Powerful Rackets for Juniors a Good Idea?

I keep hearing many so called "experts" claim that top junior players shouldn't play with the powerful rackets and that they should only play with the so called "player rackets." My son is a top ranked national player in the B14s and he plays with one of the Wilson Triads. This racket is very powerful, but he can control it and because of the dampeners in the racket it's actually a lot easier on the arm. Moreover, Roddick uses the Blue Babalot which is very powerful so how bad can it be if he can control it with his great power.

It seems to me that when one looks at the history of professional tennis tour starting with Jimmy Connors pioneering the Wilson T2000 and dominating everyone else who couldn't control that racket, and now with the newer wide body rackets, the players who were able to control the most powerful rackets throughout history and technology development were the ones who succeeded. If you read Bil Scanlon's book "Bad News for McEnroe" he talks about how when the new rackets came out in the 1980's all the pros, including him, tried to dismiss them as only for "club players" but he admits that the players who grew up with wood rackets never learned to control the more powerful graphite rackets and that's why they invariably had no choice but to stick with wood and they quickly blown off the tour by the younger players like Becker who grew up with the powerful rackets and that's why they could control them. It was almost impossible to switch rackets when you're in your 20's. Scanlon also believes that McEnroe couldn't come back because he couldn't control the new technology and that he would have lasted a lot longer at the top of the tour if he could have adapted to the new rackets. Scanlon also points out that Sampras kept using that smaller headed pro staff, not because it was so great, but because he grew up with a similar racket and couldn't switch to something much different later on, particularly since he was successful with that racket.

Some local pros tell me that kids should start with the low power rackets in order to learn how to hit the ball "properly" and then they can switch to power later on. But all these local pros never switch themselves to the more powerful racket as adults even though they claim that they now have the proper stroke; and the reason they don't switch is that they can't control the more powerful rackets even if they tried. Their so called proper swing is apparently not proper for the more powerful rackets.

Don't get me wrong, if a junior is simply getting sloppy and lazy and trying to use the racket's power while hitting the stroke incorrrectly, then this is a problem. However, my son has excellent strokes modeled after someone like Agassi.

I'd like to hear others weigh in on this. So far, no has convinced me that I am wrong, but I'm open to hearing other opinions.
 

Slash

New User
just for a heads up, vibe dampeners dont reduce shock to the arm. it just simply reduces the shock that can create a louder noise.

but anyways. powerful rackets are good for the development of your groundstrokes but sooner or later you may have to switch to player rackets to compete in the bigger leagues. just imagine power rackets as training wheels. if you want to go a lot faster, you will eventually have to drop the wheels.
 
Thanks for your quick reply, Slash. I didn't realize the distinction about dampeners only reducing the shock that creates a louder noise. All I know is that they feel a lot easier on my arm also.

With regard to your analogy regarding the training wheels; this sounds like another one of those myths. I'm in my 40's and I'm a 5.0 player using the most powerful racket in existence, the Wilson T2 and I prefer this racket to any. It doesn't feel like "training wheels"; it feels like an advantage that should continue to be an advantage in power so long as I can control it. If I switched to a players racket I believe I would play like a 4.0 or 4.5. Sorry, but not interested.

Also, Andy Roddick is using the Blue Babalot which is considered to be extremely powerful and not a so-called "players racket". His 150 MPH serves seem pretty advanced for a guy using "training wheels". Under your logic, must he now switch to Federer's twig racket and reduce his serve to 135 MPH just so guys like you won't ridicule him for using "training wheels"?

Thanks for your effors, but I'm still waiting for a good argument.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
i would nt put any credence in anything Scanlon sez..he seems to be an angry bitter dude and mcenroe seemed to have converted to graphite about the same time many of the other pros did..he always just seemed to enjoy something very flexy strung loosly which can make for a powerful setup anyway
as to what racquet a junior should use....my standard rule of thumb is that a player should use the heaviest frame he/she can swing fast for as long as the sessions last when he is playing someone of equal or better ability. forcing a junior to use a players frame saying they will grow into it or it forces you to use proper mechanics is just absolute nonsense and can cause injury and can also cause bad mechanics rathe rthan good as they may develop bad technique in an effort to swing something too heavy for them fast. this from a long time teaching pro.
 

