Jumping forehand versus staying grounded

[Jst21121]

So I’ve always had a jumping forehand. I played against a better player then me today- and he said just stop. Only the pros/college level players can jump and explode into their forehand as they practice day in and day out.

Instead he told me to stay put, lean into the ball and don’t jump.

What ended up happening is:

1) I had more control
2) I had more power
3) I conserved more energy

some days when I jump into my forehands I have a great explosive shot- but majority of the time it just ends up being a high spin ball with no real power behind it.

so I know all the pros are jumping around like crazy, is this just a technique that requires excellent fundamentals and physical ability before a rec player attempts it?

I’m sorta sad that my jumping forehand game is coming to and end, but I’m excited to see a steady planted forehand making more winners.

for reference I play in the 3.5-4 level. No real aspiration to go higher then that.

 

[Booger]

Yeah don't try to be Air Nishikori. Actually, I think even he stopped jumping around so much later in his career.

 

[optic yellow]

Yeah but jumping into forehands can be fun so there is still value to them.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Would have to see it.

Depends when you are leaving your feet. The only reason (other than a Nick Kyrgios show off shot) is to free up the swing. When you unhinge from the ground, you are not in danger of decelerating around contact due to limiting your rotation.
There will be others that contend you get extra power pushing off the ground via the legs, but you don’t. You just don’t potentially limit your power.

 

[jindra]

Pros are trying to hit the ball when they jump into a shot.
3.0s are trying to jump when they jump into a shot.

 

[Jonesy]

Jump only if you want to look cool or is a hobbit like Schwartzman.

 

[Yamin]

All this time I've thought jumping into the shot is to reduce power. Great for inside the court

 

[Morch Us]

Only the pros/college level players can jump and explode into their forehand

I don't agree with a blank statement like that. There are more variables into it. Also depends on when and why.

1) I had more control
2) I had more power

Since you felt better, I believe that your friend might have observed you doing it at the wrong time and for wrong reasons, and so it is probably for good that you continue to follow his suggestion. Sometimes you don't need to get ALL the facts about a shot right, just need to know how it is related to you.

majority of the time it just ends up being a high spin ball with no real power behind it.

Yea, from your explanations/wordings, what I can assume is that you are doing it for wrong reasons. You need to learn to walk before learning to run. My guess is that you are probably using the jump as a hack to get elevation on your strokes, instead of using proper upper body, hip and chest rotation (with correct body posture/shoulder angles). Also I have seen lower level players using jump as a hack to coverup their poor footwork, to get out of the ball path to create spacing. Forcing yourself to be on ground, may make yourself to work towards correct footwork and rotations into stroke.


Majority of the time in a rally (neutral balls), even pros hit with stable body position. Watching highlights can be confusing, since a large number of shots there could be finishing shots, and probably may see more airborn.

 

[Jst21121]

I don't agree with a blank statement like that. There are more variables into it. Also depends on when and why.


Since you felt better, I believe that your friend might have observed you doing it at the wrong time and for wrong reasons, and so it is probably for good that you continue to follow his suggestion. Sometimes you don't need to get ALL the facts about a shot right, just need to know how it is related to you.


Yea, from your explanations/wordings, what I can assume is that you are doing it for wrong reasons. You need to learn to walk before learning to run. My guess is that you are probably using the jump as a hack to get elevation on your strokes, instead of using proper upper body, hip and chest rotation (with correct body posture/shoulder angles). Also I have seen lower level players using jump as a hack to coverup their poor footwork, to get out of the ball path to create spacing. Forcing yourself to be on ground, may make yourself to work towards correct footwork and rotations into stroke.


Majority of the time in a rally (neutral balls), even pros hit with stable body position. Watching highlights can be confusing, since a large number of shots there could be finishing shots, and probably may see more airborn.

Yes- the walk before run comment rings true. But now I get it- from you guys and obviously my session last night. It makes sense that if you don't have a solid planted stroke- that jumping into a stroke would probably cause de-celeration, and its compensating for something. I just watched some highlights and you are right on the dot. Majority of pros like federer hit stable and sometimes they will move a foot forward but the jump into shot is not 100% all the time- even though highlights show that.

