No-one on the tour uses a semi-western backhand grip. Has it died out?

[thomasferrett]

Kuerten used to hit with one.

A run through the top 100 shows you've got Wawinka (weak eastern), Federer (weak eastern), Dimitrov (strong continental), Lopez (continental), Robredo (eastern), Kohlschreiber (eastern), Mayer (eastern), Berlocq (eastern), Thiem (weak eastern), Youzhny (strong continental), Cuevas (eastern), Almagro (eastern), Garcia-Lopez (eastern), Haas (weak eastern), Lajovic (eastern).

The closest is Gasquet (strong eastern). But a strong eastern 1hbh grip feels very different to a semi-western.

The tour is becoming more and more spin-dominated. Bounce height will continue to increase until soon the average rally ball bounces over the head of a 6ft 2in man. Yet, despite this, there seems to be a trend for more and more conservative backhand grips.

Thiem and Dimitrov are the youngest of the bunch and they are using a weak eastern and a strong continental grip, respectively?

Why aren't pro's using extreme grips for their backhands?

Even on the 2hbh side, the average grip is to have a continental backhand dominant hand and an eastern forehand non-dominant hand. That is a very conservative grip combo! It's like the 90's.

Why not have a semi-western backhand dominant hand and a full western forehand non-dominant hand grip combo for more topspin and the ability to rip through balls over head height?

 

[Netspirit]

Because it requires an extremely-closed stance which is a major disadvantage in baseline rallies. The modern tennis gravitates towards open stances and 2HBHs.

 

[thomasferrett]

Because it requires an extremely-closed stance which is a major disadvantage in baseline rallies. The modern tennis gravitates towards open stances and 2HBHs.

Well, the general trend is that the more extreme the grip, the more open the stance, so if anything the semi-western backhand grip would mean hitting with a more open stance.

Yet, having said this, how open you hit really can be independent of grips. For example, Gasquet has a significantly more extreme grip than Thiem, yet Thiem opens up his chest much more and is much more likely to hit from an open stance from a footwork perspective.

EDIT: also this thread isn't even a 1hbh vs 2hbh debate. For example, why aren't the people using 2hbh's using much more extreme grip combinations than they are currently using? Instead of conti/eastern they could have sw/w grip combos which would mean more open stance, more topspin, higher strike zone.

 

[Zoid]

Kuerten used to hit with one.

A run through the top 100 shows you've got Wawinka (weak eastern), Federer (weak eastern), Dimitrov (strong continental), Lopez (continental), Robredo (eastern), Kohlschreiber (eastern), Mayer (eastern), Berlocq (eastern), Thiem (weak eastern), Youzhny (strong continental), Cuevas (eastern), Almagro (eastern), Garcia-Lopez (eastern), Haas (weak eastern), Lajovic (eastern).

The closest is Gasquet (strong eastern). But a strong eastern 1hbh grip feels very different to a semi-western.

The tour is becoming more and more spin-dominated. Bounce height will continue to increase until soon the average rally ball bounces over the head of a 6ft 2in man. Yet, despite this, there seems to be a trend for more and more conservative backhand grips.

Thiem and Dimitrov are the youngest of the bunch and they are using a weak eastern and a strong continental grip, respectively?

Why aren't pro's using extreme grips for their backhands?

Even on the 2hbh side, the average grip is to have a continental backhand dominant hand and an eastern forehand non-dominant hand. That is a very conservative grip combo! It's like the 90's.

Why not have a semi-western backhand dominant hand and a full western forehand non-dominant hand grip combo for more topspin and the ability to rip through balls over head height?

More spin isn't always better. You can still generate a lot of spin with more conventional grips anyway. Look at fed's fh, wawrinka's backhand is heavy etc.
If the ball is over your head that often perhaps you should think about your movement up in the court rather than your grip? movement will always trump any grip. The more conventional grips allow players to take the ball earlier, flatten shots out, less time adjusting etc.

Most pros move well enough to take a ball early so they don't have to deal with a backhand at head height. The tour isn't all about spin, Novak and Murray are actually quite flat hitters. A player still needs the ability to flatten his shots out. With a strong wrist a player can get a lot of spin from conventional grips given todays rackets and strings. Wawrinka has a unique backhand in that he opens his shoulders to get a lot of his power which is not how most would teach it, however his backhand is phenomenal. Thiem does this a little too but it's due to him picking up the shot late and carrying over some 2hbh habits (he hit with 2 until 15 or so i believe).

Other than nadal i don't see a player really exposing this problem, and even with an extreme backhand grip, you wouldn't be doing yourself any favours against rafa,

 

[sundaypunch]

Why aren't pro's using extreme grips for their backhands?

Because there is no need. The people you mention can get as much spin as they desire with their current grips.

 

[MasturB]

So what does a strong eastern and weak eastern and eastern look like?

 

[ricki]

ehm... I cant imagine anyone playing continental grip on any shot besides touch shots and serves. Maybe you use different names for grips. Federer is most classic of them all and he uses eastern grip. The very next bevel is semi western and I think most of others use semi western grip as I do (its same as on forehand, how would you keep ball in court with open racquet face???)...

 

[Netspirit]

Well, the general trend is that the more extreme the grip, the more open the stance, so if anything the semi-western backhand grip would mean hitting with a more open stance.

Not really. Just take the racket and try it yourself.

The stance opens on the forehand side. One-handed backhands are hit with the opposite side of the stringbed, so it is your back that "opens" towards the court (so your stance becomes more closed).