Slash

New User
Orson Welles said:
Thanks for your quick reply, Slash. I didn't realize the distinction about dampeners only reducing the shock that creates a louder noise. All I know is that they feel a lot easier on my arm also.

With regard to your analogy regarding the training wheels; this sounds like another one of those myths. I'm in my 40's and I'm a 5.0 player using the most powerful racket in existence, the Wilson T2 and I prefer this racket to any. It doesn't feel like "training wheels"; it feels like an advantage that should continue to be an advantage in power so long as I can control it. If I switched to a players racket I believe I would play like a 4.0 or 4.5. Sorry, but not interested.

Also, Andy Roddick is using the Blue Babalot which is considered to be extremely powerful and not a so-called "players racket". His 150 MPH serves seem pretty advanced for a guy using "training wheels". Under your logic, must he now switch to Federer's twig racket and reduce his serve to 135 MPH just so guys like you won't ridicule him for using "training wheels"?

Thanks for your effors, but I'm still waiting for a good argument.
but no, andy isnt using a full power racket. hes just using a racket with a blend of control and power. and in tennnis, just because you have power doesnt mean you will win. who won between pete and andy? how many times has andy beaten roger?

if you feel you want to upgrade your sons racket, bump his racket up to a tweener.
 
Slash, good point about power not being everything. Agreed. But, all things being equal the more powerful player will win so long as everything else is equal. I don't believe I give up any control or finesse by using a powerful racket. Roddick's problem is that he has nothing but power and this is pretty much only on his serve. His serve is out of this world, but his backhand sucks, his volley sucks and his forehand is highly overrated, particularly since he often blasts the forehand from way behind the baseline and often mishits it or hits with too much spin due to his dreadful Western grip. My problem with your logic is that you seem to imply that if you put Federer's racket in Roddick's hand then all of a sudden Andy would have a volley, a backhand, touch, finesse and he would become graceful. The lower power racket won't help him with those things it will just reduce his power which will hurt him. The other problem I have with your (and other's) logic is that it implies that by definition lower power means better feel and control and I don't think this is necessarily a correct and automatic premise. If you handed Federer Roddick's racket, SO LONG AS HE COULD CONTROL IT, it might help him because he would gain power and more free points with his serve without losing control because that was my premise. The reality is that Federer probably wouldn't be interested in Roddick's racket because he probably can't control it because he didn't grow up using such a powerful racket.

Your comment about Roddick's racket not being a "full power racket" is well taken, but aren't we splitting hairs here? The advice people usually give juniors is to stay away from any power racket which isn't a "player's racket" and they specifically mention Roddick's blue Babalot as a racket to stay away from as being too powerful which is absurd since Roddick used it to get to Number 1 in the world and he is the most powerful player in history so how could that racket be too powerful for any kid!

By the way, this term "player's racket" is really a misnomer. Some racket manufacturers decided to coin that term for whatever reason.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
andy doesnt beat roger cuz roger is a far better tennis player. andy didnt beat samps because samps was a far better tennis player. lots of advanced players are using so called 'tweeners', 'game improvement frames' and even 'granny sticks'. and you can certainly learn good technique with a lighter racquet or a racquet that isnt a so called 'players racquet'..why not take advantage of the technology..many of the pros are..people say players racquets force you to not be lazy..if you have not the discipline to move your feet and do the racquet work because you are swinging something lighter than you are a pretty lousy tennis player on top of lacking discipline..bah
Diaclaimer: This is not a personal attack on anyone lacking discipline, anyone using a players frame, or anyone who is a lousy tenns player, their heirs or their parents ;O
 
"why not take advantage of the technology..many of the pros are..people say players racquets force you to not be lazy..if you have not the discipline to move your feet and do the racquet work because you are swinging something lighter than you are a pretty lousy tennis player on top of lacking discipline."

Thank you so much for that statement NoBad. I couldn't have said it any better. Amen.

