NTRP is nothing but...

[NoSkillzAndy]

That's ridiculous. Just because we suck doesn't mean we shouldn't have some sort of organized competition to compete in. Does winning a 4.0 league mean anything in the bigger picture? Of course not, but it's not the meaning of the prize in the annals of tennis history that matters, it's the meaning of the prize to the people competing for it that matters.

I agree. Someone with an all or nothing attitude about sports doesn't understand the nature of competition. I won't ever play on the pro tour but that doesn't stop me from having fun playing and competing in recreational tournaments & leagues and trying to improve my game. I would hate to see what the tennis scene would be like without the USTA or its equivalent.

 

[mtommer]

Just because we suck doesn't mean we shouldn't have some sort of organized competition to compete in.

You should read what I wrote again. I never said there shouldn't be. However, by keeping play within the city you'd probably get a small but fun feature in your hometown paper for winning, and basically, it just keeps the level of play grounded for what it really is. It allows a small fish in a puddle to shine at the one place where, if it's going to matter or produce anything positive at all, one has the best chance of accomplishing something notable to the people around them.

Moreover, if the parks and rec dept do a decent job with marketing and promotion then maybe the tournaments will have a decent number of people, and while the better players will have to wade their way through the guppies, at least those guppies will be there, hopefully having a good experience and heightening the play/ tournament atmosphere. It will give the guppies a look into what they can achieve, better play, by putting in more work and knowing they can in fact achieve that level of play as anybody can reach 4.0/4.5 skill level merely by putting in the time. That makes the tournaments better, that makes the city more excited for the sport overall, that makes tennis more popular overall and maybe cities will be a little bit more supportive of their champions as it can't really be any worse. I don't see this as "demoting" tennis. I see it as improving it.

 

[goran_ace]

I've played in a city/county non-USTA tournament with a huge draw that welcomed all levels. A lot of the local teaching pros would play the event for publicity and prestige (the main sponsor of the tournament was the newspaper, results were posted in the sports section and while the tournament was running they'd post bios, articles/photos of noteworthy players), clubs would support their pros. It had a full 64 draw and in my opinion the first 2 rounds were a waste of time. The weekend hackers didn't enjoy paying a $30-40 entry fee to get double-bageled in under 40 minutes (no consolation round). A 4.0-4.5 player might get to the round of 16 at best with a lucky draw, but going into the tournament they know they would eventually run into a player and just get outclassed so they'd generally be ok with just winning their first round match. It would have been much better if the had split the draw into 2 or 3 divisions so the matches would be more competitive. It gives those who aren't top level players a chance to play more matches.

There are non-USTA options in cities with a larger tennis playing population, but at least where I live the park and rec departments really reduced a lot of their tennis activities due to budget problems. A lot of programs were cut or reduced so they could maintain full funding for golf, which is expensive, but is also the biggest moneymaker. USTA and non-USTA non-park and rec programs (e.g. indie leagues, inter club leagues, work leagues, grand prix tournament series) can and do exist side by side, but you typically have to be a member of a club so you can reserve courts and there have to be people willing to take the time to run the events for little/no pay.

 

[J_R_B]

You should read what I wrote again. I never said there shouldn't be. However, by keeping play within the city you'd probably get a small but fun feature in your hometown paper for winning, and basically, it just keeps the level of play grounded for what it really is. It allows a small fish in a puddle to shine at the one place where, if it's going to matter or produce anything positive at all, one has the best chance of accomplishing something notable to the people around them.

Moreover, if the parks and rec dept do a decent job with marketing and promotion then maybe the tournaments will have a decent number of people, and while the better players will have to wade their way through the guppies, at least those guppies will be there, hopefully having a good experience and heightening the play/ tournament atmosphere. It will give the guppies a look into what they can achieve, better play, by putting in more work and knowing they can in fact achieve that level of play as anybody can reach 4.0/4.5 skill level merely by putting in the time. That makes the tournaments better, that makes the city more excited for the sport overall, that makes tennis more popular overall and maybe cities will be a little bit more supportive of their champions as it can't really be any worse. I don't see this as "demoting" tennis. I see it as improving it.

