Is employee-monitoring software legal?

vokazu

Hall of Fame
I would certainly object strenuously to software that enabled an employer to see and/or hear you inside your home, but remote work is very widespread now and I think some monitoring is certainly reasonable. For instance, I used to work producing documents from dictation at home. Well, they knew how long it was taking me to do so in three or four different ways, through software monitoring. Things come up and one might have some days that are less productive than others, but if one is starting to habitually slack off, day after day, well hey, I think your goose should be cooked. Work should be work, no matter where you are.
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
What if the software can also see and listen to whatever you do in your house or bedroom? I find it as highly intrusive and a form of modernized slavery.

Fortune: Woman ordered to pay back employer for ‘time theft’ after computer software caught her slacking.

BanDsxf.png
 

jimmy8

Legend
My friend had a camera on her all day while she worked from home. She slacked off parts of the day, buy she worked in the evening and at night every day and on weekends.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
Well they are doing it for your convenience ( and theirs) and it’s safe and you will comply. We have the solution to all your fears.( Since we created the perception that there is a problem and you must act now before it’s too late)
 
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Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
I think it’s better to manage employees by judging productivity based on results and not on method, work style, or how many hours they sit at the desk.
Unfortunately they don’t like to use productivity as a measure any more in western societies because it might rank people based on merit and we can’t have that. We want all people to end up equal.
 
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Azure

G.O.A.T.
Absolutely, vehemently not.

I find it extremely hard not to check on TTW during work hours. Please don’t take away that right from me. Its my only de-stress.

Seriously though, get the job done at reasonable pace. Who cares about the rest? As long as one is not watching adult content etc during work hours, why is that serious concern?
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I think it’s better to manage employees by judging productivity based on results and not on method, work style, or how many hours they sit at the desk.
That doesn’t work with me. I am so efficient that I can do in half an hour what others can produce in one month. When bosses realize, they want to cut my pay. So I don’t allow cameras when I am actively posting in TTW in working hours.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
What if the software can also see and listen to whatever you do in your house or bedroom? I find it as highly intrusive and a form of modernized slavery.

Fortune: Woman ordered to pay back employer for ‘time theft’ after computer software caught her slacking.

If you have hair on your chest, you could try working shirtless. That may ward off anyone prying.
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
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The Architecture of Surveillance: The Panopticon Prison
Written by Andreea Cutieru
April 18, 2020

QPr6GbW.png

1791 design for the Panopticon by Jeremy Bentham, Samuel Bentham and the architect Willey Reveley. Plate II in 'Postscript-Part II' Works of Jeremy Bentham.


An expression of power and a symbol of surveillance, the panopticon is a notorious architectural concept intended as a disciplinary mechanism. Photographer Romain Veillon shares his images of the Panopticon-inspired prison in Autun, France.

Invented in the 18th century by English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham, the prison typology's core principle was monitoring the maximum number of prisoners with the minimum number of guards. The morphology consisted of a circular array of cells with a watchtower in the centre of the structure. The guards could thus observe every inmate at any time, unseen by the prisoners. The prisoners would be aware of the constant presence of authority, not knowing when they are being observed. As such, the prisoners would be self-disciplining, and few guards could ensure order over a large number of inmates. Described by Bentham as a "new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind", the panopticon, through the constant surveillance, would coerce the inmates into adjusting their own behaviour. Bentham envisioned this morphology to be applied to schools, hospitals and asylums, but he only detailed the design for the Panopticon prison.

In the 21st century, the idea of the panopticon was transformed by French philosopher Michel Foucault into a metaphor of social control that extends to all citizens. He argued that citizens internalize the authority represented by laws and institutions and that power derives from observation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory
 

Rago

Hall of Fame
I think it’s better to manage employees by judging productivity based on results and not on method, work style, or how many hours they sit at the desk.
The best employees are usually self-managing. They don't even need to be managed.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Employees who create a product should be judged by the product. Those who provide a service need to be at least partially judged by the impact of their process on clients and/or the public (potential clients).
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Employees who create a product should be judged by the product. Those who provide a service need to be at least partially judged by the impact of their process on clients and/or the public (potential clients).

Then they should be paid on a per product basis and not by the hour or year (salary).
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Then they should be paid on a per product basis and not by the hour or year (salary).
The risk of paying people per product is not being sure if he’s selling his next product to your competitors, if you mind about that.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Question for everyone here working for a company:
Have you thought what you are going to do when some corporate software finally reveals the average time you spend in this website during working hours?
I plan to sue TTW for being such a distraction if things with my company get rough.
 

