NCAA Retreating on Rule Changes!
- Thread starter Kirijax
- Start date
Tennishacker
Professional
Result of push back by 99% of college coaches.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
They're being fools if they think doubles is the issue here-- it lasts 45 minutes as is.
We all know that women play longer matches and longer points, because almost all women lack the power game that most/many men have. I believe that the advantage of serving in the women's college game is really not much of an advantage. Does anyone have stats on service game hold percentages? My guess is that it is around 60% for college women. I expect college men hold serve around 75% of the time.
At the NCAA's that I have been to (7 years in row) it is not uncommon to have 4 hour women's singles matches and 3 hour matches are almost common place. Thank goodness for the clinch rule or they might never finish getting in 8 matches on the first day and 4 on QF day. With no ad scoring I can still see an occasional 3 hour women's match, but combined with the clinch rule it should be very rare.
For the men a 3 hour singles match has been a rarity, except when a couple of pushers play each other. The problem on the men's side is that many matches are blow outs and are only about 1 1/4 hours. With 'no ad' one sided matches they may only be an hour and with the clinch rule 'grinders' will not complete many matches.
TV coverage seems to be the reason for the change, but in dual matches I think regular scoring with a clinch rule with an option to play out all matches is the best approach. I do like 'no ad scoring at the NCAA's, because of having to play singles and doubles for 10/11 days in a row if you are a top player.
Of course, I have long thought that 'one ad' scoring would be an excellent compromise, as I expect the frequency of multi deuce games are in the 5% range. I expect that one deuce games are now in the 10% to maybe 15% range. I even think the pros should go to 'one ad' scoring in singles, especially at he majors with those long 5 setters.
I believe that the NCAA objection to 'no ad' only relates to the NCAA tourney, so it would not impact the 'no ad' change already adopted by ITA for dual matches.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
I play d3 and occasionally we do road matches where the men and the women travel together and split the courts (cut back on travel fees, make it easier on the head coach, etc.) Without a doubt, the men's matches always end first. I think it's really the slower courts that have hurt the women's game. The top two players on our womens team can hit harder than many of the men from the baseline, or at least as hard, but serves are way slower, so holding isn't too much of a guarantee. Granted at d1 you'll see more winners, but even at challengers I've seen some girls put up what must be a 45-50 mile an hour second serve. These girls should have been watching more Serena and less Sharapova!
What is the advantage of the clinch rule for dual matches? Unlike tournaments, no one needs to get on the courts quickly. No TV station needs to go overtime to show a match after the dual match has been clinched. No fan has to stay in the stands to watch such a match, either.
So, what's the reasoning?
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
Potentially avoiding excess wear and tear on your players.
Usually I think you're right-- the experience of playing against someone outside of your team is good for both parties, but if someone is playing hurt, or has had a lot of matches in a short span, and you want to avoid wearing them down too much, it might be a good idea to stop playing once the matches stop counting.
I understand the wear and tear argument but for rankings and experience purposes, they should be played. If a team wins 4-1 with three matches still underway, then both teams should play it out as a rule. If one team wants to stop playing, say the winning team, then the record should stand as 4-3 instead of 4-1. But in order for that to mean anything, the rankings need to put a higher value on a 7-0 win than having a 4-3 win get the same value as a 7-0. But that's a whole other can of worms...
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
Fair point. I honestly have no idea how the ranking system works, so that thought didn't cross my mind haha
justinmadison
Semi-Pro
The ‘no ad’ change makes a big difference. I don’t know the overall frequency but it stands to reason the closer in skill level the players, the closer the match, the more duce points.
My son played a tournament match this year that went 3 sets. They had 11 deciding points in their 31 game match.
My daughter is at a D1 school and she is saying the ITA is now planning to abandon the no-ad scheme for a one-doubles, four-singles dual, with all five matches played simultaneously and some rules about the lineup (can't remember this for sure, maybe a doubles pair cannot play consecutive matches?). Another fiasco, likely, with collateral impacts far worse than whatever gain the ITA higher-ups imagine.
This is much worse than the no ad alternative, but it sure makes the men's 4.5 schollies easier to handle. The women have 8 now and will not need 8 if this happens. If the 5 and 6 guys singles guys/girls will end up playing doubles all the time they will be most unhappy, even if it is two out of three sets and the 1-4 players will generally not play doubles.
The NCAA tourney committee should have just stayed out of it. Now no one will be happy.
