Is Nadal currently better on grass than clay??

[clayman2000]

No doubt about it Nadal will go down as the King of Clay, with his 6 French Open titles, 7 Monte Carlo wins, and domination in the clay season.

However, as Nadal's game has evolved, he has become increasingly dominant on grass. He hasnt lost at SW19 since 2007, and while he has lost twice at Queens since then, its important to remember that those losses came the week after Rafa won the Roland Garros title.

Here is my reasoning.

1. The Nadal backhand becomes a weapon. Over the past 3 years Nadal has a tendency to get in trouble on clay by floating his BH back, and as a result he increasingly chips it back. On grass however, Nadal is able to hit through the court a lot easier, and if his opponent loops a forhand cross court at an angle, they usually see it go past them at a crazier angle

2. Nadal's serves become a lot better, and it allows him to S&V on a few points. Mcenroe is right about Nadal's volleys... they are the best of the big four, and his speed allows him to close of the net so fast.

3. Nadal loves playing on the grass. On other surfaces he can occasionally become to passive, but its hard to recall a game on grass when he was unnecessarily passive. Its like the second he hits grass his goal is to hit a forhand winner in every rally.

If Nadal is not better on grass than on clay, it is certainly close.

 

[decades]

he loves soft surfaces that don't give uniform bounces.

 

[got spin?]

No, He has always been a superb clay courter and that will never change.

 

[nikdom]

Is Nadal currently better on grass than clay??

Is there much of a difference?

 

[kishnabe]

He is playing on Grass this year better than he was on Clay this year and last year on Grass.

Though his claycourting last year was better than this year.


I would say that he is just heating up right now. I do agree he is a better grasscourter than a clay courter because he so much more aggresive. Watching him on clay is extremely boring and annoying. Though on Grass....her would play inside the court more and hit ridculous winners.

His winner to ue ratio is insane compared to how he plays on other surfaces.

 

[Xemi666]

I think so, this year he has played better at Wimbly than at RG, strange.

 

[Manus Domini]

No doubt about it Nadal will go down as the King of Clay, with his 6 French Open titles, 7 Monte Carlo wins, and domination in the clay season.

As opposed to what on grass?

However, as Nadal's game has evolved, he has become increasingly dominant on grass. He hasnt lost at SW19 since 2007, and while he has lost twice at Queens since then, its important to remember that those losses came the week after Rafa won the Roland Garros title.

Err, bud, Nadal lost how many times on clay out of how many matches?

1. The Nadal backhand becomes a weapon. Over the past 3 years Nadal has a tendency to get in trouble on clay by floating his BH back, and as a result he increasingly chips it back. On grass however, Nadal is able to hit through the court a lot easier, and if his opponent loops a forhand cross court at an angle, they usually see it go past them at a crazier angle

Is it possibly that he just doesn't have to hit it that hard on clay to win the rally, but he does on grass?

2. Nadal's serves become a lot better, and it allows him to S&V on a few points. Mcenroe is right about Nadal's volleys... they are the best of the big four, and his speed allows him to close of the net so fast.

Fed's volleys are far better. His might be second best of the top 4, but they aren't as good as the Maestro's.

3. Nadal loves playing on the grass. On other surfaces he can occasionally become to passive, but its hard to recall a game on grass when he was unnecessarily passive. Its like the second he hits grass his goal is to hit a forhand winner in every rally.

Maybe he realizes 5 straight weeks of grinding matches really is bad for his knees?

If Nadal is not better on grass than on clay, it is certainly close.

Err, no.

 

[crazyups]

His slice is also more effective since it stays lower. He has been using it quite a bit at Wimbledon.

 

[clayman2000]

As opposed to what on grass?

Can you read.... I said currently

Err, bud, Nadal lost how many times on clay out of how many matches?

Once again, I said at the moment, not overall

Is it possibly that he just doesn't have to hit it that hard on clay to win the rally, but he does on grass?

Did you watch his matches against Djokovic.... his BH's were getting exposed so bad.

Fed's volleys are far better. His might be second best of the top 4, but they aren't as good as the Maestro's.

Fed has more style, but he misses so many easy volleys. That is fact. Same cannot be said for Rafa

Maybe he realizes 5 straight weeks of grinding matches really is bad for his knees?

Ya and just turning on agressive play is easy. I mean anyone can do it...

Err, no.


Give me a logical point why

 

[Cesc Fabregas]

He can flaten out his cc backhand on grass and his slice is a good shot on grass.

 

[Oceansize]

Not sure if Nadal is better on grass than clay, but i think the gap between him and all players not named Federer is bigger on grass than clay.

 

[aldeayeah]

He's far more vulnerable on grass, so no.

The Queen's defeat against Tsonga wouldn't have happened on clay.

 

[cp37070]

Good question. I don't see him ever being as dominant on grass as clay but he could end up being better on grass than clay for the rest of his career. Based on form this year someone not knowing his history could think clay was his worst surface and grass his best. He even looked better on hardcourts than he did on clay. I think with the evolution of his game to suit other surfaces and making his playing style easier, he's losing the things that made him great on clay. That and the pressure during clay season makes playing on clay less enjoyable that it was before.