An extreme backhand grip requires either an extreme pronation of the arm (to tilt the racket back so it faces the net at the (high) contact point), or a substantially closed stance.

Having to turn away from the court is a major disadvantage during baseline rallies.

 

[thomasferrett]

Not really. Just take the racket and try it yourself.

The stance opens on the forehand side. One-handed backhands are hit with the opposite side of the stringbed, so it is your back that "opens" towards the court (so your stance becomes more closed).

An extreme backhand grip requires either an extreme pronation of the arm (to tilt the racket back so it faces the net at the (high) contact point), or a substantially closed stance.

Having to turn away from the court is a major disadvantage during baseline rallies.

Don't have to try it, as I use the semi-western 1hbh grip myself.

I hit from a closed stance where possible (just like Djokovic does) and hit open stance when forced to. Semi-western grip means you have to hit further in front of you. In some ways this means more complicated timing. In other ways it means you are taking time away from your opponent.

Semi-western 1hbh grip means you can have a neutral or extended wrist at high contact point which is why it is so great for high balls. In weak eastern or continental backhand grip you need a very flexed wrist (which is a weak position for the wrist to be in), otherwise the racket face will be too open and your shot will sail long.

Pronation is not affected greatly, in fact supination (the opposite forearm movement) is used as the racket releases at the end of the shot - which explains that whirling motion that guys like Almagro and Gasquet have at the end of their swings.

 

[nkjwlf]

Don Budge backhand grip! Use the same grip on forehand and backhand. Extreme Western forehand grip equals perfect grip for a backhand. Same grip, both sides with the Budge backhand grip with the thumb up on the handle. Google it if you have too. That's extreme backhand grip to the max.

 

[Alexrb]

So what does a strong eastern and weak eastern and eastern look like?

This...

Someone please post a link that accurately describes these. I've searched and it's all very unhelpful.

 

[MasturB]

ehm... I cant imagine anyone playing continental grip on any shot besides touch shots and serves. Maybe you use different names for grips. Federer is most classic of them all and he uses eastern grip. The very next bevel is semi western and I think most of others use semi western grip as I do (its same as on forehand, how would you keep ball in court with open racquet face???)...

Quite the opposite.

Roger sometimes uses continental to flatten out a backhand.

 

[welcome2petrkordaland]

Don Budge backhand grip! Use the same grip on forehand and backhand. Extreme Western forehand grip equals perfect grip for a backhand. Same grip, both sides with the Budge backhand grip with the thumb up on the handle. Google it if you have too. That's extreme backhand grip to the max.

Based on your description, this is exactly what I do (although I've not studied Budge's stroke). Some used to say my bh grip was reminiscent of alberto bersetegui as well.

The only limitation for me at least is bh return of serve. I go the slice unless it sits up for any period of time. There's just no time to whip up low to high curving back down again, like my stroke requires. But high balls? I rip them with huge top. Most other balls? Not a problems, unless it's super low, in which case I slice. I've never seen anyone hit a 1-hder like I do from a technical perspective; I will definitely check out Budge's out of curiosity.

 

[DonDiego]

Semi-western grip means you have to hit further in front of you. In some ways this means more complicated timing. In other ways it means you are taking time away from your opponent.

Semi-western 1hbh grip means you can have a neutral or extended wrist at high contact point which is why it is so great for high balls. [...] which explains that whirling motion that guys like Almagro and Gasquet have at the end of their swings.

Wow! This is exactly what I've been experiencing with my backhands for years... but I hadn't realized that my grip was the biggest factor for this. Thanks a lot man, I've never had a clearer picture of the pros and cons of my backhand.

I've worked a lot on my two-handers this last year to see if I could fix the timing issues that often arise, but now that I know WHY these happen, I might stick to my one-hander and maybe alter the grip a little to see what comes out of it.

 

[DonDiego]

By the way, for those who need to see what these different grips look like, here's a good link with pictures: http://tennis.about.com/od/forehandbackhand/ss/bh1gripclosewt_4.htm#step-heading

 

[Lucas2015]

Gaudio used western like Guga. I agree with op, I wonder why only two players!

 

[el sergento]

It’s not that complicated. The more extreme grips make it harder to transition between the forehand grip and the two backhand grips, one to drive the ball, the other to slice. Plus, I don’t see how those extreme grips do anything outside of clay given that you need more time to set up.

Any one hander knows that quick grip changes are essential, especially for returns and defense. The quicker you can make it over to the desired grip, be it an eastern to drive the ball, or a continental to knife it, the better.

Witness Stans forehand return. The extreme grip on his forehand forces him to bunt the ball back quite frequently. Against an attacking player, like Federer, that’s a losing proposition.

 

[el sergento]

It’s not that complicated. The more extreme grips make it harder to transition between the forehand grip and the two backhand grips, one to drive the ball, the other to slice. Plus, I don’t see how those extreme grips do anything outside of clay given that you need more time to set up.

Any one hander knows that quick grip changes are essential, especially for returns and defense. The quicker you can make it over to the desired grip, be it an eastern to drive the ball, or a continental to knife it, the better.

Witness Stans forehand return. The extreme grip on his forehand forces him to bunt the ball back quite frequently. Against an attacking player, like Federer, that’s a losing proposition.

 

[acintya]

.mistake

 

[acintya]

look at this beauty.. Is this a hybrid grip?