Is this toss legal?

[Dartagnan64]

So i'm playing in a Calcutta Doubles event and at one point in yesterdays match I'm receiving serve. The server tosses the ball up. Looks like a bad toss. He reaches up as if to grab the ball but then at the last second decides to hit it. Meanwhile I'm resetting my position already thinking he is going to just re-toss. So i'm caught flat footed as the ball whizzes out wide for an ace.

It seems you shouldn't be able to put your hand up again after you've tossed it and feign grabbing the ball but I can't see any rule against it. I was going to ask him after if that was a planned fake or just a last second change of mind. I suspect it was the latter given he never did anything like that again.

Anyway, it was very weird to say the least.

 

[tennis tom]

I must ad that to my repertoire, could have used it last night at the mx'er, had to resort to a few underhanders to level the playing field.

Hard to tell what it looks like, can you reproduce it in a video?--sound's like a must add to the rec serve mix.

 

[MathGeek]

My overriding principle is that anything not explicitly prohibited is allowed.

A "fake out" cannot be considered inherently unfair simply because it worked.

I am reminded of the fake fair catch a week or so ago in a football game, and also the various fake spiking the ball (short incomplete passes to stop the clock) to make the defenses go limp.

My son practices a move where he tosses, then fails to hit it near the apex but hits it with an underhand stroke below his knees (on the fly). Sporting? Dunno. Effective? Possibly, if one can figure out how to get a decent serve out of it.

 

[Gyswandir]

You guys should check out @MarinaHighTennis video against Djokovic, where he makes a trick serve. Djoker was completely caught by surprise

 

[Dartagnan64]

I guess I could have called a foot fault for wandering 3 steps back on this errant toss. I think that's the key to the fake out in this case. The toss was so obviously bad, there was no reason to believe he'd do anything but catch it and re-toss. I think if you double pumped the tossing arm on a good toss, no one would buy it.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

i say that's legal.
so did you buy yourself in the calcutta?

 

[kevrol]

Nothing to show it as being illegal.

 

[Dartagnan64]

i say that's legal.
so did you buy yourself in the calcutta?

I have a quarter share of my team. Bidding went too high on my team to be good value. I know how good I am lol. That being said we are currently leading in our Box and have played well (4-1-1 record).

 

[atatu]

Related question, last weekend was watching guy with one arm who placed the ball on the strings then "tossed" it that way, pretty amazing this guy was over 55 and playing high level dubs. I'm sure no one would ever questions the legality of the toss but I was curious what the rule is on that.

 

[kevrol]

Related question, last weekend was watching guy with one arm who placed the ball on the strings then "tossed" it that way, pretty amazing this guy was over 55 and playing high level dubs. I'm sure no one would ever questions the legality of the toss but I was curious what the rule is on that.

Don't have the rule infront of me but that's perfectly legal. Disabilities that prevent toss specifically allow this.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I don't understand how you could possibly have been faked out. And how much power could he have possibly put on the serve while falling three steps backward.

Just can't conjure up a visual image . . .

 

[kylebarendrick]

I guess I could have called a foot fault for wandering 3 steps back on this errant toss. I think that's the key to the fake out in this case. The toss was so obviously bad, there was no reason to believe he'd do anything but catch it and re-toss. I think if you double pumped the tossing arm on a good toss, no one would buy it.

That might be your best bet:

During the service motion, the server shall not:
a. Change position by walking or running, although slight movements of the feet
are permitted; or​

 

[Dartagnan64]

I don't understand how you could possibly have been faked out. And how much power could he have possibly put on the serve while falling three steps backward.

Just can't conjure up a visual image . . .

Picture someone 6'6". Puts his hand up a second time, then suddenly swats at the ball. The Ace was not because of power but because he hit the out wide line while I was totally flat footed. I think he decided to hit it because the 3 shuffle steps back got him under the ball reasonably well enough. I've seen plenty of guys toss errantly like that and decide to hit it, but they don't usually start putting their tossing hand back up.

 

[winchestervatennis]

Related question, last weekend was watching guy with one arm who placed the ball on the strings then "tossed" it that way, pretty amazing this guy was over 55 and playing high level dubs. I'm sure no one would ever questions the legality of the toss but I was curious what the rule is on that.

@kevrol is correct

 

[dsp9753]

My overriding principle is that anything not explicitly prohibited is allowed.

A "fake out" cannot be considered inherently unfair simply because it worked.

I am reminded of the fake fair catch a week or so ago in a football game, and also the various fake spiking the ball (short incomplete passes to stop the clock) to make the defenses go limp.

My son practices a move where he tosses, then fails to hit it near the apex but hits it with an underhand stroke below his knees (on the fly). Sporting? Dunno. Effective? Possibly, if one can figure out how to get a decent serve out of it.

I was under the impression that while serving, swinging and missing the ball is considered a fault. For example, you toss then whiff completely, it is a fault. You do not get a second chance to hit it in. I believe your son's "trick" serve falls under this category.

 

[dsp9753]

Double post

 

[WhiteOut]

So i'm playing in a Calcutta Doubles event and at one point in yesterdays match I'm receiving serve. The server tosses the ball up. Looks like a bad toss. He reaches up as if to grab the ball but then at the last second decides to hit it. Meanwhile I'm resetting my position already thinking he is going to just re-toss. So i'm caught flat footed as the ball whizzes out wide for an ace.

It seems you shouldn't be able to put your hand up again after you've tossed it and feign grabbing the ball but I can't see any rule against it. I was going to ask him after if that was a planned fake or just a last second change of mind. I suspect it was the latter given he never did anything like that again.

Anyway, it was very weird to say the least.

yes legal, nothing to call. more importantly, i've never heard of a calcutta dubs tourney and looked it up. looks like a lot of fun...wish my club would do something like this. I'll have to see if i can get something going...

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I was under the impression that while serving, swinging and missing the ball is considered a fault. For example, you toss then whiff completely, it is a fault. You do not get a second chance to hit it in. I believe your son's "trick" serve falls under this category.

Only on the serve or on other shots too?

 

[chikoo]

I guess I could have called a foot fault for wandering 3 steps back on this errant toss. I think that's the key to the fake out in this case. The toss was so obviously bad, there was no reason to believe he'd do anything but catch it and re-toss. I think if you double pumped the tossing arm on a good toss, no one would buy it.

lesson learnt. The ball is in play until it is not.

 

[gmatheis]

I guess I could have called a foot fault for wandering 3 steps back on this errant toss. I think that's the key to the fake out in this case. The toss was so obviously bad, there was no reason to believe he'd do anything but catch it and re-toss. I think if you double pumped the tossing arm on a good toss, no one would buy it.

If he took 3 steps then it is an illegal serve … Only supposed to move 1 foot.

 

[MathGeek]

Only on the serve or on other shots too?

I probably missed 5-10 shots completely in my last MxD match. Good thing my wife had my back. Probably much more common in doubles. Did touch one, which I called on myself, per the rules.

 

[TenS_Ace]

I'm assuming he didn't have a very good 2HBH

 

[TenS_Ace]

I'm assuming he didn't have a very good 2HBH

 

[TenS_Ace]

I'm assuming he didn't have a very good 2HBH

 

[GeoffHYL]

I probably missed 5-10 shots completely in my last MxD match. Good thing my wife had my back. Probably much more common in doubles. Did touch one, which I called on myself, per the rules.

I've had this happen too, low lob that I thought I could hit, but was just out of reach so I whiff it, partner has to cover. I can remember a few times playing singles when I was younger whiffing on an overhead, then recovering after the ball bounced and hitting a groundstroke on it.

 

[Dartagnan64]

lesson learnt. The ball is in play until it is not.

Indeed.

This falls into the category of "Fool me once..." Not going to get me a second time.

 

[Dartagnan64]

If he took 3 steps then it is an illegal serve … Only supposed to move 1 foot.

Admittedly the foot faulting in this doubles tourney has been abysmal (including my own partner). So I'm not going to start calling it and risk them calling my partner out. But it seems at least one partner out of every team is a notorious foot faulter. Really sad.

 

[ShaunS]

YouTube recommended a video for me last night. It's an explanation of what a 4.0 rated player should do, and it has some guy doing those shots.

I found it hilariously accurate that he foot faults on all three of his serves.

Serving starts at 1:00. I tried direct link, but the board turns it into a player that ignores the time link.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I have a quarter share of my team. Bidding went too high on my team to be good value. I know how good I am lol. That being said we are currently leading in our Box and have played well (4-1-1 record).

that's impressive, that others were buying you too... yeah, if you're the favorite, investing in yourself can have a poor ROI

 

[heninfan99]

YouTube recommended a video for me last night. It's an explanation of what a 4.0 rated player should do, and it has some guy doing those shots.

I found it hilariously accurate that he foot faults on all three of his serves.

Serving starts at 1:00. I tried direct link, but the board turns it into a player that ignores the time link.

Sureshs would begal that guy in the video.

 

[Dartagnan64]

that's impressive, that others were buying you too... yeah, if you're the favorite, investing in yourself can have a poor ROI

By bidding outcome, we were the favorite but that had more to do with being the last team up for bid and the amount of alcohol consumed by that point. Loosened the purse strings considerably . I would say we are about the 5th or 6th best team in the pool of 14 teams.

In the end, our box had a 3 way tie for the top spot, so it'll come down to tiebreakers where the seeding goes for quarterfinals.

 

[pc1]

I read stuff by older top pro players all the time and they often point out how important disguise is in a shot. I see no reason why that motion cannot be used on the serve.