 

[Manus Domini]

Can you read.... I said currently

Oh, did not catch that word. Disregard that...

Did you watch his matches against Djokovic.... his BH's were getting exposed so bad.

Novak is to Nadal as Nadal is to Federer.

Fed has more style, but he misses so many easy volleys. That is fact. Same cannot be said for Rafa

I guess the fact that Fed approaches the net more has nothing to do with lower percentages?

Say Fed approaches the net 43 times in a match. In the same match, Nadal approaches 14. Nadal wins 11 of his net approaches, 78.5%. Federer wins 31 of his 43 approaches, 72%. Is Nadal really the better volleyer there?

Ya and just turning on agressive play is easy. I mean anyone can do it...

Err, no.


Give me a logical point why

Aside from the volleying point, I concede.

 

[NadalAgassi]

I hope he is. I would like to see his dominance of clay fade as it did this year, as long as he can still won some Frenchs, and his dominance on grass, and to a lesser degree hard, continue to grow. I would like to see his record end up as balanced as possible.

He has nothing to prove on clay. He is the clay court GOAT now already. Anything extra is just padding it.

 

[Manus Domini]

I hope he is. I would like to see his dominance of clay fade as it did this year, as long as he can still won some Frenchs, and his dominance on grass, and to a lesser degree hard, continue to grow. I would like to see his record end up as balanced as possible.

He has nothing to prove on clay. He is the clay court GOAT now already. Anything extra is just padding it.

I beg to differ. He isn't the greatest CC of all time.

 

[Hood_Man]

I think he's better on grass. He can get more cheap points on his serve for example, and to be honest has looked overall less vulnerable than he did at the French.

Anyone who saw the match he played against Pablo Andujar in Paris will remember how beatable he looked in that third set. He likely would have stomped on Andujar's chances in the 4th, but thanks to some of the worst brain cramping I've seen outside of a Verdasco match, we'll never know for certain.

 

[Bud]

If he takes home the title on Sunday, there's no doubt in my mind that his GC game is now better than his CC game.

Nadal looked a bit fish out of water this year on clay (relatively speaking).

 

[bolo]

The field is still closer to him on grass, so no.

But 5 straight wimbledon finals? are you kidding me?

 

[BULLZ1LLA]

(Rafa is at his best when he's moving forward. He's great at the net [volley in today's Murray match was best volley anyone has produced this year]. On clay however he stay back, so his tennis looks less impressive. Not sure which he's more unbeatable on, clay or grass, but his matches on grass look more 'impressive')

 

[mcenroefan]

I think he's playing better at Wimby than he did at RG. Of course, that might be b/c he knows the Wimby balls, whereas at RG there were new balls. I think you get fewer flyers with these balls which probably suits Nadal...he can hit out with more confidence. I also think his movement on grass is just as good as his movement on clay at this point.

Regarding his volleying, I've thought for several years that Nadal has some of the best instincts regarding when to get to net and, b/c of his foot speed, some of the best closing speed on net. Thus, I think he positions himself very well to get easier volleys. I don't think he has the best hands in the game or pure volleying technique but it's good enough when you have his kind of speed and instincts. BTW, I don't think anyone in this generation can compare with the volleying technique of players like Edberg. In sum, NAdal seems very effective in his appearences at net.

 

[ibbi]

He's far more vulnerable on grass, so no.

The Queen's defeat against Tsonga wouldn't have happened on clay.

He plays Queens the week after Roland Garros. He pushed himself all the way there once, but otherwise he hardly gives it his all in terms of discipline. Put an extra week in there between Paris and London and I'm sure things would come out very different.

 

[aldeayeah]

He plays Queens the week after Roland Garros. He pushed himself all the way there once, but otherwise he hardly gives it his all in terms of discipline. Put an extra week in there between Paris and London and I'm sure things would come out very different.

I'm just pointing out the fact that he loses proportionally more games, sets and matches on grass. This year as well.

 

[tlm]

I would have never believed that this could be the case, but to me right now rafa is definitely better on the grass this year than he is on clay.

 

[bolo]

Nadal also answers the question in his post-match interview.

 

[SStrikerR]

I'm just pointing out the fact that he loses proportionally more games, sets and matches on grass. This year as well.

That's because the field is better on grass than clay. That doesn't reflect Rafa's ability at all.

 

[winstonplum]

Excellent thread. When I sat down I was going to start a thread with the same idea, except I wouldn't have asked it as a question, it's clearly a statement. He is much better in this Wimby than he was during the entire cc season, including FO. For one thing, he's just hitting the ball a lot harder. He cracked more ccbh winners in the Murray match than he did in the entire FO. He's also stepping in and a smacking his iof, which is beautiful. He looks really sharp right now. I don't think he would have had a chance against Djok in the FO had Fed not taken care of him. I think Nadal has a very good chance on Sunday.