I guess I'll learn to walk before running. On the other hand because I jump around so much my serves are pretty solid.

 

[SV10is]

I do it on occasion when I get a high ball that I feel I can attack. It seems to help me hit harder than I normally do without loosing control. It also gives me a few inches so that ball ends up in a more comfortable spot to hit.

I am not sure I see how I'd manage to do it more often because not every ball calls for it. Clearly, most of the time, staying grounded seems to work better.

 

[TennisCJC]

Ummm, been playing 45 years and have never consciously jumped into a FH or BH. I do think of getting low and lifting and I am sure on occasion both my feet were off the ground as I transition weight from the back foot the front foot but the only shot where I have consciously "jumped" is the serve. Even on the serve, I find it better to think drive up and into the contact rather than jumping. Personally, don't jump except on serve.

 

[Jst21121]

Ummm, been playing 45 years and have never consciously jumped into a FH or BH. I do think of getting low and lifting and I am sure on occasion both my feet were off the ground as I transition weight from the back foot the front foot but the only shot where I have consciously "jumped" is the serve. Even on the serve, I find it better to think drive up and into the contact rather than jumping. Personally, don't jump except on serve.

This is the kind of forehand that I’m talking about.

 

[SV10is]

Ummm, been playing 45 years and have never consciously jumped into a FH or BH. I do think of getting low and lifting and I am sure on occasion both my feet were off the ground as I transition weight from the back foot the front foot but the only shot where I have consciously "jumped" is the serve. Even on the serve, I find it better to think drive up and into the contact rather than jumping. Personally, don't jump except on serve.

When hitting a jumping forehand, the stroke is not divorced from the jump: the jump is how you initiate the stroke.

For example, there's a footwork pattern where you step forward with your racket side foot, load on it and step forward as you hit. If you do that, but you push way harder, then you jump. There are other patterns where this can happen, but it's always the same idea of pushing harder off a step. In other words, it's just an extreme version of something you already do.

 

[Morch Us]

Well... you need a strong base to initiate a strong swing, but after the swing is "initiated" having both legs airborn does not take away anything, and whatever work you put on it before getting airborn will be applied on the shot. If the power is lost it is because the shot was not initiated properly with strong base. There was some interesting experiment on trying to hit strong forehands on rollerblades to prove this point.

How it appears that an airborn shot is more powerful, is because getting airborn helps to advance a larger distance in short time (more weight into the shot) and sometimes allows to skip some steps and move aggressively through the shot since it does not lock the hips (for example hitting an advance level inside out forehand). So it is kind of what you did before getting airborn which really contributing to the aggressiveness of the shot.

All this time I've thought jumping into the shot is to reduce power.

 

[SV10is]

This is the kind of forehand that I’m talking about.

You basically can't hit the first one where he runs around his backhand without a hop. That's how you keep the open stance and make space for yourself.

The second one, I wouldn't recommend to most amateurs. The ball barely is short and he takes the mother of all cuts at the ball from 6 feet behind the baseline. That's actually why he jumped (he pushed off about as hard as he could), but you (well, me at least) probably need a much better court position and an easier incoming ball to swing that hard (and by this I mean that close to your maximum swing speed). But, you know, it's Alcarez.

The real trouble here isn't jumping or hopping or whatever you want to call it. It's mostly that doing it correctly often means you swing about as hard as you can at the ball -- and it's usually not a good idea.

Also, here's the master doing it.

 

[McGradey]

I'd question the value of doing it. You can hit very heavy and accurate forehands without leaving the ground, and no-one here is moving or hitting like Carlos Alcaraz. You are likely wasting energy by jumping on every forehand. None of this is to say that you should never do it, but I don't see the benefit in doing it habitually.

 

[jindra]

There was a guy at the public courts the other day doing hand drops and hitting backhands. He was filming himself on his phone too. He was jumping into every backhand and it was quite comical. But I got way more than I expected when this guy actually fell down after hitting one of his jumping backhands. I continued my warmup while trying not to LOL

 

[Jst21121]

You basically can't hit the first one where he runs around his backhand without a hop. That's how you keep the open stance and make space for yourself.

