Rank the Women’s players born after Serena

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
I.e. who are the Top 10 best women’s players born after Serena Williams (last week she turned 40, born September 26, 1981)

nice change of pace from the Men’s GOAT debate for me.

I’ll start with by far the most obvious one:

#1. Justine Henin. Pretty much iron clad grip on #1 with 7 Slams, saying nothing about her insane talent, beautiful strokes, and peak level.

the rest is far more interesting - in no order it’ll probably include the below players

Muguruza
Azarenka
Osaka
Clijsters
Sharapova
Halep
Kerber
Li Na
Barty
Kuznetsova
Wozniacki
Kvitova

have at it and apologies if I missed anyone.
 

FedFanBoy

Rookie
For positions 6 to 10, you have to look at all the 2 slam winners to see who was ranked number 1 the longest. Li Na, Kuznetsova, and Kvitova were never ranked 1. Can you believe Barty has been ranked number 1 so long? I still put Azarenka and Halep for spots 6 and 7 even though they havent been ranked number 1 as long as her. Barty and Muguruza for 8 and 9 and then spot 10 I cant decide.
 
I’d put kerber before halep. Her 2016 season was way too good but she isn’t consistent.
Kerber doesn't have a single Masters to her name, but I guess 3 Slams is 3 Slams. It's close between her and Halep, that has much better non-Slam results.

I still place both behind Azarenka. Vika was amazing in 2012/2013. She was like peak Osaka, except she had Serena stop her from winning b2b USO in 2012 and 2013.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Tbh I don't rate Barty's top level as high so I have an issue putting her top 6 or top 5 here.

I still have Halep & Azarenka over Barty - both have showed me far more impressive Slam wins than Ashleigh did, and the #1s Barty held were a little hollow. Of course Barty will likely become a 5x Slam winner and end all debate, but I would still take peak Halep and peak Azarenka over Barty. And honestly, Muguruza was more impressive in her FO/Wimby wins than Barty was, though she is way too streaky to put top 10.

Kvitova honestly could have been the 2nd or 3rd best if not for the awful tragedy. I felt her talent was the best since Henin.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
For me Wozniacki doesn't belong on this list. If she does, then there's numerous others who I'd put there too, and above her (Dementieva, Ivanovic, Safina, Stephens, Pliskova, I might even put Swiatek over her already). Some of them were just not lucky enough to have Halep outchoke them in the third set of a final. Her weeks at number 1 mean nothing to me in that era. She's more comparable to me with those on a lower level - Jankovic, Stosur, the likes of Zvonareva, Aga, maybe even Kenin and Bartoli :-D (I'm president of the I Hate Caro Club. Sue me.)

12. Li Na - Glad to see her here. She's great, and has become way too little remembered. I just think her run at the top was over too little a time, and unlike most others here she only really has success on two surfaces instead of all three. Plus her run on top really coincides with the lamest period in the history of womens tennis. If she'd done a little more earlier she'd likely be a fair bit higher.

11. Kuznetsova - I hate putting her this low, but like Li, her grass success is relatively minimal. Her longevity and the badassness of her game makes me want to put her higher (and her longevity is the main reason I rank her above Li), as does her pretty great run to the Roland Garros final in 06, but her mental midgetry rearing its head so many times over the years keeps me from doing so.

10. Osaka - She has literally never won a title anywhere other than a hard court. She is incredible on hard courts, obviously, and that's why I put her over the two below, but the total lack of success anywhere else keeps her this low.

09. Barty - Her Wimbledon win was huge in building my estimation of her (no way she gets higher than Osaka without it) but her comparative struggles on hard court keep her from climbing any higher yet. That I think the best is probably yet to come allows me to give her the benefit of the doubt I probably wouldn't give Osaka.

08. Muguruza - She is the darling of my heart, and her top level is totally above others on this list I rank higher, but she's proven far too erratic even on the surfaces she's proven domination on. She and Ash are pretty close for me, I've just seen way more top level Garbi at this point, and making that final in Australia helps.

07. Kvitova - This might be controversial to many, but I think her exploits off of grass are pretty underrated. I got a lot of love for the longevity of her success, and her semi runs at Roland Garros/trio of titles in Madrid just blow my mind.

06. Halep -That year run she had from RG18 to W19 totally transformed my opinion of her. Before that she'd have been rock bottom of this list, but those two wins coupled with her consistency, and her being one of the few women on this list to be in the Major Semi Final Club totally rockets her up to here.

