with open court...

Then again maybe the whole thing was just instinctive brilliance from both, and they were reacting to each other rather than carefully planning what was needed.

Best rally the two played against each other though IMO.

Looks like Federer was trying to wrong foot nadal there. Player often hit to nadals backhand and he moves in that direction. In this case he didn't move and hence the ball was very much reachable. A good DTL would have won the point for Fed.

There were some good rallies innthe 3rd set at all important break points and Federer attacked nadals backhand even though the whole forehand courts were open

 

[RaulRamirez]

Anything can be second-guessed, but this - one of the greatest played points in the history of tennis - by both? Hitting shots on the fly? Fed's squash shot has gotta be one of the 2 or 3 best shots ever played in a losing point. I mean, he hit three "winners" on that point.

Now, I've got to rewatch Rafa's DTL winner off Verdasco's filthy slice. Goosebumps!

 

[Sir Weed]

Contact point for this shot was very high so an open stance was the best footwork option but made it impossible to change direction in this situation.

Fed's decision was correct and I guess Rafa knew that Rodge won't be able to change direction.

 

[The_Order]

A moron like you would have a shirt like that. What happened at the WTF in 2006-2007?

Hahaha you're just jelly you can't buy a Fed shirt that celebrates 21 slams

 

[Gt86]

Looking at that clip it is apparent why Nadal and Federer seem to be considered the two greatest ever. Of course its hard to get footage of Laver but that clip shows how unbelievable Nadal and Federer were in their day.

 

[junior74]

Nadal returning Federer's incredible instinctive shot clearly rattles Roger. Forced into making a conscious decision his confidence collapses and his next two shots are incredibly conservative and constricted, not a great combination. A rally that somehow captures the nature of their rivalry.

I wonder on what planet any shot in this rally is "incredibly conservative and constricted".

 

[NeutralFan]

Nadal's ability to pull off impossible winners like that makes his FH better than Fed ( imo)

 

[Thetouch]

I think Nadal or Federer were the first players I remember sliding on hardcourt, probably Nadal though. I don't rememer that ever happened in the 90s. That's a big plus otherwise they wouldn't be able to play such points at all. It's either because of better shoe material or surface changes or both.

 

[MadariKatu]

I wonder on what planet any shot in this rally is "incredibly conservative and constricted".

On the moon, but that's not a planet.

 

[ForumMember]

I think Nadal or Federer were the first players I remember sliding on hardcourt, probably Nadal though. I don't rememer that ever happened in the 90s. That's a big plus otherwise they wouldn't be able to play such points at all. It's either because of better shoe material or surface changes or both.

I think Djokovic does that better than both on hard courts. Not just better, I would say much better.

 

[RaulRamirez]

I think Djokovic does that better than both on hard courts. Not just better, I would say much better.

Definitely. I guess Roger and Rafa did it to some extent, but Novak is truly noted for it - defying the physics of human elasticity.