Question for Nadal and Djokovic fans

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The Pats are very cerebral and do have the best coach in the game. It seems you've picked up much about the game in a short period of time.

I'm trying really hard to learn the game and will only follow the next season with even more verve.

 

[metsman]

He also picked up a good enough skill set to win big earlier than Federer and Djokovic, so he was first in both areas. Just because he picked it up first though doesn't mean he picked it up best, and we can argue that Federer's more speculative approach to the game gave him more options which took longer to put together. Basic point being that players can take very different paths that lead to very similar levels of proficiency and what we may view as talent. I agree with you though on him being the most physically gifted, though not sure it will lead to the longevity that Federer and Djokovic have and could have. Perhaps Djokovic's best day is not as impressive in the raw athletic sense but his litheness and flexibility might work in the long run.

I don't think his skillset was much bigger than Federer's at a similar age but his physical and mental capabilities(although the 2 are often interlocked) were far above a teen Fed's which made those skills actually applicable in a match setting...hence winning.

 

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I don't think his skillset was much bigger than Federer's at a similar age but his physical and mental capabilities(although the 2 are often interlocked) were far above a teen Fed's which made those skills actually applicable in a match setting...hence winning.

I agree with that, just that even at 17-18 Nadal's forehand was scarily developed, but obviously his fast physical maturation helped him with that, as it was a forehand predicated on ridiculous racket head speed and explosiveness. He probably had equal or less skills than Federer at similarly young ages (in the skills sense not the mental sense) but his athleticism allowed him to quickly develop a skill that was already hugely potent. So yeah.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

i never said talent can be defined, I said it can be narrowed down to the context of a sport. "Player X is talented at a certain sport" But for athleticism people don't narrow it down like that.

I agree Westbrook is more athletic than Brady because there is a massive mental aspect to being a quaterback which I think you can safely say isn't an athletic skill (along with a very specifically biomechanical one but that alone isn't enough to put Brady above Westbook, who is significantly stronger, faster and more explosive) but surely you have to realize the amount of misconception that there has to be for many people to think that Westbrook is more athletic than LeBron.

I think RW is the most athletic player in the NBA. Lebron is bigger, stronger, and with better basketball skills. Why is that wrong? Russ is def quicker, more agile, more explosive etc.

RW is like a cornerback in the nfl, the position widely considered to be the most athletic in the NFL (some WRs and RBs are close). Lebron is like a tall tight end with all time skills. Why is this a problematic delineation for you,

 

[Deleted member 716271]

I agree with that, just that even at 17-18 Nadal's forehand was scarily developed, but obviously his fast physical maturation helped him with that, as it was a forehand predicated on ridiculous racket head speed and explosiveness. He probably had equal or less skills than Federer at similarly young ages (in the skills sense not the mental sense) but his athleticism allowed him to quickly develop a skill that was already hugely potent. So yeah.

Nadal's racquet head speed is for sure underestimated because of the spin. His overall force (spin x speed) is probably the most of the Big 4 on average. One area where he does have questionable talent/technique is the serve. You would think he could use that same force to flatten out bombs, but we have only seen that once really in the USO 10.

 

[metsman]

I think RW is the most athletic player in the NBA. Lebron is bigger, stronger, and with better basketball skills. Why is that wrong? Russ is def quicker, more agile, more explosive etc.

RW is like a cornerback in the nfl, the position widely considered to be the most athletic in the NFL (some WRs and RBs are close). Lebron is like a tall tight end with all time skills. Why is this a problematic delineation for you,

Because russ isn't more explosive, Lebron's vertical is significantly higher. Russ' max vert is like 36.5. LeBron's is probably around 44. Watch 07-10 LeBron, he was unstoppable in transitions and throwing down thunderous dunks were while tanking through defenders were a natural finish for him. Also Lebron has much better body control at that mass and is much stronger. The difference in strength is far greater than the difference in speed. Add all this up, and you have that LeBron is orders of magnitude better at finishing at the rim and finishing through contact, again probably speaking to his superior strength and body control. To sum it up, basically LeBron has 5 inches and 70+ pounds on him and still isn't much slower than Russ and is probably more explosive. Then you add in the difference in strength and it's not a contest. LeBron could guard and stay in front a lot of point guards, he's that quick. He shut down Parker many times, who is among the quickest there is. DRose got destroyed in the 2011 eastern conference finals with LeBron guarding him. Russ would get mauled guarding any forward. I will say that Russ has an incredible ability to play full speed all the time which is awesome and why he's so good and can contribute in so many years, but LeBron is basically the king of that too.

I like looking at finishing ability as a great indication of athletic ability for a basketball player. It combines strength, explosiveness, and body control. Russ isn't that good as a finisher compared to some other guys. And it makes sense, because he's one of the best there is at getting by the defender with his first step quickness but he's a little overrated in those other areas. A guy like Eric Bledsoe is a better finisher than Westbrook. Meanwhile, LeBron finishes at the rim almost as well as Shaq did...think about that.

Anyways, I took this really off topic, back to tennis!

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

Nadal has beaten Nole and Fed in hardcourt Slam finals. And yet, he is derided by his haters as a one trick clay pony.

Nadal is anything but. Nadal has proven he can dominate on any surface and he beat fed and Djoko in many big matches on all 3