Returning KICK Serves

[In D Zone]

Two part question:

Part 1 - How to return a fast kick serve?

I pride my skill in returning serves, normally had no problem with majority of the guys I play with - fast, slice, kick and top spin. Then I played this dude who I have seen playing on another park; this time he stopped by the neighborhood. I have seen him normally play doubles; haven't seen play singles.

Before the game started, he came to me and said it's going to a rough game for me and asked me to try my best. I knew he was like a 5.0 from the games I've seen so I smiled back. Man ! - this dude was serious when he said that - opening serve. He laid a fast kick serve towards me.... The ball jumped over 6 ft high. I had to jump up to hit the return back. The difficulty was he can move his serve down the line and wide out on both sides.

And when I hit the return back... he's run right in to the net to volley.
I tried stepping back, he would then hit a wide out that lands really short, so the ball will kick out to the court immediately.

I wanted to know if anyone can give me pointers on how to approach the return. I tried chipping / slicing on the back hand - the ball would kick out because it bounced high when I tried to slice it back. He got me wrapped up with my returns that I forgot to move in and attack his serve on the rise.

Yes, I lost the set: 6-1.


Part 2: How to deliver a fast kick serve?
I know how to hit a kick serve but normally, the see the ball looping high and it kicks up but the pace is not as fast as a flat or slice.

After the match... my opponent advise me to master the kick and said that most guys knows how to serve with a kick serve but only a few knew how to serve it effectively.

 

[TennsDog]

When I get someone hurting me on the serves (no matter what type it is), I just move about 2 feet inside the baseline and trust my tennis instinct to help me out. Take pretty much zero backswing, and take a full whack at it. I seem to hit better serve returns when the serves are hit quicker. It gives me less time to actively do anything, so I'm just reacting. I guess muscle memory takes over from there and I can lay into it for better returns. If the serve is as good as it sounds, you don't have much other choice than this. It will take you too far out and back if you let it drop, and you can't do much with a service return at or above your head.

Serves (like pretty much everything in life) are a trade-off. You have a certain maximum speed at which you can swing the racket. That speed has some combination of upward and forward velocity to it. Kick serves tend to have more upward than outward, while flat is the opposite. So, if you have good kick serves (i.e. plenty of upward velocity), redirecting some of that will take away from the kick part of the serve, though it will increase the speed. So, the only way to increase speed while retaining all the rpms is to swing faster (this doesn't necessarily mean "harder"). The two basic ways of doing this are to get stronger or change your mechanics. There is pretty much always room for improvement on the serve mechanics-wise.

 

[Nellie]

I think that you had good instincts - you need to move to get the ball in your confort zone around your waist.

For most people, you need to get as close as possible and take the ball on the rise before it gets out of your comfort zone. I chip and charge a lot, but others like to take a big, flat swing at the ball. You would see Sampras doing this agaist Rafter. Even on my chips, I swing almost flat, and allow the topspin and angle of the serve to cause the slice. The one thing to note is that it is really, really hard to hit top spin against a fast rising ball - the ball is going up almost vertically and, for a heavy topspin, your racquet will be travelling almost vertically as well, leaving you with a very low margin for error.

If you cannot take the ball early, then you will need to step way back so you can take a big topspin stroke at the ball as it is falling. Gasquet does this alot.

Most guys who have good kickserves, also serve and volley because the kicker gives more time to get into the net, so you also have to plan your return. It should be low and short to force the server to make a low volley or half volley.

As a caveat, if you start getting too close, any good player will start mixing up the serve and start hitting flat/slice serves. You will need to watch the toss - start and stay back when the ball toss is out front, but start coming in when the tossis over the server's head.

If all else fails, try lobbing off the serve return to restart the point on more even ground.

 

[Diable]

Those are very good advices. (from the 2 guys above)
I apply the same principles on my returns, and it works.
I step inside the baseline, sometimes 6 feet. Kick serve are usually slower, so I just use my instinct and hit it on the rise very early.
The bounce trajectory is fairly easy to read so I can swing flat and drive it. that's usually enough to hit a return winner. the server doesn't have much time to react because I took some time away from him.
Good luck.