Rago

Hall of Fame
They don’t even need to be paid?
Of course they need to be paid. The point is that they don't need their bosses to "manage" them.

If the employee gets an idea of the overall vision and what to do, the person is going to figure out the "how".


 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Of course they need to be paid. The point is that they don't need their bosses to "manage" them.

If the employee gets an idea of the overall vision and what to do, the person is going to figure out the "how".


Steve Jobs' mother of their daughter Lisa and Lisa herself had to work hard to earn money. I think they had better got a real job.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Then they should be paid on a per product basis and not by the hour or year (salary).
"Should"? I believe in the free market, not socialistic BS. Folks should get paid in the most advantaged way they can negotiate.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
If someone is selling that software openly, it should be legal.
In that case, can anybody recommend any, so we can prepare to manage it?
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
What if the software can also see and listen to whatever you do in your house or bedroom? I find it as highly intrusive and a form of modernized slavery.

Fortune: Woman ordered to pay back employer for ‘time theft’ after computer software caught her slacking.


Why GPS trackers for couriers? Why productivity trackers for warehouse workers?

If it's okay (or perhaps even necessary) for making sure blue collar workers stay productive, why isn't it okay for white collar workers/remote office workers?
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
What if the software can also see and listen to whatever you do in your house or bedroom? I find it as highly intrusive and a form of modernized slavery.
Oh my!! An expectation that you're expected to work during the hours you've contracted with your employer to work is now tantamount to slavery! As for your bedroom, I think you can use your imagination and find ways to prevent intrusion. Or just go back to the office.
 

Midaso240

Legend
Why GPS trackers for couriers? Why productivity trackers for warehouse workers?

If it's okay (or perhaps even necessary) for making sure blue collar workers stay productive, why isn't it okay for white collar workers/remote office workers?
Because white collar workers simply don't do that much work. Studies have shown the average office worker only does 15 hours of actual work a week. If they had to work every minute of every hour like blue collar workers, they'd run out of stuff to do by the end of Tuesday
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Because white collar workers simply don't do that much work. Studies have shown the average office worker only does 15 hours of actual work a week. If they had to work every minute of every hour like blue collar workers, they'd run out of stuff to do by the end of Tuesday

Some do, some don't. I know office workers that work through breaks and lunch, and work extra hours/on-call without extra pay. I also know many office workers that don't seem to do anything but type on discord or facebook all day (which has become even easier working from home). Presumably the software is there to discourage the latter.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
It’s very frustrating for so many office workers who have to make excruciating efforts to pretend they are always busy and doing actual work. Their favorite time slots to schedule meetings are at 8:00 PM or 06:00 AM.
They brag that they work the longest hours one can imagine, and are very fond of meetings and presentations.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I think it’s better to manage employees by judging productivity based on results and not on method, work style, or how many hours they sit at the desk.

Exactly. It is easy for a manager to check if the work is being done in time. Nowadays, most work is in the form of "tasks" which are tracked on some software tool. Apart from that, there are meetings in which the progress is evaluated. If a company cannot figure out from these tools how much work a person is doing, that means the management is lousy and paranoid.
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
A world in which your boss spies on your brainwaves? That future is near
At Davos, a futurist spoke in glowing terms about ‘brain transparency’ – and downplayed the obvious dystopian risks.
Hamilton Nolan
Thu 9 Feb 2023

Excerpts:

Nita Farahany, a Duke University professor and futurist, gave a presentation at Davos about neurotechnology that is creating “brain transparency”, something I previously associated more with a bullet to the head. The new technologies, which Farahany says are being deployed in workplaces around the world, may prove to be nearly as destructive. They include a variety of wearable sensors that read the brain’s electrical impulses and can show how fatigued you are, whether you’re focused on the task at hand or if your attention is wandering. According to Farahany, thousands of companies have hooked workers ranging from train drivers to miners up to these devices already, in the name of workplace safety. But what we are really discussing is workplace surveillance.


Farahany paints a picture of a near future in which every office worker could be fitted with a small wearable that would constantly record brain activity, creating an omnipotent record of your thoughts, attention and energy that the boss could study at leisure. No longer would it be enough to look like you’re working hard: your own brainwaves could reveal that you were slacking off.

Farahany acknowledges that there could be drawbacks here: “Done poorly, it could become the most oppressive technology we’ve ever introduced on a wide scale.”