 

[TennisFan3]

I think the Nadal-Delpo R4 Wimbledon match was probably Nadal's best level this season - even though it lasted only for that match

 

[Mustard]

I think the Nadal-Delpo R4 Wimbledon match was probably Nadal's best level this season - even though it lasted only for that match

I think he was even better against Muller. That match was played at an insanely high standard in the first two sets.

 

[Bartelby]

The reality is that all the European players do much better on grass, as although it may be faster and lower bouncing and points shorter, its still a baseline game that they play at Wimbledon.

 

[TennisFan3]

I think he was even better against Muller. That match was played at an insanely high standard in the first two sets.

True, I agree. Although there were hardly any rallies in that match, where as there were plenty in the Delpo match. Against Delpo, I counted like close to 10 forehand winners above 90 mph. Nadal's i/o forehand and DTL forehands were ridiculous. He was just hitting the ball without any reservation whatsoever.

That is the level he'll need in the final, although I have no idea why he started playing safe in QF/SF...

 

[tlm]

Excellent thread. When I sat down I was going to start a thread with the same idea, except I wouldn't have asked it as a question, it's clearly a statement. He is much better in this Wimby than he was during the entire cc season, including FO. For one thing, he's just hitting the ball a lot harder. He cracked more ccbh winners in the Murray match than he did in the entire FO. He's also stepping in and a smacking his iof, which is beautiful. He looks really sharp right now. I don't think he would have had a chance against Djok in the FO had Fed not taken care of him. I think Nadal has a very good chance on Sunday.

This post is right on the money, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Mustard]

That is the level he'll need in the final, although I have no idea why he started playing safe in QF/SF...

A loss of intensity in the third set against Fish, and Murray played very well for a set and a bit, going for his shots. Nadal played well in those last few sets against Murray, although Murray's negative body language made it easier for Nadal.

 

[TennisFan3]

A loss of intensity in the third set against Fish, and Murray played very well for a set and a bit, going for his shots. Nadal played well in those last few sets against Murray, although Murray's negative body language made it easier for Nadal.

I'm guessing Nadal couldn't really show his best tennis against Murray, simply because the latter played so bad in set 2 and set 3.

I mean Murray made 39 UFEs (that's probably 70 UFEs in normal terms, given how generous Wimbledon is with them). Every time something interesting was about to happen, Murray would net a forehand/backhand..

 

[NadalAgassi]

I beg to differ. He isn't the greatest CC of all time.

And you can think that if you want but fact is after RG the vast majority of people now consider him the greatest clay courter of all time. And if Nadal isnt the greatest clay courter of all time then Federer must not even be in the top 10 considering the enormous chasm between the two on clay.

 

[Murrayfan31]

Rafa is and will always be a claycourt specialist. They just happen to make grass very similar to clay now with the clay behind the baseline and heavy balls.

 

[Clay lover]

Rafa is and will always be a claycourt specialist. They just happen to make grass very similar to clay now with the clay behind the baseline and heavy balls.

Whereas Murray is a nocourt specialist. I get your point. Fluke slams on blue and green clay- Nadal:4 Murray:0

 

[Murrayfan31]

Whereas Murray is a nocourt specialist. I get your point. Fluke slams on blue and green clay- Nadal:4 Murray:0

Murray beat Nadal at the US Open and the Australian Open. Courts that don't suit moonballing.

 

[fednad]

Is Nadal currently better on grass than clay??

The difference between clay and grass now is color.
And he is a top class clay court player.

 

[Sentinel]

By the second week, the grass becomes clay, acco to Nadal.

 

[Heracles]

That's actually the second time in a row that Nadal is playing better tennis at Wimbledon than at Roland Garros. Last year it was already the case.

This is for one part at least a confidence related event I think. The last two years Nadal had little confidence going to Roland Garros. It was very important in 2010 to come back from his 2009 year and to win a slam again. This year he had a bad clay season toward the end and was playing well under his level.

After winning Roland Garros, he is now free mentally and can play to conquer the world.

 

[IvanisevicServe]

Nah. He's still capable of running through RG without dropping a set, despite poor form by his standards this year.

At Wimbledon, guys can get sets off him. But Wimbledon truly is green clay now, so he's right at home and unlikely to lose. And when you have to take 3 sets off him, and he's so difficult to break...even if you serve well, the odds are stacked against you in the tie break (s).

 

[LeoMOMO]

Is Nadal currently better on grass than clay??


I think so!
And obviously I'm enjoying his play at this Wimbledon than on some clay courts in this year.

 

[Manus Domini]

And you can think that if you want but fact is after RG the vast majority of people now consider him the greatest clay courter of all time. And if Nadal isnt the greatest clay courter of all time then Federer must not even be in the top 10 considering the enormous chasm between the two on clay.

Really? I'd have Federer somewhere in the top ten, though not very high up in it. Nadal is like 3/4 imho, Federer like 8/9