P.S. I'd be curious to know if you know which pros are using the power rackets.
 

Slash

New User
there are many factors about choosing a racquet. its not just about power and control. if you feel you want to keep your son with the power rackets then thats cool. all im saying is that you should change his racket to a tweener because as he advances even more, there is already enough power and he will have a really tough time. ya i made a mistake about changing his racket to a player but the main point i was trying to get to was he should at least change to a tweener one time or another. he wont get far if he wishes to be a pro. and yes kids should stay away from the pure drive + because many people are having arm problems.
 

RafaN RichardG

Semi-Pro
Orson Welles said:
"why not take advantage of the technology..many of the pros are..people say players racquets force you to not be lazy..if you have not the discipline to move your feet and do the racquet work because you are swinging something lighter than you are a pretty lousy tennis player on top of lacking discipline."

Thank you so much for that statement NoBad. I couldn't have said it any better. Amen.

P.S. I'd be curious to know if you know which pros are using the power rackets.

depends what you consider a power racquet...
but the W. sisters tend to use more powerful racquets and they have no prob controlling it. however they probably have custom specs, but may just like the big frames, and possibly the light weight.
wilson n3(serena)
wilson n4 OS(Venus)
also david ferrer is said to be using the prince shark DB midplus which is a powerful racquet- you can check it out at princetennis.com
and maria sharapova uses either a prince hornet, or a shark- not sure there are rumors about a paintjob or whatever, anyways both are pretty powerful
jan michael gambill uses a shark...
 
"all im saying is that you should change his racket to a tweener because as he advances even more, there is already enough power and he will have a really tough time....he should at least change to a tweener one time or another. he wont get far if he wishes to be a pro. and yes kids should stay away from the pure drive + because many people are having arm problems"

Thanks for your message, Slash. I know that you're only trying to help me and that you mean well. But again, I don't understand the logic. First of all, what do you mean by "already having enough power." If his serve is 120 MPH, but the more powerful racket will bring it to 150 MPH, why wouldn't I want to go to 150 MPH, so long as he can control it?! As NoBad points out, why not use the best technology available?! You make it sound like it's cheating or something.

And, your caution that kids must stay away from the pure drive because of injuries sounds like Mary Carillo and many other so called experts advising that Andy Roddick needs to change his motion because he will hurt his arm. You probably would have advised Andy to change his motion and stay away from the Pure Drive so that he won't get injurred. Here he is hitting 150 MPH with no injuries in sight and he reached number one in the world. If he listened to you, he'd be hitting 115 mph with all the other journeymen and he'd be ranked 201 on the ATP, but I guess he would feel great that he listened to a guy named "Slash" on Tenniswarehouse.com but Slash won't be paying his bills.
 

mrgonzo

New User
Orson Welles said:
"all im saying is that you should change his racket to a tweener because as he advances even more, there is already enough power and he will have a really tough time....he should at least change to a tweener one time or another. he wont get far if he wishes to be a pro. and yes kids should stay away from the pure drive + because many people are having arm problems"

Thanks for your message, Slash. I know that you're only trying to help me and that you mean well. But again, I don't understand the logic. First of all, what do you mean by "already having enough power." If his serve is 120 MPH, but the more powerful racket will bring it to 150 MPH, why wouldn't I want to go to 150 MPH, so long as he can control it?! As NoBad points out, why not use the best technology available?! You make it sound like it's cheating or something.

And, your caution that kids must stay away from the pure drive because of injuries sounds like Mary Carillo and many other so called experts advising that Andy Roddick needs to change his motion because he will hurt his arm. You probably would have advised Andy to change his motion and stay away from the Pure Drive so that he won't get injurred. Here he is hitting 150 MPH with no injuries in sight and he reached number one in the world. If he listened to you, he'd be hitting 115 mph with all the other journeymen and he'd be ranked 201 on the ATP, but I guess he would feel great that he listened to a guy named "Slash" on Tenniswarehouse.com but Slash won't be paying his bills.
I agree that kids should have a powerful racket as long as they can control it
 