What city? I live in endless suburban sprawl. I do play our county tournament every year that is hosted by the county park commission, but 5.0 level players consistently win it, so it's not like I'm going to be competitive in that anyway and I just play for the match I will eventually play against someone who will totally smoke me. The NTRP league is where I can consistently find competition against people my level where everyone is competing and has a chance to win. It's a great thing around here.

 

[Fugazi]

Ah. Impressive stats. All our good girls are from Quebec it seems.

Bien, elle est tres joli aussi. Tu es vraiement chanseuses mon ami. =).

I hope she let's you win few games here and there.

Cheers,

lolll Actually we played two matches this summer! I hadn't played regularly in about 10 years (although I do play competitive squash), and she did not train seriously for the last 5 years (she's a coach now). I ended up winning both times, but it was pretty close. But it's hard to play one's girlfriend/boyfriend and really compete as in any other match. Kinda like playing your best friend...

 

[MNPlayer]

People do get a little too obsessed with it (see Dreamer's posts), but I think NTRP is great for getting matches against players of similar level. And I love the team aspect of USTA league which I missed out on in high school, not having played HS or college tennis. I don't know why you would be against something that gets people out and exercising enthusiastically.

It is also fun to play against higher level players or juniors, etc. There are always open tournaments for that. I think it's great that there are so many ways to enjoy tennis.

 

[dlk]

That's ridiculous. Just because we suck doesn't mean we shouldn't have some sort of organized competition to compete in. Does winning a 4.0 league mean anything in the bigger picture? Of course not, but it's not the meaning of the prize in the annals of tennis history that matters, it's the meaning of the prize to the people competing for it that matters.

Agree. That's what I get, "mtommer feels there is no place for oragnized rec. paly." Agree with MNPlayer too.

 

[JRstriker12]

I agree wholeheartedly. All I really see it as is a way for recreational players to "feel good" about themselves and their game. Rec level players don't need a rating and they don't need "competitive" matches as nobody at this level plays good tennis to begin with. There's only four levels of tennis that matter: juniors/high school (and given the juniors circuit high school is questionable), college, semi-pro and pro. That's it.

If any adult thinks they are good at tennis they need to go play some college players. If they can keep up, they may consider themselves decent tennis players. If they cannot they may continue to play tennis knowing that the only reason they are playing it is "for fun". There's nothing wrong with that of course. I'm absolutely in that category and very low within it to be sure. I think the USTA needs to get the heck out of adult rec tennis and leave it to the parks and rec dept, just like you find with softball, basketball, etc.

What's wrong with feeling good about being able to compete with people who are about on your level? Find some friendly people who like to play and who are close to your level, go out and hit, form a team, talk trash, laugh, have fun - no harm done.

Whether you play at a club, in USTA or even on your own with friends, it’s what people tend to do anyway – find people who are fairly close in ability to make their matches more fun and competitive – not boring or overwhelming.

Ah! The whole "Who is a good tennis player" argument - really meaningless in terms of NTRP as NTRP does not say who is a "good" player, just gives you a relative estimate of your level of play.

Why does USTA need to get out of rec tennis? In comparison to playing USTA and my days of managing a rec soccer team, the USTA leagues I’ve played in are well run in comparison.

If you live in a city with a large tennis playing population, then your recreational department may bother with setting up leagues/tournaments etc. If you live in urban sprawl where most of the adult recreational money goes to softball (as it does where I live – even adult soccer is on a slim lifeline), then you are SOL. On top of that, a lot of cities and counties are cutting back on these sorts of programs. I'd much rather pay to have a dependable, organized league and not worry about if my county/city thinks it can save time and money by dropping its tennis program.

 

[DavaiMarat]

lolll Actually we played two matches this summer! I hadn't played regularly in about 10 years (although I do play competitive squash), and she did not train seriously for the last 5 years (she's a coach now). I ended up winning both times, but it was pretty close. But it's hard to play one's girlfriend/boyfriend and really compete as in any other match. Kinda like playing your best friend...