05. Azarenka - I used to hate her so much in her early years on top, but in this era of losers I've come to respect her fight so much. She's never won on grass, but the fact that in ALL 4 of her runs to the QF/SF of Wimbledon she has been beaten only by the eventual champion makes me think most highly of her. She's not that much lesser than Osaka on a hard court, and yet so much better everywhere else.

04. Kerber - Another one I used to HATE, but god she's so good. Her relative lack of success on red clay makes me think I'm being generous ranking her this high, but then I think of the many incredible matches over the years she's been a part of, and come around. Hope her mini comeback the second half of this year leads to good things ahead, but even if it doesn't... None of the ladies below her have won 3 out of the 4 majors.

03. Clijsters - Unlike Azarenka, her four runs to the QF/SF of Wimbledon see her beaten by the runner up every time:-D Still, multiple titles on all FOUR surfaces carry her higher, as does having played multiple finals at 3 of the 4 majors. She was always the also ran (along with Mauresmo) of that golden era, so I'm glad she got to come back and have that second run, pad the resume, and show just how lame that later era was.

02. Sharapova - Meldonium, schmeldonium. It was legal when she did everything that gets her this high on the list. How good she was 04-08 before she even hit 21 was incredible. I know successful teenagers in womens tennis are nothing to write home about, but not many of them wrap up three of the four majors before they hit legal drinking age, and not many of them have their serves compared to Sampras.

Her serve coupled with her icy mentality made her a rare thing as womens tennis sank into sadness, and that when she had the surgery that robbed her of that serve, and made her into a double fault machine, the fact that this self confessed cow on ice won TWO Roland Garros titles will never not blow my mind. The world took her greatest weapon from her, so she won the major she didn't really need one for. If that's not badass nothing is. She absolutely ended up in Serena's pocket, but that's the only thing I hold against her, and the career slam makes up for it.

01. Watch the last 3 matches of USO07 and try arguing it (Venus I think is the only one in the whole tournament who managed to avoid being fed either a bagel or a breadstick). Watch her be basically unplayable on clay for 5 years. Not even close. Venus and Serena being basically unbeatable on grass for a few years there is all that keeps her from being undeniably in the all time great conversation.
 

skaj

Legend
Top5
Henin
Clijsters
Sharapova
Kuznetsova
Azarenka

Hard to rank the rest, same tier:
Osaka, Dementieva, Kvitova, Na Li, Stosur, Radwanska, Kerber, Halep, Cibulkova, Vaidisova, Safina, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Barty, Muguruza...
 

skaj

Legend
It's tough, both without looking at stats, and with some still quite young. Go easy on me.

Henin
Sharapova
Osaka
Barty
Clijsters
Halep
Kerber
Na
Mugu/Vika/Kvitova (all streaky)
Woz
Kuz

Osaka and Barty ranked higher than Clijsters? :unsure:
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
@ibbi quite harsh on a 4 time Slam winner in Osaka but otherwise excellent list.

Hard to rank the rest, same tier:
Osaka, Dementieva, Kvitova, Na Li, Stosur, Radwanska, Kerber, Halep, Cibulkova, Vaidisova, Safina, Jankovic, Ivanovic, Barty, Muguruza...
Come on Skaj.

you can do better than putting Osaka and Halep in the same tier as Vaidisova and Cibulkova lol
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Osaka and Barty ranked higher than Clijsters? :unsure:
It's debatable - no hills for me to die on here. Osaka has already matched her slam wins, which Barty hasn't, of course.
But Barty has had - I think - a longer run at #1, and I may be projecting just a little future success here...
 

skaj

Legend
@ibbi quite harsh on a 4 time Slam winner in Osaka but otherwise excellent list.


Come on Skaj.

you can do better than putting Osaka and Halep in the same tier as Vaidisova and Cibulkova lol

Why not? If you mean accomplishment that's a different thing. My criterion was their tennis.
 

skaj

Legend
It's debatable - no hills for me to die on here. Osaka has already matched her slam wins, which Barty hasn't, of course.
But Barty has had - I think - a longer run at #1, and I may be projecting just a little future success here...

If you are taking only stats into consideration, Osaka is still behind Clijsters. If you are projecting, than it's also fair to consider their competition - one of the weakest eras in ages vs prime Williamses, Henin, Hingis, Davenport, Capriati, Mauresmo, Sharapova...
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Why not? If you mean accomplishment that's a different thing. My criterion was their tennis.
would you care to elaborate? It's not like there's a right or wrong answer here. Just having fun discussing tennis.

i.e. who would be closer to the top 10 for you out of that list you mentioned? You really can't distinguish between them?
 

skaj

Legend
would you care to elaborate? It's not like there's a right or wrong answer here. Just having fun discussing tennis.

i.e. who would be closer to the top 10 for you out of that list you mentioned? You really can't distinguish between them?