One need not be a futurist to divine how this will go. “Bossware” is common today, in the form of less flashy but equally invasive technologies of all sorts: what workers type, what they look at, how long they are “inactive” on their keyboards, how they drive, where they stop, when they apply the brakes, how direct the route they take is. A Coworker.org database of bossware found that more than 550 products are already in use in workplaces. Everywhere you look, workers are being tracked, watched, measured, scored, analyzed and penalized by software, human overseers and artificial intelligence, with the aim of wringing every last cent’s worth of productivity out of the flawed and fragile flesh-and-blood units of labor who must, regrettably, be used as employees until the robots get a little bit more manual dexterity. The crowning insult of it all is that in most cases, the people enduring the surveillance are paid much less than those who are inflicting it.

What companies never discuss is the fact that, once we allow them to claim this time and space and data as theirs, they will never, ever want to cede it back to us again.

At Davos, Farahany said that neurotechnology in the workplace “has a dystopian possibility”. But that is not stating the case strongly enough. Absent stringent regulation, it has a dystopian certainty. Waiting to see how this all turns out is a very dangerous idea. The biggest mistake you can make with dystopias is assuming that they never become real.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/09/boss-spies-brainwaves-dystopian-future
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
Machines can read your brain. There’s little that can stop them.
Technology is giving access to the inner workings of the brain, and policymakers are scrambling to regulate it.
BY MELISSA HEIKKILÄ
AUGUST 31, 2021


EsqoBHP.png

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market | Ezequiel Becerra/AFP via Getty Images

Excerpts:


In 2019, Rafael Yuste successfully implanted images directly into the brains of mice and controlled their behavior. Now, the neuroscientist warns that there is little that can prevent humans from being next.

If used responsibly, neurotechnology — in which machines interact directly with human neurons — can be used to understand and cure stubborn illnesses like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, and assist with the development of prosthetic limbs and speech therapy.

But if left unregulated, neurotechnology could also lead to the worst corporate and state excesses, including discriminatory policing and privacy violations, leaving our minds as vulnerable to surveillance as our communications.

Now a group of neuroscientists, philosophers, lawyers, human rights activists and policymakers are racing to protect that last frontier of privacy — the brain.

They are not seeking a ban. Instead, campaigners like Yuste, who runs the Neurorights initiative at Columbia University, call for a set of principles that guarantee citizens' rights to their thoughts, and protection from any intruders, while taking advantage of any potential health benefits.

But they see plenty of reason to be alarmed about certain applications of neurotechnology, especially as it attracts the attention of militaries, governments and technology companies.

China and the U.S. are both leading research into artificial intelligence and neuroscience. The U.S. Defense department is developing technology that could be used to tweak memories.

It's not just scientists; firms, including major players like Facebook and Elon Musk's Neuralink are making advances too.

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market. Kernel, an American company, has developed a headset for the consumer market that can record brain activity in real time. Facebook funded a project to create a brain-computer interface that would allow users to communicate without speaking. (They pulled out this summer.) Neuralink is working on brain implants, and in April 2021 released a video of a monkey playing a game with its mind using the company’s implanted chip.

“The problem is what these tools can be used for,” he said. There are some scary examples: Researchers have used brain scans to predict the likelihood of criminals reoffending, and Chinese employers have monitored employees' brainwaves to read their emotions. Scientists have also managed to subliminally probe for personal information using consumer devices.

“We have on the table the possibility of a hybrid human that will change who we are as a species, and that's something that's very serious. This is existential,” he continued. Whether this is a change for good or bad, Yuste argues now is the time to decide.

Inception
The neurotechnology of today cannot decode thoughts or emotions. But with artificial intelligence, that might not be necessary. Powerful machine learning systems could make correlations between brain activity and external circumstances.

“In order to raise privacy challenges it’s sufficient that you have an AI that is powerful enough to identify patterns and establish correlative associations between certain patterns of data, and certain mental states,” said Marcello Ienca, a bioethicist at ETH Zurich.

Researchers have already managed to use a machine learning system to infer credit card digits from a person’s brain activity.

“[W]hen, for example, lie detection or the detection of memory appears accurate enough according to the science, why would the public prosecutor say no to such kind of technology?” said Sjors Ligthart, who studies the legal implications of coercive brain reading at Tilburg University.

With brain implants in particular, experts say it's unclear whether thoughts would be induced, or originate from the brain, which poses questions over accountability. “You cannot discern which tasks are being conducted by yourself and which thoughts are being accomplished by the AI, simply because the AI is becoming the mediator of your own mind,” Ienca said.