Sounds like you played some serious ball back in the hay-day too. I played for university of Ottawa back in the late 90's. Fun times.

I can relate to the girl friend /playing thing. I hit with my girl but we never play points. We play mixed together but never against each other. Just a unwritten rule we have. She played college tennis too in Boston so she's pretty competitive.

We use to play against each other but it usually ended with her walking off the court and calling me a mean SOB....heheh

However, if it's scrabble, (that we both suck at!) then it's gloves off.

Cheers man,

I grew up in NB so I can speak a little french.

 

[mtommer]

The NTRP league is where I can consistently find competition against people my level where everyone is competing and has a chance to win. It's a great thing around here.

You have got to be kidding me. Dumb things down much?

I do play our county tournament every year that is hosted by the county park commission, but 5.0 level players consistently win it, so it's not like I'm going to be competitive in that anyway and I just play for the match I will eventually play against someone who will totally smoke me.

People, please don't mention competitive and then make statements like this and the one above. Man, I can't imagine how quickly I would have been off the team if I'd displayed an attitude like this when I played baseball. Do you think it mattered when we played Univ of Mich that we weren't expected to win being a MAC team? We were expected to play to win, and further, it did not need to be expected, of course we would play to win. If we were playing the Detroit Tigers we would all go out expecting to win. Thank goodness Roddick doesn't have your mentality whenever he plays Federer.



EDIT*(sigh)*: Okay, as someone has just pointed out to me, I've been particularly in a foul mood the last couple of days. Upon reflection, I can see how this has been playing out in my posts, particularly in this thread. So to JRB and others, I apologize for my snide attitude. While I still agree with the OP in that I think there could be a better system that doesn't mean I have to display a bad attitude for those who like the current system especially as one poster already pointed out, my own ideas are far from perfect too.

 

[J_R_B]

You have got to be kidding me. Dumb things down much?



People, please don't mention competitive and then make statements like this and the one above. Man, I can't imagine how quickly I would have been off the team if I'd displayed an attitude like this when I played baseball. Do you think it mattered when we played Univ of Mich that we weren't expected to win being a MAC team? We were expected to play to win, and further, it did not need to be expected, of course we would play to win. If we were playing the Detroit Tigers we would all go out expecting to win. Thank goodness Roddick doesn't have your mentality whenever he plays Federer.

You're not being realistic at all. Tennis isn't a profession for us, it's a game and a hobby, and people don't like to go out and get killed every time out. That's just not fun any more. Roddick does have a chance when he plays Federer, and despite your enthusiasm at the chance to play the Tigers, I'm sure baseball would have gotten a lot less fun if you had no one but the Tigers to play against and you lost 75-0 every game.

EDIT*(sigh)*: Okay, as someone has just pointed out to me, I've been particularly in a foul mood the last couple of days. Upon reflection, I can see how this has been playing out in my posts, particularly in this thread. So to JRB and others, I apologize for my snide attitude. While I still agree with the OP in that I think there could be a better system that doesn't mean I have to display a bad attitude for those who like the current system especially as one poster already pointed out, my own ideas are far from perfect too.

Apology accepted. It's not that the system is perfect and can't be improved, it's that it is good and is providing a lot of people a place to play and have fun, even if it has flaws, and certainly, it shouldn't be just scrapped. If that happened, interest in recreational tennis in general would plummet, at least around here.

 

[dlk]

You have got to be kidding me. Dumb things down much?



People, please don't mention competitive and then make statements like this and the one above. Man, I can't imagine how quickly I would have been off the team if I'd displayed an attitude like this when I played baseball. Do you think it mattered when we played Univ of Mich that we weren't expected to win being a MAC team? We were expected to play to win, and further, it did not need to be expected, of course we would play to win. If we were playing the Detroit Tigers we would all go out expecting to win. Thank goodness Roddick doesn't have your mentality whenever he plays Federer.