I mean what they can do on a tennis court when playing their best. They are all more less similar level, although different styles.

Of course Osaka has won much more than Vaidisova, if you compare their accomplishments of course they are not in the same tier, but if they were to play against each other when playing their best, it would be a very tight match.
 
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RaulRamirez

Legend
If you are taking only stats into consideration, Osaka is still behind Clijsters. If you are projecting, than it's also fair to consider their competition - one of the weakest eras in ages vs prime Williamses, Henin, Hingis, Davenport, Capriati, Mauresmo, Sharapova...
I can see your point, Anyway, it's probably best to rate/rank after their careers are over.
I guess I wasn't as impressed with Clijsters's career as many (though she's a great person...and fine player).
 

skaj

Legend
I can see your point, Anyway, it's probably best to rate/rank after their careers are over.
I guess I wasn't as impressed with Clijsters's career as many (though she's a great person...and fine player).

I agree that it's better to wait till their careers are over, if we are gonna compare the stats, but I was comparing them as players, their tennis. That's why Clijsters is in a tier above them for me.
 

Steffi-forever

Hall of Fame
Wozniacki is a bit underrated. She spent an impressive 71 weeks at #1, including 2 YE. 1 Slam and 2 Finals, a WTA Finals title, 30 titles overall. Ended 8 seasons in the top 10, and won at least one title in 11 consecutive seasons.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Tbh I don't rate Barty's top level as high so I have an issue putting her top 6 or top 5 here.

I still have Halep & Azarenka over Barty - both have showed me far more impressive Slam wins than Ashleigh did, and the #1s Barty held were a little hollow. Of course Barty will likely become a 5x Slam winner and end all debate, but I would still take peak Halep and peak Azarenka over Barty. And honestly, Muguruza was more impressive in her FO/Wimby wins than Barty was, though she is way too streaky to put top 10.

Kvitova honestly could have been the 2nd or 3rd best if not for the awful tragedy. I felt her talent was the best since Henin.
The injury took Kvitová out for a little while but she recovered quite quickly, incident happened in December 2016, won Birmingham in June 2017, USO QF and Beijing SF and then in 2018 she finishes in the top 8 with 5 titles including Doha and Madrid. 2019 makes the Aus Open final and had a great shot at winning that one but Osaka prevailed. Just hasn’t been at the top really since then.
 
Some great lists here. I'm finding it hard to move Kuznetsova as high up on the list as I would like to.

Just too many players keeping her lower on the basis of having better career achievements.

Kuznetsova's longevity and contribution to tennis is unquestioned, but as a greedy fan of her game I wish she had won more big titles on clay.
 
Who was the toughest matchup for Serena in her competitive prime?

Azarenka was a very tough opponent for Serena and had some epic matches against her but is short on actual Ws.

Surely it has to be Henin although Clijsters was also fantastic to watch against Serena.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
How i’d rank them in order

Henin (easy pick, 7 slams, #1, epic run at RG)
Sharapova (5 slams, #1, silver medalist)
Clijsters (3 slams, #1, 4x YEC)
Osaka (Does have 4 slams but has just 7 titles compared to Clijsters 41, Kim just has far more on her resume)
Kerber (3 slams, Silver medalist, killer 2016, 13 titles)
Azarenka (2 slams, 21 titles. Bronze medalist, probably Serena’s biggest threat in the 2010’s)
Kvitová (this one people will probably disagree with as I have her ahead of Halep and Barty but Kvitova has 28 titles, 2 slams, 8 Premier Mandatory/WTA1000 titles, YEC champ, bronze medalist etc)
Halep (2 slams but 22 titles)
Barty (2 slams, YEC, #1, 13 titles)
Kuznetsova (also controversial ahead of Garbiñe and Wozniacki but Kuzy won 2 slams and one of them included beating Serena whereas Wozniacki never beat Serena at a slam and won only once against her. Garbiñe has 2 slams but far less titles.
Muguruza (2 slams, 9 titles but her 2 slam wins included her beating the #1 player (Serena and Kerber)
Li Na (2 slams, 9 titles)
Wozniacki (1 slam, #1 for a long time, 30 titles)
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Some great lists here. I'm finding it hard to move Kuznetsova as high up on the list as I would like to.

Just too many players keeping her lower on the basis of having better career achievements.