It seems that keeping matches to no more than 3 hours is still going to happen for TV and/or streaming popularity.
One doubles and four singles played simultaneously. Wow.
So basically this would seriously damage any notion about college tennis being the "minor leagues" for the pro tour. How can you prepare for the tour when you're only playing doubles? I guess the Bryan brothers wouldn't have minded much. lol Wow. Any link to this? It's hard to believe. Would it narrow the gap between the top and lower teams? or would it separate them even further? I would think the later might be the case.
So basically this would seriously damage any notion about college tennis being the "minor leagues" for the pro tour. How can you prepare for the tour when you're only playing doubles? I guess the Bryan brothers wouldn't have minded much. lol Wow. Any link to this? It's hard to believe. Would it narrow the gap between the top and lower teams? or would it separate them even further? I would think the later might be the case.
chris-swede
Hall of Fame
if a coach mixes it up, i see no real problems in it...u still need 6 guy/girls and 1 or 2 reserves
but it still changes college tennis a lot...also scheduling is silly..why to travel 4 to 8 hours for only 4 singles and 1 doubles at the same time? maybe they will event some super-weekends??? 4 Teams at 1 school playing each other in 3 days from Friday to Sunday?
Rule changes violate what we train for
as a junior player hoping to go off to a d1 school and play tennis, i can say that the rule changes essentially void a good chunk of our training.
In texas it gets in the 90s and 100s all summer and spring, we train our butts off so that we are in the best shape possible.
to make the matches shorter gives an advantage to players who just hit hard and can blast through points easier, but it takes away the chance a grind has at staying in the match by putting more balls in play
i played a kid in my tournament who had a big serve and big returns, my only chance was to get as many balls in play and save all teh game points i could, but with no ad scoring i would have lost that mathc, which i won 7-6 7-5
these rule changes are not for the better as they are taking away thehard work in conditioning and practice the players put forth
as a junior player hoping to go off to a d1 school and play tennis, i can say that the rule changes essentially void a good chunk of our training.
In texas it gets in the 90s and 100s all summer and spring, we train our butts off so that we are in the best shape possible.
to make the matches shorter gives an advantage to players who just hit hard and can blast through points easier, but it takes away the chance a grind has at staying in the match by putting more balls in play
i played a kid in my tournament who had a big serve and big returns, my only chance was to get as many balls in play and save all teh game points i could, but with no ad scoring i would have lost that mathc, which i won 7-6 7-5
these rule changes are not for the better as they are taking away thehard work in conditioning and practice the players put forth
Some commentators seem to have missed this part. Not that I like the idea, regardless.
Hi, good discussion on this board about the 4 single, 1 double setting. But I see no chatter outside of this board about it, e.g. not from zootennis, parentingaces and no formal updates from the governing bodies. Seems like a rumor about one of the more far fetched options on the table.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
it don't matter. it looks like teams are making up their own rules as they go along anyway. at this rate, we are going to have mixed double soon
Clemson_tennis
Legend
I would prefer no-ad to 4 singles and 1 doubles. 6 singles is the perfect amount
It is highly unlikely that you will see anything concrete on this issue until after the ITA convention in mid-December.
From a personal standpoint, I can't see having fewer than six singles matches in D-1. By mid-December, most coaches have a good idea about their singles lineup for the first part of the season, and would be resistant to change.
Of course, this issue will be driven by the coaches of the "power teams," and by television, if the NCAA sniffs money out there.
It must be driving crazy the people who assign officials to such matches.
From a personal standpoint, I can't see having fewer than six singles matches in D-1. By mid-December, most coaches have a good idea about their singles lineup for the first part of the season, and would be resistant to change.
Of course, this issue will be driven by the coaches of the "power teams," and by television, if the NCAA sniffs money out there.
It must be driving crazy the people who assign officials to such matches.
kingcheetah
Hall of Fame
The thing is that if there are fewer matches, the rosters become smaller. So all of the teams that are known for their depth and basically being a prep ground for a potential pro career are going to have fewer players, and it might be tempting to go pro instead of going to college if you only play against 6 different players as opposed to 9 (im not sure what the exact roster numbers would be but that is the general idea.)
This weekend's Women Tournament at Alabama, Roberta Alison Fall Classic, is using traditional Ad scoring and match tiebreaker in lieu of 3rd set for all singles matches. Good to see that different formats are tested. They used no-ad and full third set in main draw in Alabama a few weeks back. Let's hope that the feedback is collected and considered appropriately.
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