Where is my mind?
People have never needed to assert the authority of the individual over the thoughts they carry, but neurotechnology is prompting policymakers to do just that.

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market. Kernel, an American company, has developed a headset for the consumer market that can record brain activity in real time. Facebook funded a project to create a brain-computer interface that would allow users to communicate without speaking. (They pulled out this summer.) Neuralink is working on brain implants, and in April 2021 released a video of a monkey playing a game with its mind using the company’s implanted chip.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mac...-neuroscience-privacy-neurorights-protection/
 

Purestriker

Legend
Machines can read your brain. There’s little that can stop them.
Technology is giving access to the inner workings of the brain, and policymakers are scrambling to regulate it.
BY MELISSA HEIKKILÄ
AUGUST 31, 2021


EsqoBHP.png

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market | Ezequiel Becerra/AFP via Getty Images

Excerpts:


In 2019, Rafael Yuste successfully implanted images directly into the brains of mice and controlled their behavior. Now, the neuroscientist warns that there is little that can prevent humans from being next.

If used responsibly, neurotechnology — in which machines interact directly with human neurons — can be used to understand and cure stubborn illnesses like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, and assist with the development of prosthetic limbs and speech therapy.

But if left unregulated, neurotechnology could also lead to the worst corporate and state excesses, including discriminatory policing and privacy violations, leaving our minds as vulnerable to surveillance as our communications.

Now a group of neuroscientists, philosophers, lawyers, human rights activists and policymakers are racing to protect that last frontier of privacy — the brain.

They are not seeking a ban. Instead, campaigners like Yuste, who runs the Neurorights initiative at Columbia University, call for a set of principles that guarantee citizens' rights to their thoughts, and protection from any intruders, while taking advantage of any potential health benefits.

But they see plenty of reason to be alarmed about certain applications of neurotechnology, especially as it attracts the attention of militaries, governments and technology companies.

China and the U.S. are both leading research into artificial intelligence and neuroscience. The U.S. Defense department is developing technology that could be used to tweak memories.

It's not just scientists; firms, including major players like Facebook and Elon Musk's Neuralink are making advances too.

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market. Kernel, an American company, has developed a headset for the consumer market that can record brain activity in real time. Facebook funded a project to create a brain-computer interface that would allow users to communicate without speaking. (They pulled out this summer.) Neuralink is working on brain implants, and in April 2021 released a video of a monkey playing a game with its mind using the company’s implanted chip.

“The problem is what these tools can be used for,” he said. There are some scary examples: Researchers have used brain scans to predict the likelihood of criminals reoffending, and Chinese employers have monitored employees' brainwaves to read their emotions. Scientists have also managed to subliminally probe for personal information using consumer devices.

“We have on the table the possibility of a hybrid human that will change who we are as a species, and that's something that's very serious. This is existential,” he continued. Whether this is a change for good or bad, Yuste argues now is the time to decide.

Inception
The neurotechnology of today cannot decode thoughts or emotions. But with artificial intelligence, that might not be necessary. Powerful machine learning systems could make correlations between brain activity and external circumstances.

“In order to raise privacy challenges it’s sufficient that you have an AI that is powerful enough to identify patterns and establish correlative associations between certain patterns of data, and certain mental states,” said Marcello Ienca, a bioethicist at ETH Zurich.

Researchers have already managed to use a machine learning system to infer credit card digits from a person’s brain activity.

“[W]hen, for example, lie detection or the detection of memory appears accurate enough according to the science, why would the public prosecutor say no to such kind of technology?” said Sjors Ligthart, who studies the legal implications of coercive brain reading at Tilburg University.

With brain implants in particular, experts say it's unclear whether thoughts would be induced, or originate from the brain, which poses questions over accountability. “You cannot discern which tasks are being conducted by yourself and which thoughts are being accomplished by the AI, simply because the AI is becoming the mediator of your own mind,” Ienca said.

Where is my mind?
People have never needed to assert the authority of the individual over the thoughts they carry, but neurotechnology is prompting policymakers to do just that.

Neurotech wearables are now entering the market. Kernel, an American company, has developed a headset for the consumer market that can record brain activity in real time. Facebook funded a project to create a brain-computer interface that would allow users to communicate without speaking. (They pulled out this summer.) Neuralink is working on brain implants, and in April 2021 released a video of a monkey playing a game with its mind using the company’s implanted chip.
https://www.politico.eu/article/mac...-neuroscience-privacy-neurorights-protection/
Lol.
 
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