The second one, I wouldn't recommend to most amateurs. The ball barely is short and he takes the mother of all cuts at the ball from 6 feet behind the baseline. That's actually why he jumped (he pushed off about as hard as he could), but you (well, me at least) probably need a much better court position and an easier incoming ball to swing that hard (and by this I mean that close to your maximum swing speed). But, you know, it's Alcarez.

The real trouble here isn't jumping or hopping or whatever you want to call it. It's mostly that doing it correctly often means you swing about as hard as you can at the ball -- and it's usually not a good idea.

Also, here's the master doing it.

That Federer video really brought it home.

i understand now that it’s a high level shot and in addition at least at the rec level used sparingly when you going for a winner as you are swinging as hard as possible…

and since we are just rec players- swinging as hard as possible like that will prob result in the ball going out or into the net.

well I get it now. I used the jump to compensate for spacing, and that would result in loss of energy with loss of power and control. On occasion I would time it right and hit a brilliant winner but that was on occasion.

i understand now that at the rec level it’s not as effective and most likely will result in loss of endurance along with unenforced errors along with weaker balls then just planting my feet.

thanks for all the advice!

 

[5263]

So I’ve always had a jumping forehand. I played against a better player then me today- and he said just stop. Only the pros/college level players can jump and explode into their forehand as they practice day in and day out.

Instead he told me to stay put, lean into the ball and don’t jump.

What ended up happening is:

1) I had more control
2) I had more power
3) I conserved more energy

some days when I jump into my forehands I have a great explosive shot- but majority of the time it just ends up being a high spin ball with no real power behind it.

so I know all the pros are jumping around like crazy, is this just a technique that requires excellent fundamentals and physical ability before a rec player attempts it?

I’m sorta sad that my jumping forehand game is coming to and end, but I’m excited to see a steady planted forehand making more winners.

for reference I play in the 3.5-4 level. No real aspiration to go higher then that.

you and your friend need to understand there is a time when you should lift off the ground with groundstrokes and a time when you should stay down... even lean in, as you mentioned...and it has nearly nothing to do with level or ability...... but if you don't know when to do each, you will still have issues....

 

[SV10is]

I understand now that it’s a high level shot and in addition at least at the rec level used sparingly when you going for a winner as you are swinging as hard as possible… and since we are just rec players- swinging as hard as possible like that will prob result in the ball going out or into the net.

It's not just that it is much riskier for you as an amateur to play that kind of shot. It's also that it is not clear that it offers the same advantages. I'd argue that it is often (but not always) a cost without a gain: since you're not playing Djokovic, you rarely need to swing all that hard when taking the offensive to put your opponents under pressure meaning you'll be taking more risk without making your edge over your opponent bigger.

To give you an idea of when you might want to use it, I tend to reserve that shot as a change of pace to go big at big targets. I usually do it on sitters from the last few feet of the back of the court when they bounce at the right height to do it. From inside the court, it's almost stupid for an amateur as the shorter court means the added pace is an overkill. Anyway, my two favorite targets for doing that is deep down the middle and deep about midway between the sideline and the middle of the court of your backhand side. The intention isn't to end the point, but to hopefully get you to cough up a much shorter ball. I'm not going to go full on 100% power, but it's definitely a gear above my usual hitting power and it's usually hard enough to handle to give me a ball that's much easier to attack in return.

 

[optic yellow]

When hitting a jumping forehand, the stroke is not divorced from the jump: the jump is how you initiate the stroke.

For example, there's a footwork pattern where you step forward with your racket side foot, load on it and step forward as you hit. If you do that, but you push way harder, then you jump. There are other patterns where this can happen, but it's always the same idea of pushing harder off a step. In other words, it's just an extreme version of something you already do.

Very clearly said imo.