Slash

New User
im not sure if you have looked at this but here is a helpful page from tennis-warehouse then you might understand what i see as power rackets. im tired at the moment and i dont have the energy to try to explain my logic. and what i meant about the pure drive comment is that you wouldnt want to give beginners or little kids a pure drive + as a starters racket because they havent adapted to the vibration of tennis. when your son first started, you wouldnt string his racket at 63 lbs would you? you wouldnt pick out strings that would be rough on his arm would you? if you would then he would have some bad tennis elbow.
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/SelectingRacquet/SelectingRacquet.html
 

nViATi

Hall of Fame
Orson Welles said:
And, your caution that kids must stay away from the pure drive because of injuries sounds like Mary Carillo and many other so called experts advising that Andy Roddick needs to change his motion because he will hurt his arm. You probably would have advised Andy to change his motion and stay away from the Pure Drive so that he won't get injurred. Here he is hitting 150 MPH with no injuries in sight and he reached number one in the world. If he listened to you, he'd be hitting 115 mph with all the other journeymen and he'd be ranked 201 on the ATP, but I guess he would feel great that he listened to a guy named "Slash" on Tenniswarehouse.com but Slash won't be paying his bills.
Well Andy Roddick is a pro and he has the strokes and the ability to hit the exact sweetspot every time and the correct strokes so he won't kill his arm.
Can any of us say that we are as good as him?
 

Slash

New User
mrgonzo said:
I agree that kids should have a powerful racket as long as they can control it
i agree too. i highly recommend that kids should start out with power rackets but they shouldnt stick with power/beginners racket as they progress really far.
 

Slash

New User
nViATi said:
Well Andy Roddick is a pro and he has the strokes and the ability to hit the exact sweetspot every time and the correct strokes so he won't kill his arm.
Can any of us say that we are as good as him?
thats exactly what i was trying to get at. beginners dont have the skill to hit dead on at the sweet spot everytime so when they hit at some other part, they will have some bad shock to the elbow.
 

cheecl

New User
You are all forgetting the most important thing...the one using the racquet. Let your son try different racquets to see what he likes. You may be surprised by what he has to tell you about the racquect..technology or not. At the end of the day, he has to play with a racquet that he feels comfortable and confident with.
 

Z-Man

Professional
I didn't have talent or intense coaching when I was a kid, but I think the Wilson Profile stunted my tennis growth. It was so powerful, it caused me to be tentative and push the ball. If your kid can control a tweener, there's no shame in playing with one. It might actually take more skill to control a tweener if you have a full swing (think about those swing index numbers illustrated on the racquet paperwork).

In an earlier similar thread, someone pointed out that each player has a bell curve. Weight and flex add power and control until the curve peaks--then they are detrimental.
 
Slash said:
i agree too. ...kids should start out with power rackets but they shouldnt stick with power/beginners racket...

Again, I'm waiting for a logical reason. All I ever hear from you is stuff like: "they should do this" or "they should do this" or "they won't go far" or they "should stay away from that" without any logical reason behind it other than repeating old adages. I know that tenniswarehouse and other racket manufacturers repeat these slogan and draw conclusions without any logic behind them and you just keep repeating them blindly like a parrot. NoBadMojo already blew you out of the water and so I have I but you still continue to repeat slogans that are not based on logic. I suggest that you re-read NoBadMojo's most recent post as well as all of mine and ask yourself if you are refuting us. No wonder that your brain is getting tired trying to answer, because no one has a logical answer and that's my point.
 

cheecl

New User
Categories(Player's/Tweeners/Game Improvement) are put in by Vendors and Manufacturers to make it easier for them to sell the racquets. It helps most buyers to quickly zoom in on a category and decide on the racquet to buy. The basic attributes of a racquet is it's weight(both static/swing and distribution), stiffness, head size and material. It's OK to use technology as long as you can use it EFFECTIVELY.

But as with most things in life, there is always a balance. This is true with racquets POWER/CONTROL. The objective is to find a racquet that you can be comfortable with...in both areas.

The only way is to test it...forget about the marketing hype and labels.
 