EDIT*(sigh)*: Okay, as someone has just pointed out to me, I've been particularly in a foul mood the last couple of days. Upon reflection, I can see how this has been playing out in my posts, particularly in this thread. So to JRB and others, I apologize for my snide attitude. While I still agree with the OP in that I think there could be a better system that doesn't mean I have to display a bad attitude for those who like the current system especially as one poster already pointed out, my own ideas are far from perfect too.

Hey, it takes some maturity to apologize, especially to no one you know. So you certainly earned credibility with me. Thanks.

 

[Fugazi]

Sounds like you played some serious ball back in the hay-day too. I played for university of Ottawa back in the late 90's. Fun times.

I can relate to the girl friend /playing thing. I hit with my girl but we never play points. We play mixed together but never against each other. Just a unwritten rule we have. She played college tennis too in Boston so she's pretty competitive.

We use to play against each other but it usually ended with her walking off the court and calling me a mean SOB....heheh

However, if it's scrabble, (that we both suck at!) then it's gloves off.

Cheers man,

I grew up in NB so I can speak a little french.

Yeah I used to be pretty good. I was probably top 5 in Canada under 12, and still pretty competitive under 14 (around top 12). I'm 32 now, same year as J. R. (very dominant player from Quebec, won junior nationals and at least one junior slam in doubles) and S. L. (I think he was ranked top 3 in the NCAA one year and reached ATP top 200). Beat S. L. a few times under 12 and 14, got a set once against J. R. under 12. Things weren't so good after that, lots of injuries and just lack of motivation/improvement.

How about you?

Cheers

PS: I'm quite good at scrabble!

 

[DavaiMarat]

Yeah I used to be pretty good. I was probably top 5 in Canada under 12, and still pretty competitive under 14 (around top 12). I'm 32 now, same year as J. R. (very dominant player from Quebec, won junior nationals and at least one junior slam in doubles) and S. L. (I think he was ranked top 3 in the NCAA one year and reached ATP top 200). Beat S. L. a few times under 12 and 14, got a set once against J. R. under 12. Things weren't so good after that, lots of injuries and just lack of motivation/improvement.

How about you?

Cheers

PS: I'm quite good at scrabble!

Damn. Nice bro. You forgot S.L. Also won a gold medal with D.N. I'm going kick myself once you tell me who J.R. Is. Myself, I played tennis in N.B. So competition was soso. I was ranked in the province but nothing special. Didn't grow big enough, 5'8, but Im still pretty competitive. I taught for several years then played for u of O in late 90 s when I was doing my grad school. Won some local club tournaments around here yada yada...but its hard to find time to play the opens. Its all for fun these days. If you and D are ever In TO area looking for a hit well play some mixed. Well have as guests at our club. I'll send you my email.

Hehe now you have to tell me who JR is....

 

[Fugazi]

Damn. Nice bro. You forgot S.L. Also won a gold medal with D.N. I'm going kick myself once you tell me who J.R. Is. Myself, I played tennis in N.B. So competition was soso. I was ranked in the province but nothing special. Didn't grow big enough, 5'8, but Im still pretty competitive. I taught for several years then played for u of O in late 90 s when I was doing my grad school. Won some local club tournaments around here yada yada...but its hard to find time to play the opens. Its all for fun these days. If you and D are ever In TO area looking for a hit well play some mixed. Well have as guests at our club. I'll send you my email.

Hehe now you have to tell me who JR is....

No no, not this S. L.! Another one, a few years younger. Try Si. L. The other guy, J. R., won several nationals under 14, 16 and 18. He once won the under 16 and under 18 nationals in the very same week. He also won Wimbledon junior in doubles in 1996 (I just verified the info).

For the mixed doubles, it would be a pleasure, although I don't expect to go to TO any time soon.

Cheers

 

[pushing_wins]

Damn. Nice bro. You forgot S.L. Also won a gold medal with D.N. I'm going kick myself once you tell me who J.R. Is. Myself, I played tennis in N.B. So competition was soso. I was ranked in the province but nothing special. Didn't grow big enough, 5'8, but Im still pretty competitive. I taught for several years then played for u of O in late 90 s when I was doing my grad school. Won some local club tournaments around here yada yada...but its hard to find time to play the opens. Its all for fun these days. If you and D are ever In TO area looking for a hit well play some mixed. Well have as guests at our club. I'll send you my email.

Hehe now you have to tell me who JR is....

open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tennisisgood]

Can someone interpret the USTA league national championship results (below) and tell me if they affect your arguments?

https://www.usta.com/en/home/play/p...a-league-national-championships-results-.html

 

[GuyClinch]

I disagree with OP. Tennis levels NTRP are quite similar if we are talking computer rated NTRP guys on top teams. The championships/playoffs are all about which captains can cook the books better. That's the truth. Get guys who are legit 5.0 on your 4.0 teams - profit. That's why there is some strange geography going on..here and there.

How do you do that? Do things like convince teaching pros to play on your team - have them register as 4.0. I know a teaching pro who sheepishly admitted to doing this..

 

[Moveforwardalways]

NTRP is actually a pretty good system. The levels are more normalized than you would think. Is there variation? Sure. But not more than 0.5. A good 4.0C in a town of 500,000 is probably a low 4.0C in a city of 5 million. Why? Lots of reasons. Just due to shear numbers, sandbagging can explain that. But they are still a 4.0C. This is all normalized by cross regional competition. It's really closer than you would think.

 

[ChaelAZ]

All I know is that I agree with the whole "NTRP ratings are very vague" comment. I have seen a bunch of videos of different players proclaiming to be 4.0 and they all range from 3.0 to 5.0. It definitely DOES vary in regions as well.

I agree with all the above.

I have been lucky to play with a lot of people from different states, regions and countries, and ratings, or what they claim as ratings are all over the place. I hit with Jrs, high schoolers, league players, college players, and a few pros on challenger circuits. I never really listen much in the lower ratings up to people saying 5.0 or up. Most 4.0's with decent strokes can at least hit with higher players. Match play is where ratings matter a bit more.

 

[GuyClinch]

I have been lucky to play with a lot of people from different states, regions and countries, and ratings, or what they claim as ratings are all over the place. I hit with Jrs, high schoolers, league players, college players, and a few pros on challenger circuits. I never really listen much in the lower ratings up to people saying 5.0 or up. Most 4.0's with decent strokes can at least hit with higher players. Match play is where ratings matter a bit more.

These are hangers on - guys who don't play in leagues or tournaments and make up ratings because they play other guys who claim to be of some rating - even if those guys only claim that rating from some dubious source. League playing computer rated players are actually really consistent..IMHO. Put a 4.0 against a 3.5 - both with similar records (not a rising 3.5 who won all of his matches that year and is due to be bumped) and you get the 4.0 beating the 3.5 nearly every time. We are talking 90 out of 100 times here - its that good.

The difference is in results though - not in technique. I have seen 4.0s whose technique naively looks worse then 3.0s. But in match play - the 4.0 just seems to hit the right shot at the right time.. etc. Around 4.5 you see guys technique really start to straighten out. Generally speaking the 4.5s do most things right according to the naked eye.. They are not obviously weak in any area

 

[ChaelAZ]

Someone with an all or nothing attitude about sports doesn't understand the nature of competition. I won't ever play on the pro tour but that doesn't stop me from having fun playing and competing in recreational tournaments & leagues and trying to improve my game. I would hate to see what the tennis scene would be like without the USTA or its equivalent.

Too true and funny. When I started in 3.5 it was all fun and games. No one took themselves too serious. When I played 4.0 there were a few that got all uppity about themselves, but overall most were not too serious about themselves, but more serious about the competition. That is my sweet spot for play. I found playing up with 4.5+ league players, I swear nothing makes me laugh inside than a 30+ year old who still thinks they are going to Wimby, or they can compete at the highest levels, talking about top players like they are in the same class. It isn't that they just take the competition serious, but they take themselves too serious.

Anywho...I love and need competition, and understand the emotions that go with it. But there are those folks that you can't help but look sideways at, like, "Are they THAT serious?"

To each their own though.

 

[nothinButTennis]

...a really vague matching system developed by the USTA to help tennis players find other players of the same competitive level. Nothing more, nothing less. It's all relative to your region as well. A 4.5 in Nebraska would probably be a 3.5 in Florida. It all depends on your competition.

Even the guide to NTRP is flawed. People develop in tennis in so many ways. Some are more mentally tough, some beat you with their stamina, some with their technique and everything in between.

Basing how good a player is based on a video and NTRP is just silly. However it's the only system we've got. I'd rather look at rankings and results, the french CHESS-ELO system is a good for this.

Why do you think the specifications for 5.0 + start to get so vague. That's right, your results will determine how good you are. We're so brained-washed by TV tennis we thing anything less than a 75mph forehand must be a 2.5-3.0. I personally think a system based on points not some silly made up rating should determine your skill.

Just my humble opinion,

Cheers,

On the other hand, these NTRP-How good are they? posts are good for creating drama and conflict. Fun to watch!

Agree, Rating are purely based on Match play (Result) and not based on style.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Agree, Rating are purely based on Match play (Result) and not based on style.

The problem with only using ranking based on match play is that it eliminates non-league players from a rating system. How does someone in Canada know who he can play with in a social match down in Palm Desert? The club there asks you your NTRP rating. You could either respond with "I don't know, I don't play USTA leagues." or you could reply, "Based on the NTRP scale you have printed on your office wall, I'd be a 3.5 level player". Which response do you think would get me a fairer match?

There is a necessity for a descriptive rating scale to identify your level of tennis skill, as flawed as it may seem. Despite never playing in USTA, going around describing myself as a 3.5 has never failed me finding a competitive match. There is value to this system as long as people fairly apply it to themselves. I find most people do in general.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Too true and funny. When I started in 3.5 it was all fun and games. No one took themselves too serious. When I played 4.0 there were a few that got all uppity about themselves, but overall most were not too serious about themselves, but more serious about the competition. That is my sweet spot for play. I found playing up with 4.5+ league players, I swear nothing makes me laugh inside than a 30+ year old who still thinks they are going to Wimby, or they can compete at the highest levels, talking about top players like they are in the same class. It isn't that they just take the competition serious, but they take themselves too serious.

Anywho...I love and need competition, and understand the emotions that go with it. But there are those folks that you can't help but look sideways at, like, "Are they THAT serious?"

To each their own though.

After 4.5 it goes back the other way. The best rec players usually don't take themselves too seriously.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

After 4.5 it goes back the other way. The best rec players usually don't take themselves too seriously.

that's because we've gotten our butts kicked by folks so-much-better-than-we-will-ever-be, that we realize in the grand scheme of things while we might have a decent serve or fh that took years to master, it's really not that good (compared to future/current/ex elite college/pro folks).

i remember when i first started "dominating" my local band of public court hackers (think high 3.5's), because i learned how to hit a topspin serve (stopped double faulting!) and had a decent fh (it was a horrible hawaiian heavy topspin shot good to bother 3.5's), i thought i was great (king of the court!).. then i played usta, and recall "playing up" in a 4.0 league... and i got drubbed.

most humbling was being a 4.0, and playing a couple up and coming 12y old girls (one ended up playing a top d1, one is currently on tour), and getting beat by them both.

i think they egos you see on the public courts or private clubs, come from folks that don't put themselves out there (tuornaments, leagues, etc...) and are used to being a big fish in a little pond.

opposite experience... ran into one guy at my club... was hitting great, i told him i was only a 4.5, but asked if he wanted to hit.. his response, "sure i'll hit with anyone.. just came off the tour, and still recovering from injury, but in a couple weeks, give me call". talk about humble.

 

[ChaelAZ]

After 4.5 it goes back the other way.

Yeah, that is probably the sweet spot for it. Most the college players I hit with who actually have opportunities to be something are more self-deprecating that higher level recreation players. The 35+ open Nationals was just a few weeks ago at our club and I was BS with some of the guys and almost all of them are stand up folks with no chip.

Maybe at 4.5 they get a glimpse of playing well they don't realize how far they still are away.

 

[ChaelAZ]

most humbling was being a 4.0, and playing a couple up and coming 12y old girls (one ended up playing a top d1, one is currently on tour), and getting beat by them both.

lol. I will have to do a video of the Jrs I hit with. I know this all too well!

 

[Noveson]

Yeah, that is probably the sweet spot for it. Most the college players I hit with who actually have opportunities to be something are more self-deprecating that higher level recreation players. The 35+ open Nationals was just a few weeks ago at our club and I was BS with some of the guys and almost all of them are stand up folks with no chip.

Maybe at 4.5 they get a glimpse of playing well they don't realize how far they still are away.

I think it's because you eventually just get humbled. I remember playing Johnathon Stark in the Nike tournament here in Portland a few years ago. The dude has to be 45+ years old. He made me feel like I was playing at 3/4 speed and he was playing at normal speed. Was definitely a slap in the face. Didn't hit the ball ungodly hard or anything, just always felt like he had all the time in the world.

 

[Chadillac]

The problem with only using ranking based on match play is that it eliminates non-league players from a rating system. How does someone in Canada know who he can play with in a social match down in Palm Desert? The club there asks you your NTRP rating. You could either respond with "I don't know, I don't play USTA leagues." or you could reply, "Based on the NTRP scale you have printed on your office wall, I'd be a 3.5 level player". Which response do you think would get me a fairer match?

A 3.5 in one part of the world isnt going to be a 3.5 in the other parts. Thats one of the negatives with their new system, its great for local play but doesnt really translate when you go state/nationals

 

[user92626]

^^^^^^
Nice post.

That said, the NTRP rating system at least provides insecure players with a mechanism by which they can "sandbag" in USTA league play and/or USTA-sanctioned tournaments.......and you chumps know who you are. ;-)

I agree with the OP, but your mentioning of "sandbag" kinda negates the whole thesis of the OP.

So basing on NTRP, a 4.5 would beat a 3.5 just about 99.98% of time.
In this case NTRP is very accurate and useful.

 

[user92626]

That's ridiculous. Just because we suck doesn't mean we shouldn't have some sort of organized competition to compete in. Does winning a 4.0 league mean anything in the bigger picture? Of course not, but it's not the meaning of the prize in the annals of tennis history that matters, it's the meaning of the prize to the people competing for it that matters.

I agree with you.

mtommer is speaking nonsense!

Where prize, tournament isn't available, competition also allows you to gauge where you are comparing with your peers in physical and mental prowess.

 

[Dartagnan64]

A 3.5 in one part of the world isnt going to be a 3.5 in the other parts. Thats one of the negatives with their new system, its great for local play but doesnt really translate when you go state/nationals

They may not, but they'll be close enough for a competitive match. I can't recall having someone tell me they were 3.5 and then totally outclass me or be outclassed by myself. But all I use NTRP is for setting up social matches when I travel or meet new club members. I'd rather have a person tell me their NTRP reading by the written guidelines than their computer match generated USTA rating. The computer system is really an anti-sandbagging tool. We don't have such system in Canada and everyone just rates based on the descriptors and we have a grand old time playing competitive matches.
Admittedly just having beginner-intermediate-advanced is probably good enough to find matches.

 

[GuyClinch]

A 3.5 in one part of the world isnt going to be a 3.5 in the other parts. Thats one of the negatives with their new system, its great for local play but doesnt really translate when you go state/nationals

Translates fine. They can use things newfangle concepts of math and modern machines like computers - and so it actually does translate. Sure not everyone can play everyone - but they have nationals and playoffs.

This means some guy in SC might not have played a guy in texas. But he lost 7-6 to a guy who went to the playoffs in SC and he lost to a guy who played in the region playoffs and so on and so forth.

This means with enough match play they get a pretty good handle on what a 3.5 is. But again this ONLY work if a guy plays in a league and he plays enough matches against other computer rated players..

The reason people think it doesn't work is they either don't understand math - or they don't actually play any computer rated players. They just play a random assortment of guys who CLAIM they are at various levels.

This absolutely doesn't work. A 'craiglist' 4.5 is sometimes a 3.0 in league play..