Kuznetsova's longevity and contribution to tennis is unquestioned, but as a greedy fan of her game I wish she had won more big titles on clay.
I felt this but when you compare Kuznetsova to Muguruza and Li Na she’s definitely ahead of them, all have 2 slams but Kuznetsova has 18 titles to Muguruza and Li Na’s 9. Also she beat Serena at a slam unlike Li Na. And although Wozniacki seems the obvious choice, just one slam and also only beat Serena once, never at a slam.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Who was the toughest matchup for Serena in her competitive prime?

Azarenka was a very tough opponent for Serena and had some epic matches against her but is short on actual Ws.

Surely it has to be Henin although Clijsters was also fantastic to watch against Serena.
Henin/Clijsters in the 00’s and Azarenka moreso in the early 10’s. That’s why I put Vika as the highest player with 2 slams.

Edit: although Kerber did stop Serena from winning 2 slams in the latter half of the 2010’s. Only other one to do that in the 2010’s was Muguruza but she only won one of those slams.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Who was the toughest matchup for Serena in her competitive prime?

Azarenka was a very tough opponent for Serena and had some epic matches against her but is short on actual Ws.

Surely it has to be Henin although Clijsters was also fantastic to watch against Serena.
The Henin-Serena rivalry was a weird one wasn't it? We have basically '03 French/Wimby as prime level matchups and then.. eh. Did they even meet from 04-06? Then we have a good Serena but one clearly not at her best, not fully in shape mentally or physically, losing 3x in 2007 to Henin. Don't get me wrong Henin was excellent in '07 but I wouldn't say that was Serena's best or even really that close to her best. I really wish we could have gotten some more prime matchups out of that time period.

I think '06 Henin on clay is basically '08 Rafa equivalent btw. I know Seles was great on clay, Graf was too, but '06 Henin was from a different planet entirely. I honestly wouldn't bet any women's player in history as the favorite over '06 or '07 Henin at Roland Garros..

Then Henin drops off the map completely due to injury, we have that one final hurrah in 2010 and then that's it for the rivalry. It wasn't much of a real rivalry was it? A ton of '02-03 matches but only 2 slam meetings, 2007, and then basically nothing else.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Wozniacki is a bit underrated. She spent an impressive 71 weeks at #1, including 2 YE. 1 Slam and 2 Finals, a WTA Finals title, 30 titles overall. Ended 8 seasons in the top 10, and won at least one title in 11 consecutive seasons.
It is easy to overlook Wozniacki but a lot of those stats just aren’t that amazing. Ash Barty has already accomplished most of those.
97 weeks at #1, 2x YE#1 and likely has a 3rd this year, has 2 slams so she’s better than Woz there, also has a WTA finals title. Just the last 3 she doesn’t have but she’s only 25 and has most of Wozniacki covered already and an extra slam.

Then you’ve got Kuznetsova who has 2 slams, 18 titles, actually beat Serena to win a slam unlike Wozniacki, 2 more slam finals as well. Never been #1 or a YEC but still 2 slams.
 

skaj

Legend
Who was the toughest matchup for Serena in her competitive prime?

Azarenka was a very tough opponent for Serena and had some epic matches against her but is short on actual Ws.

Surely it has to be Henin although Clijsters was also fantastic to watch against Serena.

Depends on what you consider her prime, but definitely Henin, also people like Azarenka, Dementieva, Clijsters who were great returners, and great in rallies, combining offense, defense and consistency.

Also Capriati, for the similar reasons, and of course Venus in her prime.
 

skaj

Legend
The Henin-Serena rivalry was a weird one wasn't it? We have basically '03 French/Wimby as prime level matchups and then.. eh. Did they even meet from 04-06? Then we have a good Serena but one clearly not at her best, not fully in shape mentally or physically, losing 3x in 2007 to Henin. Don't get me wrong Henin was excellent in '07 but I wouldn't say that was Serena's best or even really that close to her best. I really wish we could have gotten some more prime matchups out of that time period.

I think '06 Henin on clay is basically '08 Rafa equivalent btw. I know Seles was great on clay, Graf was too, but '06 Henin was from a different planet entirely. I honestly wouldn't bet any women's player in history as the favorite over '06 or '07 Henin at Roland Garros..

Then Henin drops off the map completely due to injury, we have that one final hurrah in 2010 and then that's it for the rivalry. It wasn't much of a real rivalry was it? A ton of '02-03 matches but only 2 slam meetings, 2007, and then basically nothing else.