GOOOOOGA

Rookie
im 15, and i play USTA, was playing well in tourneys but now im slumping. the reason? part of it is that im just in a slump. the other part- i just dont like my Babolat Pure Drive anymore. it lacks touch, feel, control. i bet you that your son (nationally ranked in B14) will feel the same as me in a year or two. as you improve your tennis game, you become pickier and pickier, you want to feel in control of everything you do.

i've hit with and talked to a guy who used to go to my school (he would be top 150 nationally in Boys 18 if it weren't for a rotator cuff injury). he said his game was going NOWHERE when he was 13 or 14, he used a racquet, forgot which one, head size like 98, weight around 10.1, 10.2 oz. he had been winning consistently in B14, but once he tried B16, he just kept on losing. so he just wanted some change, went out and tried out a Wilson PS 6.0 85- which is pretty much the exact opposite of any "tweener"- and stuck with it. its a very unforgiving frame, very little power, all of it is generated by the player. but he said that it helped him incredibly. his game changed from a baseline game to a more flexible version (a bit of S&V, great defense, great weapon in his forehand).

im not here raving about this guy, im just trying to say that eventually your son'll want more from that racquet, the Wilson Triad. with its large head and low weight, power is plenty, control is lacking. im SURPRISED that he's gotten that far with the Triad. at the top levels of junior tennis in the US, consistency is a MUST. and the older he gets, the more hard hitting AND the more consistent his opponents'll be. he can crush the ball with his Triad, but they'll be doing the same damage with a 12 oz frame. placement over power. that explains roddick's inability to play on clay. at those high levels of tennis, players dont want to hit HARDER than their opponent, they want to hit the ball where the opponent cant get it back
 

Slash

New User
Orson Welles said:
Again, I'm waiting for a logical reason. All I ever hear from you is stuff like: "they should do this" or "they should do this" or "they won't go far" or they "should stay away from that" without any logical reason behind it other than repeating old adages. I know that tenniswarehouse and other racket manufacturers repeat these slogan and draw conclusions without any logic behind them and you just keep repeating them blindly like a parrot. NoBadMojo already blew you out of the water and so I have I but you still continue to repeat slogans that are not based on logic. I suggest that you re-read NoBadMojo's most recent post as well as all of mine and ask yourself if you are refuting us. No wonder that your brain is getting tired trying to answer, because no one has a logical answer and that's my point.
yes its hard trying to convince someone who has never taken physics.
 

anirut

Legend
Why not let your son demo some rackets that he likes? String them all with the same type and brand of string with the same tension. That way he can have a 'controlled' demo.

You can then observe his game and listen to his feed back. Your son may not understand the string tension + racket flex combination, yet. You can help a lot in this matter. Just make sure he likes the racket he chooses and plays well-worth the investment.

As we all know, "One man's meat is another man's poison."

My 0.02.
 

Michelangelo

Professional
Just keep your mind open to try something new, but stay with what you're happy with. We need power, speed and accuracy for the game. That's it. No need to argue.
 

ptuananh

Rookie
Well, you need some logics, I will give you.
Simply think about it. You are driving a car and you are coming to a 90 degree corner. If you are driving at 120 km/h, could you turn properly without crashing your car? What you are trying to do is find out what the appropriate speed that you could turn your car beautifully :) and save the petrol. That is the point. It is a blend of control and power. The less power the more control you have. If you could control a powerful racket, reduce your own power when you want to control the ball for example, it is the best ever in the world. Because you save a lot of energy and still push your oppenents around. Unfortunately, not every player can do that so they choose a more control oriented stick then they will use their own power when needed.
In conclusion, it is your own flavour. Try it, feel it and make a decision for yourself. Again, if you can control a powerful racket then YOU ARE THE BEST.
 

ptuananh

Rookie
I am not a so-called expert, but I think juniors are young and strong enough to generate their own power. Then they should practise how to control the ball effectively, passing shots, crossing shot, drop shots, half volleys for example. When it is in your blood, it is free to select a racket of your choice whether it is powerful or not.
 
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