Returning heavy kick serves

[KMV]

Running into difficulties with 1 of the players who has a wicked kick serve..

I am about 6"3, play with a 1hbh (eastern). This guy gets the ball to consistently kick shoulder to head-high, and consistently into my backhand. Hitting a flat or topspin returns forces errors. I do have a good short slice, but he is able to anticipate, step forward and put it away.. Attenpting to step well back and return doesnt help either. end up either giving him a better ange to ace me or hitting a short ball..

However, if i do manage to get into a neutral rally with him, i usually have the upper hand and win the point more often than not..

Any tips or ideas ?

 

[goober]

Step in and take it early on the rise before it kicks up with a shortened take back.

OR you could try moonballing or lobbing his ball back.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Step in and take it early on the rise before it kicks up with a shortened take back.

+1. On the rise with a short backswing. Try to drive the racket through the ball, focusing on solid contact and directional control rather than racket head speed.

 

[Nellie]

Why not slice deeper? If not, can you aim for more angle (corner of the service box crosscourt- classic doubles return)?

Anyway, does the opponent hit wide to you forehand? If not, randomly run around that backhand sometimes and take a good forehand whack at the return. Even if your return is out, it will make the opponent really think about shot placement.

 

[rkelley]

Is he coming in behind it or staying back?

 

[dozu]

slice return should be ok... if he doesn't come in, then just push it deep.... if he comes in, because your contact point is so high and it's a high to low ball flight, he will have to volley up.

 

[BobFL]

+1. On the rise with a short backswing. Try to drive the racket through the ball, focusing on solid contact and directional control rather than racket head speed.

Excellent advice if he gives him pace together with kick. However, if it's just a floating kick with no so much pace to work with, I would just try to hit a few high balls and see what happens...

 

[Tennis Is Magic]

The key is to swing fast and really brush up on it. A decent kick serve will have a lot of topspin and be very heavy, and you need to swing hard to reverse the spin (if you're trying to return the ball with topspin) and you'll have to generate your own pace, as kickers are considerably slower than first serves, especially after the bounce. If you try to hit it with a slow swing, you'll hit it short with no spin, and it will be an easy approach shot.

You can also try and take it on the rise or (the option I prefer) is to wait on the ball to come down and take a big rip at it. You lose the advantage of being able to hit the ball as your opponent is getting back into position, but you can get on offense very easily doing this. I stand a couple feet behind the baseline, take my split step as they're about to hit their serve, and it feels like I have an eternity to hit the ball.

 

[Tebow]

Excellent advice if he gives him pace together with kick. However, if it's just a floating kick with no so much pace to work with, I would just try to hit a few high balls and see what happens...

Yes, if it's just the kick without much weight just hit that kind of ball that is to low for a smash and to high for a solid volley. That it's one of the hardest shot to master.

 

[J_R_B]

I usually try to take big kickers well inside the baseline before they can kick up high and chip deep to the center of the court. I suck, though, so take any advice with a grain of salt.

 

[mikeler]

I like the moonball approach to get the point to neutral.

 

[Tennis Is Magic]

I like the moonball approach to get the point to neutral.

I have to disagree. A kicking second serve is one of the weakest shots you'll get against a good player, it's a very good opportunity to go on offense unless you're a diehard counterpuncher.

 

[KMV]

like the suggestion on shortenning the backswing, will try that out..
The difficulty is not about how returning kick serves, but the amount of kick this guy gets at decent pace (~150 kph), and consistently deep into my backhand (esp ad court) at nearly head high.. The angle (from ad court) also makes it difficult to run around and hit a forehand..
i did try taking it on the rise.. but thanks to my 1 hander, shank it more often than not.. A deep crosscourt slice has been 1 shot that is effective, when i did manage to pull it off..

 

[BobFL]

like the suggestion on shortenning the backswing, will try that out..
The difficulty is not about how returning kick serves, but the amount of kick this guy gets at decent pace (~150 kph), and consistently deep into my backhand (esp ad court) at nearly head high.. The angle (from ad court) also makes it difficult to run around and hit a forehand..
i did try taking it on the rise.. but thanks to my 1 hander, shank it more often than not.. A deep crosscourt slice has been 1 shot that is effective, when i did manage to pull it off..

Decent pace? That's 93MPH. Your friend pretty much beats Nadal's 2nd serve speed (for example: Wimbledon 2010; Berdych)...