 

[In D Zone]

I did forget to watch the stance of the server, was caught in the moment and lost my bearing.

I should have stepped in and hit the return on the rise rather than letting the kick bounce.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Before the game started, he came to me and said it's going to a rough game for me and asked me to try my best.

Sounds like a very humble guy.

Anyway, I think there is more here than just being able to return that serve.

Most of the time, if a shot from a certain opponent overwhelms you, it simply means you're not quite at that level. If you lost the set 6-1, his return game is still better than your own service game. How did you plan to win points against this guy?

It sounds more like a case of needing to improve all aspects of your game and work your way up to the level of this guy. With that said, guys at nearly all levels of the game are troubled with kick serves that are executed well. This is why it is so incredibly important to have a serve or some other effective weapon that you can rely on.

I've been in situations like that where my opponent had a serve that impressed me during the whole match. What I've learned from those sets is how important it is for me to develop my own serve as weapon. I need a serve that can keep me in a match with players at any level that I'll come across. A serve that can keep in the match long enough that I might be able to adjust to and get a handle on my opponents serve. When you have a serve or some other weapon (one that wins you matches) that you're confident in, it takes a whole bunch of pressure off your return games. When there is no pressure, it much easier and more comfortable to hit good returns.

There are a lot of questions around here that start out with "how do I deal with a (fill in the blank?". I usually look at these questions from a different perspective and that is, what am I doing to my opponent? What is the shot that he is troubled with? Am I making him hit it? Do I have a weapon? How am I winning points? Am I just reacting to his play?

Sorry, I know this doesn't answer your questions...

 

[Bagumbawalla]

There Is always a trade-off in tennis, spin verses speed. So the more spin they put on the ball the slower it will actually travel across the net.

So, if you can predict the spin serve is coming (every second serve for example), then yes, I agree, step in and catch the ball before it bounces over your head. Take a short backswing and pop the ball either down the line or angled cross court out of the server's reach as best you can.

 

[TennsDog]

There Is always a trade-off in tennis, spin verses speed. So the more spin they put on the ball the slower it will actually travel across the net.

So, if you can predict the spin serve is coming (every second serve for example), then yes, I agree, step in and catch the ball before it bounces over your head. Take a short backswing and pop the ball either down the line or angled cross court out of the server's reach as best you can.

The trade-off of which you speak is entirely true for any particular person (assuming they swing with a given velocity at impact), but it's not always relevant. If the other guy is as much better as it sounds he may have been, then he was likely hitting with substantially more spin AND speed than the OP is used to. While he does have to make a trade-off within his own game, for a lesser developed player, no trade-off will be noticed, as both aspects of the stroke will be increased.

 

[TennisFrkJC92]

I always take a risk on kick serves and take a wack at it on the rise. I can easily tell when my opponent is hitting a kick serve, so i go up and take it on the rise. At first, i was shanking the ball constantly but my timing got better and better. Try doing this.

 

[In D Zone]

Sounds like a very humble guy.

Anyway, I think there is more here than just being able to return that serve.

Most of the time, if a shot from a certain opponent overwhelms you, it simply means you're not quite at that level. If you lost the set 6-1, his return game is still better than your own service game. How did you plan to win points against this guy?

It sounds more like a case of needing to improve all aspects of your game and work your way up to the level of this guy. With that said, guys at nearly all levels of the game are troubled with kick serves that are executed well. This is why it is so incredibly important to have a serve or some other effective weapon that you can rely on.

I've been in situations like that where my opponent had a serve that impressed me during the whole match. What I've learned from those sets is how important it is for me to develop my own serve as weapon. I need a serve that can keep me in a match with players at any level that I'll come across. A serve that can keep in the match long enough that I might be able to adjust to and get a handle on my opponents serve. When you have a serve or some other weapon (one that wins you matches) that you're confident in, it takes a whole bunch of pressure off your return games. When there is no pressure, it much easier and more comfortable to hit good returns.

There are a lot of questions around here that start out with "how do I deal with a (fill in the blank?". I usually look at these questions from a different perspective and that is, what am I doing to my opponent? What is the shot that he is troubled with? Am I making him hit it? Do I have a weapon? How am I winning points? Am I just reacting to his play?