 

[FiddlerDog]

The pros are NOT jumping.
Jumping forehands and excessive wasted movement is the sign of a low level player.
Every high level coach will tell you to stop all that extra nonsense

 

[tlm]

The pros are NOT jumping.
Jumping forehands and excessive wasted movement is the sign of a low level player.
Every high level coach will tell you to stop all that extra nonsense

Ya they are not really jumping, they are rising and rotating into the shot and that causes them to come off the ground slightly right after the ball leaves their racket.

 

[Morch Us]

That is not true though. On many of these shots, the contact is executed "while" both legs are off the ground. So both legs could be off the ground before contact, and well before the ball leaves the racket.

But that still does not invalidate the fact that there is a lot of work done, while you were gounded on this shot. So if the argument is that, it is better to stay on the ground to learn the basis better, I would agree with that. But there is always a time and place for coming off the ground shots, and it is applicable for ALL skills levels and not just pros. The only issue is when you forget the basics, and this apparently can happen more at lower levels than higher levels.

So if you are one of those, over executing these with not much quatifiable results, then you may benefit from forcefully staying grounded.

come off the ground slightly right after the ball leaves their racket.

 

[tlm]

That is not true though. On many of these shots, the contact is executed "while" both legs are off the ground. So both legs could be off the ground before contact, and well before the ball leaves the racket.

But that still does not invalidate the fact that there is a lot of work done, while you were gounded on this shot. So if the argument is that, it is better to stay on the ground to learn the basis better, I would agree with that. But there is always a time and place for coming off the ground shots, and it is applicable for ALL skills levels and not just pros. The only issue is when you forget the basics, and this apparently can happen more at lower levels than higher levels.

So if you are one of those, over executing these with not much quatifiable results, then you may benefit from forcefully staying grounded.

Ya after watching again a lot of the shots are being hit while player is off the ground.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Yeah don't try to be Air Nishikori. Actually, I think even he stopped jumping around so much later in his career.

Interestingly, I used to be a jumper myself, but heard a story about when Chang started working with Kei, he basically grounded Air Nishi to focus on more ground up power, balance, and recovery. I started working on that, but I still find myself jumping a bit, but more so I end up off the steady platform of my feet on my toes too often. When I can stay planted I feel MUCH better through the stroke and ready to move after.

Just my .02

 

[jm1980]

This thread takes me back to this video, from some random guy dissecting a point with Verdasco jumping to hit forehands, and berating TTW saying people here are idiots

 

[Sir Weed]

This thread takes me back to this video, from some random guy dissecting a point with Verdasco jumping to hit forehands, and berating TTW saying people here are idiots

Mwahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Great stuff.

 

[Tennis Aloha]

Jumping on the forehand is next level stuff. First a player must learn to stay grounded and execute without losing balance. Once at a high level, 4.5 at least and higher, then the jumping would probably emerge naturally and without loss of balance. In any case, I would never suggest a recreational player to "jump" on any shot. There's already too many moving parts for any of the shots, over doing it will decrease consistency and recovery time.

 

[optic yellow]

The pros are NOT jumping.
Jumping forehands and excessive wasted movement is the sign of a low level player.
Every high level coach will tell you to stop all that extra nonsense

There is jumping into a shot ala classic Fed and jumping to elevate for a shot ala Kyrgios showboating. Both are valid in the right circumstances. You are correct jumping should not be viewed as intrinsically valuable.

 

[liam the shark]

Jumping is definitely a thing. Mainly on forehands and when you really want to uncoil on the ball

 

[optic yellow]

Jumping is definitely a thing. Mainly on forehands and when you really want to uncoil on the ball

It is just a step into the ball.

 

[liam the shark]

It is just a step into the ball.

Its a "go for it" shot. Djokovic stays grounded in the long rallies but when he is hitting his forehand aggressive he jumps into it

 

[optic yellow]

Its a "go for it" shot. Djokovic stays grounded in the long rallies but when he is hitting his forehand aggressive he jumps into it

Exactly. A more powerful step than one where the back leg stays grounded.

 

[McGradey]

Relevant:

He addresses the jumping thing from 2:30 onwards.