 

[Tennis Is Magic]

like the suggestion on shortenning the backswing, will try that out..
The difficulty is not about how returning kick serves, but the amount of kick this guy gets at decent pace (~150 kph), and consistently deep into my backhand (esp ad court) at nearly head high.. The angle (from ad court) also makes it difficult to run around and hit a forehand..
i did try taking it on the rise.. but thanks to my 1 hander, shank it more often than not.. A deep crosscourt slice has been 1 shot that is effective, when i did manage to pull it off..

Well, just because it's a second serve doesn't mean you have to move in, hell, if it kicks up that much, you could even move back a bit. Just stand where you can take the ball on the rise or the fall, whichever you choose, in your strike zone.

 

[mikeler]

I have to disagree. A kicking second serve is one of the weakest shots you'll get against a good player, it's a very good opportunity to go on offense unless you're a diehard counterpuncher.

A 93 MPH kick serve is not a weak shot. If the opponent is not coming to the net or is not great at net, just roll back a topspin moonball. Hopefully it lands past the service line and puts you at neutral in the point.

Now a slow kick serve can be dealt with offensively. They give you enough time to hit the ball at a better height.

 

[Tennis Is Magic]

A 93 MPH kick serve is not a weak shot. If the opponent is not coming to the net or is not great at net, just roll back a topspin moonball. Hopefully it lands past the service line and puts you at neutral in the point.

Now a slow kick serve can be dealt with offensively. They give you enough time to hit the ball at a better height.

If you compare a 93 mph kicker to the shots that players who are capable of hitting 93 mph kick serves can hit, it's weak. There's a reason pros win 40% of second serve points.

 

[ssonosk]

lean back (to where you're facing the sky), load your shoulders, hit up, and hit it off your back foot. idk if i explained it that great, but you're pretty much leaning back and hitting up on the ball to generate more spin and a decent ball you could attack with.

 

[mikeler]

If you compare a 93 mph kicker to the shots that players who are capable of hitting 93 mph kick serves can hit, it's weak. There's a reason pros win 40% of second serve points.

Sure, if you are a 7.0. I'm thinking the OP may be lower rated than that though.

 

[BobFL]

Sure, if you are a 7.0. I'm thinking the OP may be lower rated than that though.

You beat me to it...

 

[LeeD]

Kickers up around the forehead are tough for anyone, even 7.0's. They practice this highball shot for hours and months, until they can return it low and to either side.
WE, OTOH, don't have the time or the inclination to practice this shot, so we might need to cheat a little, slice the return like it's a high volley, but stay forwards, get on the balls of the feet, move forwards, and keep it low. Anything popped to NML get's volleyed away for a clean winner, so low is the answer....at least for 4.5 and up.

 

[gregor.b]

Running into difficulties with 1 of the players who has a wicked kick serve..

I am about 6"3, play with a 1hbh (eastern). This guy gets the ball to consistently kick shoulder to head-high, and consistently into my backhand. Hitting a flat or topspin returns forces errors. I do have a good short slice, but he is able to anticipate, step forward and put it away.. Attenpting to step well back and return doesnt help either. end up either giving him a better ange to ace me or hitting a short ball..

However, if i do manage to get into a neutral rally with him, i usually have the upper hand and win the point more often than not..

Any tips or ideas ?

The deeper he hits it the better for you.This means you don't have to move in so far to take it on the rise,and with that sort of pace you need almost no backswing.If you move in,take it early and commit to the shot (btw what level are you?)you should be able to keep it down.I am only 5'9 and this is what I have had to do to against the big servers.You will make a few errors early on but if you commit,your body and brain will adjust and when you start making the return consistently,you will make him change his game.Ad you.

 

[LeeD]

Maybe I"m an old, blind, and handicapped player, but when the kick serves go really deep and IN, the bounce is going up and HARD, the noise HISSES loudly, the ball is oval, and the server is moving in near his own service line....and, he can volley!
Not quite easy as all you posters say.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

like the suggestion on shortenning the backswing, will try that out..
The difficulty is not about how returning kick serves, but the amount of kick this guy gets at decent pace (~150 kph), and consistently deep into my backhand (esp ad court) at nearly head high.. The angle (from ad court) also makes it difficult to run around and hit a forehand..
i did try taking it on the rise.. but thanks to my 1 hander, shank it more often than not.. A deep crosscourt slice has been 1 shot that is effective, when i did manage to pull it off..

If he's hitting that heavy, then you definitely need a short back swing on the return or else you'll end up framing it like you're doing.

Just keep in mind that you don't have to supply the power; your opponent is already doing that for you. A smooth, flattish stroke from a short back swing is the best way to make solid contact on a consistent basis, and solid contact is what you're looking for (though it's still tough to do against good servers).

It's like doing a swinging volley: you don't need high racket head speed; you need solid contact from a smooth swing.

 

[ATP100]

If YOU think you have no chance, than, drop shot the next 25 service returns, you might be surprised.

 

[KMV]

Well, just because it's a second serve doesn't mean you have to move in, hell, if it kicks up that much, you could even move back a bit. Just stand where you can take the ball on the rise or the fall, whichever you choose, in your strike zone.

well, its not a 2nd serve.. both 1st and 2nd are kickers! keep getting that all the time at your 1 hbh, 1st and 2nd.. get the picture?

 

[KMV]

If he's hitting that heavy, then you definitely need a short back swing on the return or else you'll end up framing it like you're doing.

Just keep in mind that you don't have to supply the power; your opponent is already doing that for you. A smooth, flattish stroke from a short back swing is the best way to make solid contact on a consistent basis, and solid contact is what you're looking for (though it's still tough to do against good servers).

It's like doing a swinging volley: you don't need high racket head speed; you need solid contact from a smooth swing.

very true, will try it out when we play this weekend!

 

[KMV]

Maybe I"m an old, blind, and handicapped player, but when the kick serves go really deep and IN, the bounce is going up and HARD, the noise HISSES loudly, the ball is oval, and the server is moving in near his own service line....and, he can volley!
Not quite easy as all you posters say.

thankfully, he happens to be a terrible volleyer but then very effective in putting away the short ball..

 

[mikeler]

thankfully, he happens to be a terrible volleyer but then very effective in putting away the short ball..

Terrible volleys is the perfect candidate for moonball returns. Start out by aiming deep but the middle of the court. That way any sidespin action won't make your return go wide. As you dial in a little more with it, then you can start aiming the moonballs for the corners. Now you'll be neutral in the point where you say that you win the majority of the time. Good luck!

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Terrible volleys is the perfect candidate for moonball returns. Start out by aiming deep but the middle of the court. That way any sidespin action won't make your return go wide. As you dial in a little more with it, then you can start aiming the moonballs for the corners. Now you'll be neutral in the point where you say that you win the majority of the time. Good luck!

And what happens when he faces someone with a good kick serves and good volleys? He's right back to square one, asking for advice on how to return a good kick serve.

On the other hand, if he learns to drive returns off kick serves, that's effective against any opponent.

 

[mikeler]

And what happens when he faces someone with a good kick serves and good volleys? He's right back to square one, asking for advice on how to return a good kick serve.

On the other hand, if he learns to drive returns off kick serves, that's effective against any opponent.

In that case, he is hosed. I'm simply responding to this one opponent.

 

[LuckyR]

The options are: approach and take it in your strikezone, but on the rise, a tough shot, but makable. Drop back and wait for it to drop lower than the head height you are currently dealing with, which would be the correct answer for a baseliner opponent. Or switch up your stroke to deal better with head high balls and stand where you are now. I would not recommend fooling around with your core stroke mechanics, but others will differ.

 

[a10best]

good tips guys. Someone with a great serve & volley game who has a huge kick, stepping in is your best bet OR slicing it down to their weaker stroke side.

 

[MNPlayer]

good tips guys. Someone with a great serve & volley game who has a huge kick, stepping in is your best bet OR slicing it down to their weaker stroke side.

Yup. I just played a guy who had a pretty big kicker and very good volleys this week. He would serve and volley pretty fairly often. I lost the first few return games badly until I started stepping in and hitting the ball a little earlier and getting it down (slice on many backhands, topspin on FH). This seemed to make it a little harder on him by taking some time away and forcing him to hit up, which at least gave me a shot at his volley.

The one advantage to returning kickers is that they usually don't have the pace of a flat serve, so you can afford to step in. And at my level, most guys can't reliably hit both. I just gotta remember to adjust earlier in a match before I'm down 2-5 I did come back to win that set 7-5 tho

 

[KMV]

played the same guy again last evening.. shanked a lot less shortening the swing on the backhand.. mixed with the cross court slice at the ad court, managed to break twice..
havent tried floating back mid court.. will do next time..
thanks for teh suggestions again!