Mental Strength, Completeness and Boringness are the same thing

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Novak Djokovic is called the most clutch player of all time. He is also called the most complete player of all time. Both of these things are debatable. I can say the young Nadal was more clutch, but Novak throughout his career has been maybe the best we have seen. What is inarguable is both of these things are at least partially true.

There are many players that are called mentally weak. eg. Andy Murray and his passiveness, if he just fixed this, he would be an atg. Zverev with his forehand, Sinner with his serve and Tsitsipas with his backhand and return. Then comes this guy Alcaraz, who is great at everything. And nobody is calling him mentally weak.

What is the connection? Completeness gives a player more options to win pressure points. Tennis is about pressure points, you can win most categories but lose the match if you lose the pressure points. This is visible by the 2019 Wimbledon finals. This allows Djokovic to play his game instead of taking unnecessary risks. For some fans, this makes him boring because he can play his own game in pressure points.

Going back to Australian Open 2009, it was a medium pace surface. The ball was not flying through the court. Rafa had to play his own game vs Roger, while Roger was trying to use variety of shots to stay in the points. Roger dominated many points but on pressure points Nadal could always play his own game. It was not easy for Nadal, he had to play at razor thin margins but Nadal had a proven method to win the pressure points. Nadal saved most of the important points to win set 1 and 3. Federer had to compete with Nadal's whipping fh and he had no answer to it.


Just 3 years later, in Australian open 2012, it was pretty slow surface. Rafa had advantage with court speed. Both Nadal and Djokovic were playing at razor thin margins. There was no proven method to win pressure points. This made the match into who had better consistency, and who was better physically. The extreme movement by both followed by incredible hitting is not repeated by anyone.


There is preference by some fans between first match or the other. But what we can unquestionably say is the first match had better variety while the second match was more razor thin margins. For some people, having more variety will always be more entertaining. But this Federer was not having tool to beat Nadal on 2009 surface, let alone even slowed further 2012 surface. And on important points, having completeness didn't mean throw 5 different shots when opponent is throwing only 1 shot, whipping fh.
 

buscemi

Hall of Fame
I disagree with the premise that mental strength, completeness and boringness are the same thing.

Connors had a complete game and major mental strength, but neither he nor his game were boring at all.
 
I disagree with the premise that mental strength, completeness and boringness are the same thing.

Connors had a complete game and major mental strength, but neither he nor his game were boring at all.
As a kid, I thought his game was kind of boring.

That's why I was a McEnroe fan.
 
Djokovic is the greatest of all time. Probably the most mentally tough as well.

But can you make the case that Nadal and/or Federer were more exciting to watch?

Yeah, sure.

But that doesn't change the fact that nobody is as well rounded and preforms better under pressure than Djokovic.
 

buscemi

Hall of Fame
As a kid, I thought his game was kind of boring.

That's why I was a McEnroe fan.
How about Becker? Complete game with a big serve, a great net game, and good groundstrokes. Mentally tough with one of the best five set records, an incredible Davis Cup record, and a 6-4 record in Major finals. Definitely not boring.
 
Nah, I wouldn't say Boris Becker was a boring player.

I wasn't a fan at the time but I don't recall ever thinking he was a boring player.
 

Oval_Solid

Hall of Fame
mental strength is based on margin of error
if u make djoker use a 90 square inch racket his mental strength dissipates under pressure
 

thrust

Legend
How about Becker? Complete game with a big serve, a great net game, and good groundstrokes. Mentally tough with one of the best five set records, an incredible Davis Cup record, and a 6-4 record in Major finals. Definitely not boring.
Becker was not boring, but he was not very consistent either. He has very few weeks at #1 and never had a YE #1 ranking. Edberg had 72 weeks at #1 and 2 YE rankings at #1
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
Sampras was consistent, more or leads acknowledged as the best during most of his peak, had an attacking game, and yet was considered boring by many. So I don’t see that correlation.

Sampras is my all time fav. I find Novak’s game to be must watch TV as well because of his remarkable consistency. So these types of opinions are always personal.

However, it can be argued that Novak’s game, though brilliant, lacks the flair that either Fed or Nadal had/has. So in comparison, Novak would suffer if you prefer a certain brand of tennis.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Sampras, Borg, Becker, Nadal are all very clutch players. Djokovic is clutch but he has had many moments of lapses.

Boring is subjective.
 

thrust

Legend
Sampras, Borg, Becker, Nadal are all very clutch players. Djokovic is clutch but he has had many moments of lapses.

Boring is subjective.
NO great player wins ALL the time, however, they do win most of the time against the best and lesser players. For some reason, I never thought Pete's game was ever boring, just as I don[t think Novak's of Rafa's are either though I prefer Pete or Roger's game stye.
 
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Azure

G.O.A.T.
NO great player wins ALL the time, however, they do win most of the time against the best and lesser players. For some reason, I never thought Pete's game was ever boring, just as I don[t think Novak's of Rafa's are either though I prefer Pete or Roger's game stye.
Where did I mention winning in my post?
 

thrust

Legend
Where did I mention winning in my post?
Which is the problem with your post. WINNING is what counts, not game style, personality or popularity. Anyone who is bored with Pete's game or that of any of the Big 3, does not understand or really like tennis.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Which is the problem with your post. WINNING is what counts, not game style, personality or popularity. Anyone who is bored with Pete's game or that of any of the Big 3, does not understand or really like tennis.
Where did I mention about style, personality or popularity either?

I think you didn’t comprehend my post.
 

Razer

Legend
Completeness does not correlate to Mental Toughness.

Sometimes unskilled people are confident and put their best effort while skilled people fear and goof things up, we've seen in some many areas of life.

Courage to take risks cannot be taught, it is inbuilt.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Completeness does not correlate to Mental Toughness.

Sometimes unskilled people are confident and put their best effort while skilled people fear and goof things up, we've seen in some many areas of life.


Courage to take risks cannot be taught, it is inbuilt.
Seen this so many times. So true!
 
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