Sorry, I know this doesn't answer your questions...

No worries! I appreciate the comments. I totally lost my concentration and was not mentally tough to maintain my composure. I normally have good command on my serve. The opponent pressed me on his serve- all kick serves (1st and 2nd serves). This breakdown caused me too loose my serve and eventually loose my game; lost my game on tie breakers. Yeap ! I need to keep my composure; its a great lesson learned.

I did some research to find out why my backhand slice failed me on my returns. I found that stroke on my slice was wrong - i was chopping the ball down from high to low (ball will fly out instead of bouncing back to the court); I should be swinging my racquet on straight out. I remembered Federer used this stroke on his return when he played Djokovic (US Open).

Here's the clip on how to use the slice to return a kick serve.... hopefully others can benefit from it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYOGGux1vLI

 

[me is bored]

No worries! I appreciate the comments. I totally lost my concentration and was not mentally tough to maintain my composure. I normally have good command on my serve. The opponent pressed me on his serve- all kick serves (1st and 2nd serves). This breakdown caused me too loose my serve and eventually loose my game; lost my game on tie breakers. Yeap ! I need to keep my composure; its a great lesson learned.

I did some research to find out why my backhand slice failed me on my returns. I found that stroke on my slice was wrong - i was chopping the ball down from high to low (ball will fly out instead of bouncing back to the court); I should be swinging my racquet on straight out. I remembered Federer used this stroke on his return when he played Djokovic (US Open).

Here's the clip on how to use the slice to return a kick serve.... hopefully others can benefit from it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYOGGux1vLI

thx for the clip. very helpful. and ya i noticed that like almost all of federers retruns were slices haha.

 

[Hot Sauce]

It kicked 6ft and you had to jump to return it? You must be really small.

 

[TennsDog]

It kicked 6ft and you had to jump to return it? You must be really small.

I would probably jump for a ball 6ft high, seeing as it would be over my head and I find it very uncomfortable and difficult to hit a ball that high very well.

 

[Ambivalent]

It kicked 6ft and you had to jump to return it? You must be really small.

You shouldn't be able to see the apex of the kick. I chop kickserves back while they're on the rise or i just take a dinkswing and try to drive it back deep.

 

[bluestreak711]

Two part question:

Part 1 - How to return a fast kick serve?

I pride my skill in returning serves, normally had no problem with majority of the guys I play with - fast, slice, kick and top spin. Then I played this dude who I have seen playing on another park; this time he stopped by the neighborhood. I have seen him normally play doubles; haven't seen play singles.

Before the game started, he came to me and said it's going to a rough game for me and asked me to try my best. I knew he was like a 5.0 from the games I've seen so I smiled back. Man ! - this dude was serious when he said that - opening serve. He laid a fast kick serve towards me.... The ball jumped over 6 ft high. I had to jump up to hit the return back. The difficulty was he can move his serve down the line and wide out on both sides.

And when I hit the return back... he's run right in to the net to volley.
I tried stepping back, he would then hit a wide out that lands really short, so the ball will kick out to the court immediately.

I wanted to know if anyone can give me pointers on how to approach the return. I tried chipping / slicing on the back hand - the ball would kick out because it bounced high when I tried to slice it back. He got me wrapped up with my returns that I forgot to move in and attack his serve on the rise.

Yes, I lost the set: 6-1.


Part 2: How to deliver a fast kick serve?
I know how to hit a kick serve but normally, the see the ball looping high and it kicks up but the pace is not as fast as a flat or slice.

After the match... my opponent advise me to master the kick and said that most guys knows how to serve with a kick serve but only a few knew how to serve it effectively.

first be able to block it back

as you get more experienced attemp to take a normal ground stroke

very compact backswing


that works best for me

I got an email from Brent Abel once and he said to slice it back is a good way

BUT!!!

not a good option for lower levels trust me

i was in the same situation that you were and took that advice

and they would go about 1 foot in front of me sizzle and spin even louder and take off behind me



i was doing good just blocking it back and later learning to take a full swing