 

[Dragy]

Interestingly, I used to be a jumper myself, but heard a story about when Chang started working with Kei, he basically grounded Air Nishi to focus on more ground up power, balance, and recovery. I started working on that, but I still find myself jumping a bit, but more so I end up off the steady platform of my feet on my toes too often. When I can stay planted I feel MUCH better through the stroke and ready to move after.

Just my .02

I think jumping is most frequently a byproduct of producing big power in too short amount of time. Whenever you manage to distribute it in time (like when using neutral stance step-in footwork), you don’t get that lift.

They sometimes have no time for that and drive strongly and rapidly to swing hard. Or want to put more into the ball. Hence lift happens

 

[Jst21121]

Played the other day.

For one I played more strategically. I didn't jump into every ball. Held my ground and pivoted into the shot. Leaning into it, sometimes the foot would move a bit just as a follow through into the shot. Felt good, solid, control.

When it came down to crushing a ball. I coiled and lifted off the ground with my feet (naturally from coil/acceleration and thrust) and smacked a nasty forehand.

In addition, I noticed that jumping did sometimes happen when I was out of position and hitting a forehand.

Long story made short, I definitely have some sort of more understanding of when its appropriate to let the forehand rip- and its not on every single ball. Keep planted, keep the rally going, and when you feel like going for broke and that ball is in the right place right time-, lift off and let that forehand rip.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Whelp, figgr'd I try to do a few jumping forehands last night in dubs, but only on what I would normally take as a high ball. For reference, with a 1HBH I do a LOT of jumping ROS for second serves, just to get kick down in my strike zone and where my higher backhand will lead to sore shoulders if I do too many from a platform. But anyway, the jumping forehand worked well enough, but still think having a platform, I felt more stable and ready. COuld be I am just older and have a touch of vertigo, so stability is always on my mind.

 

[RyanRF]

You definitely don't need to jump in order to hit a powerful forehand.

If loading and extending your legs through the shot naturally causes you to lift off the ground slightly, that's fine. Just be careful you aren't overdoing it. For rec level players, more jump most likely means less consistency.

 

[Pumpkin]

Jumping is for frogs and kangaroos. Seriously, the jumping the pros do is an extension of the regular forehand. It allows their hips to turn more freely.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

So I’ve always had a jumping forehand. I played against a better player then me today- and he said just stop. Only the pros/college level players can jump and explode into their forehand as they practice day in and day out.

Instead he told me to stay put, lean into the ball and don’t jump.

What ended up happening is:

1) I had more control
2) I had more power
3) I conserved more energy

some days when I jump into my forehands I have a great explosive shot- but majority of the time it just ends up being a high spin ball with no real power behind it.

so I know all the pros are jumping around like crazy, is this just a technique that requires excellent fundamentals and physical ability before a rec player attempts it?

I’m sorta sad that my jumping forehand game is coming to and end, but I’m excited to see a steady planted forehand making more winners.

for reference I play in the 3.5-4 level. No real aspiration to go higher then that.

Do what makes you happy and enjoy the game: if hitting jumping FHs is a great joy, keep doing it.

I think the feedback from the better player was accurate: look at the cost/benefit and you'll realize it's probably costing you more than you're gaining. Jumping yields a lower contact point and more potential energy release from the uncoil. That's how Alcaraz is hitting 100mph FHs.

So ask yourself: do you need that kind of power? Could you control it if you did? How much accuracy are you willing to sacrifice? Can your quads handle that for 2 hours? Does it degrade the rest of your game increasingly over time [the serve would be the most obvious place to look]?

Again, it comes down to what you value. If you're comfortable at 3.5 and don't aspire to progress and the jumping FH gets oohs and aahs from the crowd and floats your boat, then I see no reason to stop.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Ya they are not really jumping, they are rising and rotating into the shot and that causes them to come off the ground slightly right after the ball leaves their racket.

Look at the replays of Alcaraz: he is definitely not coming off of the ground after contact. His front foot is at or near his jump apex at the moment of contact, which makes perfect sense if you were trying to lower the contact point or attack a higher ball from a more comfortable position. the one at 0:50 is a good example.

For a more extreme example, look at Le Monf: