Pat Rafter, last human pinball wizard at net.

[Ted Ghost Shackley]

Pat Rafter was the last true serve and volleyer to win a Slam. He was a human pinball at net; it was almost painful to watch. Rafter retired early as the mental and physical grind was too much.

The new string technology (Luxilon et al.) have helped passing shots and hurt volleying. There are some giants like Max "The Beast" who can serve and volley on the ATP, but I see Rafter as the last champion to play the style, barring changes in the racquet and string technology, balls, or surfaces.

Rafter could not play his game and win majors with today's string technology. Anyone see a true serve and volleyer winning another slam?

 

[federerfanatic]

The true serve-volleyers today are just not that good. Mario Ancic is probably the best one left and he isnt all that great or anything. Max Mirnyi, aging Jonas Bjorkman, Ivo Karlovic? The quality today is all in the baseliners, or to a lesser extent the arguably "all courters" like Federer. I do think if a true quality serve-volleyer, even one of Rafter caliber emerges they could atleast win 1 or 2 slams, as he won 2 in his prime. If a truly great one like Edberg, Sampras, or Becker emerged they could win multiple slams even in todays game, especialy when Feddy boy retires. The current serve-volley players are just not of that high a standard, no disrespect.

 

[Ted Ghost Shackley]

I have been told that Rafter has said that he could not play his game today as the passing shots are too tough. The new strings generate so much spin that big shots can dip too severely at the net and acute angles can be hit by most players.

Conversely, these strings have less touch and make it harder to volley. I enjoy a contrast of styles and would like to see another McEnroe, Edberg or Rafter competing with the baseliners and all too rare all-courters like Fed.

 

[Andres]

Conversely, these strings have less touch and make it harder to volley. I enjoy a contrast of styles and would like to see another McEnroe, Edberg or Rafter competing with the baseliners and all too rare all-courters like Fed.

He can still avoid Luxilon, you know? And play with some good ol' nat gut

 

[Dark Victory]

The true serve-volleyers today are just not that good. Mario Ancic is probably the best one left and he isnt all that great or anything. Max Mirnyi, Ivo Karlovic?

Agreed.

As a S&V'er, Ancic is nowhere near someone like, say, Krajicek, who share the same height and big serve he does. Same goes for Ivo. And it's players like them (guys who have the height and cannonball serves to make S&V'ing a lot easier) who are in the best position to do so. It's true that technology and slower surfaces make volleying a lot more difficult nowadays. But even so, I still think it's possible to compete with that style given the right tools and talent.

 

[Ted Ghost Shackley]

He can still avoid Luxilon, you know? And play with some good ol' nat gut

I meant that guys like Roddick, who use Luxilon in the mains, will have trouble developing feel at the net. Federer uses gut in the mains, which gives him better feel at net. Rafter would probably still use gut if he was in his prime today, but too many guys hit huge spin for him to play his game.

 

[prosealster]

I meant that guys like Roddick, who use Luxilon in the mains, will have trouble developing feel at the net. Federer uses gut in the mains, which gives him better feel at net. Rafter would probably still use gut if he was in his prime today, but too many guys hit huge spin for him to play his game.

That's right.... he can choose what string he want to use...but he can't stop what other choose to use..... As much as I love Rafter, he would not be as successful today... just look at the passing shots the players are hitting....with regularity.....The reasons why there are less quality volleyers today is that the pros and their coaches knows what strategy they have to play in order to win... and that's predominately from baseline, and only come in on really decent approaches...but some how, some 3.0 hacks on the board thinks they know more about tennis than the pros or their coaches

 

[!Tym]

That's right.... he can choose what string he want to use...but he can't stop what other choose to use..... As much as I love Rafter, he would not be as successful today... just look at the passing shots the players are hitting....with regularity.....The reasons why there are less quality volleyers today is that the pros and their coaches knows what strategy they have to play in order to win... and that's predominately from baseline, and only come in on really decent approaches...but some how, some 3.0 hacks on the board thinks they know more about tennis than the pros or their coaches

Um, actually, I don't that's totally true. Mostly, I think more so than string or racket technology, I think the biggest reason by far that no one tries to develop or play serve and volley these days is that they've slowed the courts down almost univerisally everywhere you go. It's quite noticeable. The 90s was in my opinion largely the era of big boy servers, all-court, attacking players, and the media complaining that the points only last like two seconds indoors and on grass. I mean you really notice watching the old masters on tape from the early 90s, I mean the ball shot through the court like lightning compared to now...AND they stayed low. A guy like Berasategui basically had NO chance whatsoever to be even *remotely* competitive when he played the masters as a result. Yes, I know he was a clay court specialist, but he was still dangerous outside clay, but at that year ending masters he was barely lucky to even put up a few games.

People may not remember, but there was A LOT of talk back then about the game being totally unfair to baseliners, that guys like Ivanisevic, Sampras, Becker, Rosset, Krajicek, Stich, etc. were ruining the game. That blah, blah, blah, points only last one or two seconds, the fans are bored, the fans want to see long-drawn out points, the fans want a rhythm to a match, it's not fair!, etc.

Fast forward, a decade plus and now they've made indoor surfaces so grainy and the grass an entirely new breed such that it's really an entirely different scenario. Now, the game favors baseliners too much, and you've got the old guard of big servers/net rushers, I think it was Rusedski, who cry no fair!-wa!-they're ruining the game!

Lol, you can't have it both ways.

With that said, I think the current conditions actually favor Federer the most. His game is such a perfect hybrid. He's a tremendous baseliner, yet with EVERYONE playing at the baseline these days, he's also got that little extra element called "all-court" tennis up his sleeves. This gives him that little extra edge to differentiate him from the host of other players with great groundies these days...i.e. a whole lot less of the middling, middle of the pack, serve and volleyers like Jason Stoltenberg and Brett Stevens and Byron Shelton and Jared Palmer types these days. Now those "types," i.e. RUN-OF-THE-MILL versions of the superstar big server and serve and volleyers of that era...have been replaced by their run-of-the mill baseliner equivalents these days.

 

[prosealster]

Um, actually, I don't that's totally true. Mostly, I think more so than string or racket technology, I think the biggest reason by far that no one tries to develop or play serve and volley these days is that they've slowed the courts down almost univerisally everywhere you go. It's quite noticeable. The 90s was in my opinion largely the era of big boy servers, all-court, attacking players, and the media complaining that the points only last like two seconds indoors and on grass. I mean you really notice watching the old masters on tape from the early 90s, I mean the ball shot through the court like lightning compared to now...AND they stayed low. A guy like Berasategui basically had NO chance whatsoever to be even *remotely* competitive when he played the masters as a result. Yes, I know he was a clay court specialist, but he was still dangerous outside clay, but at that year ending masters he was barely lucky to even put up a few games.

People may not remember, but there was A LOT of talk back then about the game being totally unfair to baseliners, that guys like Ivanisevic, Sampras, Becker, Rosset, Krajicek, Stich, etc. were ruining the game. That blah, blah, blah, points only last one or two seconds, the fans are bored, the fans want to see long-drawn out points, the fans want a rhythm to a match, it's not fair!, etc.

Fast forward, a decade plus and now they've made indoor surfaces so grainy and the grass an entirely new breed such that it's really an entirely different scenario. Now, the game favors baseliners too much, and you've got the old guard of big servers/net rushers, I think it was Rusedski, who cry no fair!-wa!-they're ruining the game!

Lol, you can't have it both ways.

With that said, I think the current conditions actually favor Federer the most. His game is such a perfect hybrid. He's a tremendous baseliner, yet with EVERYONE playing at the baseline these days, he's also got that little extra element called "all-court" tennis up his sleeves. This gives him that little extra edge to differentiate him from the host of other players with great groundies these days...i.e. a whole lot less of the middling, middle of the pack, serve and volleyers like Jason Stoltenberg and Brett Stevens and Byron Shelton and Jared Palmer types these days. Now those "types," i.e. RUN-OF-THE-MILL versions of the superstar big server and serve and volleyers of that era...have been replaced by their run-of-the mill baseliner equivalents these days.

Oh yeah i agree... sorry I forgot to mention the slow conditions these days... basically what I want to say is that we don't see S&V not coz there is lack of talented players to do so... it's the current conditions stoping this strategy from being successful.. hence no one is going to devote the majority of their practice time on something that is not going to pay off..even if you have a time machine and bring Rafter, Goran, Kraicek etc...they won't be as successful