I agree; would love to have seen 2007 Henin vs 2002 Serena, also 2005 Clijsters vs 2002 Serena.
Also prime Henin on clay vs Seles/Graf from their amazing 1992 RG finals.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Going post 2005 here but Slam champs who beat Serena more than twice:

Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Stosur, Azarenka, Kerber, Muguruza, Osaka

Slam champs who beat Serena twice:

Mauresmo, Sharapova, Schiavone, Halep, Kvitova, Andreescu

Slam champs who only beat Serena once:
Ivanovic, Wozniacki, Li Na, Sloane, Kenin

Slam champs who never beat her:
Pennetta, Ostapenko, Barty

Just in terms of dominance and such for people making lists. Obviously some players like Barty, Ostapenko, Kenin and Andreescu have only had few chances to play Serena vs players like Wozniacki, Halep, Kerber and Clijsters.
 

skaj

Legend
Going post 2005 here but Slam champs who beat Serena more than twice:

Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Kuznetsova, Stosur, Azarenka, Kerber, Muguruza, Osaka

Slam champs who beat Serena twice:

Mauresmo, Sharapova, Schiavone, Halep, Kvitova, Andreescu

Slam champs who only beat Serena once:
Ivanovic, Wozniacki, Li Na, Sloane, Kenin

Slam champs who never beat her:
Pennetta, Ostapenko, Barty

Just in terms of dominance and such for people making lists. Obviously some players like Barty, Ostapenko, Kenin and Andreescu have only had few chances to play Serena vs players like Wozniacki, Halep, Kerber and Clijsters.

What about non slam champions like Jankovic and Dementieva?
 

martinezownsclay

Hall of Fame
I would personally put Clijsters over Sharapova for sure, particularly after Sharapova being proven to be a PED cheater and abuser.

1 less slam, but was the best player of both 2005 and 2010, which Sharapova was not of any year. 3 YEC to only 1 for Maria. And I think the Career Slam, particularly in the womens game, is overrated. I mean freaking Shirley Fry even managed it.

Sharapova also was lucky to win 2 French Opens in a VERY weak, terrible time for the womens game. Most eras she would never win a French Open. Clijsters is basically just a hard court specialist more or less, although she does have 2 RG runner ups, one lost 10-8 in the 3rd in a light years stronger era than Maria won her 2 in, but she atleast was a semi dominant player on hard courts for awhile, which Maria never was on any surface. She also has a legacy at 1 slam- U.S Open, which Maria definitely does not have anywhere.
 

liriel

Semi-Pro
I'll give Sharapova her due. It's so funny that the best women in tennis (besides Venus) were cold and unfriendly. Both could play a villain or Bond in a Bond movie. Now the fact that they can take a picture together during an event is treated with "wow".
It's the opposite of the Fedal.
Females vs males
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
In a combination of achievement and talent, I'd rank them:

1. Henin
2. Clijsters (remember, Clijster retired around age 24 and missed some of her peak years before her comeback)
3. Sharapova
4. Osaka
5. Kerber
6. Halep
7. Barty (I expect her to move past Kerber and Halep eventually)
8. Azarenka (her inconsistent post-2013 career weighs her down)
9. Kvitova
10. Kuznetsova
11. Li Na
12. Wozniacki
13. Muguruza
14. Ivanovic
15. Swiatek
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
I read the posts above and I see there’s a majority that considers Henin as the best after Serena.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
This is going to sound like an exaggeration but the parallels are clear to me:

In terms of history and ATGs Henin is basically the Björn Borg of women’s tennis, similar talent level and similar early retirement age.
 

skaj

Legend
In a combination of achievement and talent, I'd rank them:

1. Henin
2. Clijsters (remember, Clijster retired around age 24 and missed some of her peak years before her comeback)
3. Sharapova
4. Osaka
5. Kerber
6. Halep
7. Barty (I expect her to move past Kerber and Halep eventually)
8. Azarenka (her inconsistent post-2013 career weighs her down)
9. Kvitova
10. Kuznetsova
11. Li Na
12. Wozniacki
13. Muguruza
14. Ivanovic
15. Swiatek

If you are taking talent and context into consideration, I don't see how can Kuznetsova be 6 places below Osaka. The only thing Naomi does better is serving, and it's not like Kuznetsova is a poor server. Svetlana can match her groundstrokes, top her net game, movement, variety. Unlike Osaka, she can play well on all surfaces. She also played a much tougher field in her prime. Wasn't very consistent, but we see now neither is Naomi.
 

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
If you are taking talent and context into consideration, I don't see how can Kuznetsova be 6 places below Osaka. The only thing Naomi does better is serving, and it's not like Kuznetsova is a poor server. Svetlana can match her groundstrokes, top her net game, movement, variety. Unlike Osaka, she can play well on all surfaces. She also played a much tougher field in her prime. Wasn't very consistent, but we see now neither is Naomi.
OK, but how many Met Galas Kuznetsova has attended?
 
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