rule quesiton: backspinning back over net

[topher.juan]

today the guy i played against hit a backspin lob, it landed very close to the net, bounced up and landed on his court, double bouncing. he said since i did not touch the ball the point was not mine and was to be called a 'let'. i said, i don't care if it's backspin or wind that pulled his ball back, your shot touched my court and landed back on yours bouncing twice, regardless of me (not) touching it, it's my point. he wouldn't budge, insisted that i need to have recalled reading this in the rule book... we played a let and i punished him for the call, and won the match... but i tried to find an official statement in the rules and did not clearly see this.. i was right, right? can anyone clarify? not that this is something common, i just don't want to give away a point again.

page 10 on the rules says:
"the player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice consecutively;"
my ball (that i didn't have to touch) bounced once, his twice.. so i don't see how the point was not mine.

rules:
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_30333_original.PDF

 

[Cindysphinx]

Uh oh. I say you're both wrong.

Ball bounces into your court with backspin that carries it back to his court before you can touch it? That is his point. You don't play a let, he won the point. Same result if the cause is wind instead of backspin.

This situation is the only time you are allowed to make contact with the ball on your opponent's side of the net. 'Cause if you don't hit it before it bounces back into his court, he wins the point.

I managed this shot only once. Total frame mishit. And darn skippy I took the point!

 

[ascdga]

The only way you win the point is if you reach across the net without touching it (the net) and touch the ball with your racquet. Otherwise, the point is his.

 

[Failed]

It is his point

 

[coogs08]

he is right, he won the point. if you didn't reach over the net and make any contact with the ball before it landed back on his side, then you lose the point.

 

[topher.juan]

hmmmm.... ok! i was wrong!
thanks, good to know! if it ever happens again i'll tap the ball on his side before it bounces.. now that's going to be a sprint & stretch! (i was at the baseline)

 

[Mr. Hokey]

I'm not sure where the rule is exactly, but they've made provisions for this. If the ball happens to bounce back over the net without you touching it, it is technically your opponents point. If this happens to occur though, you are allowed to reach over the net and hit the ball, provided that you don't touch the net itself.

Otherwise, your opponent was letting you off easy with a let. It should have been his point.

 

[coogs08]

Usually the only time you'll see that kind of shot is when they hit a drop volley with insane backspin, so you're pretty much out of luck. I've never seen a lob like that before though, interesting.

 

[JediMindTrick]

today the guy i played against hit a backspin lob, it landed very close to the net, bounced up and landed on his court, double bouncing. he said since i did not touch the ball the point was not mine and was to be called a 'let'. i said, i don't care if it's backspin or wind that pulled his ball back, your shot touched my court and landed back on yours bouncing twice, regardless of me (not) touching it, it's my point. he wouldn't budge, insisted that i need to have recalled reading this in the rule book... we played a let and i punished him for the call, and won the match... but i tried to find an official statement in the rules and did not clearly see this.. i was right, right? can anyone clarify? not that this is something common, i just don't want to give away a point again.

page 10 on the rules says:
"the player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice consecutively;"
my ball (that i didn't have to touch) bounced once, his twice.. so i don't see how the point was not mine.

rules:
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_30333_original.PDF

The ball doesn't have to bounce twice in your court, it only has to bounce once in your court. The second bounce can be anywhere, in your court, out, or in your opponent's court, on the second bounce you lose the point.

 

[woodrow1029]

today the guy i played against hit a backspin lob, it landed very close to the net, bounced up and landed on his court, double bouncing. he said since i did not touch the ball the point was not mine and was to be called a 'let'. i said, i don't care if it's backspin or wind that pulled his ball back, your shot touched my court and landed back on yours bouncing twice, regardless of me (not) touching it, it's my point. he wouldn't budge, insisted that i need to have recalled reading this in the rule book... we played a let and i punished him for the call, and won the match... but i tried to find an official statement in the rules and did not clearly see this.. i was right, right? can anyone clarify? not that this is something common, i just don't want to give away a point again.

page 10 on the rules says:
"the player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice consecutively;"
my ball (that i didn't have to touch) bounced once, his twice.. so i don't see how the point was not mine.

rules:
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_30333_original.PDF

Here is the rule:

25. A GOOD RETURN​

It is a good return if:​

b.​

​

​

​

​

After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net, the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court, provided that the player does not break Rule 24

If you don't return it, it's the opponent's point.​

 

[Nellie]

^^^ that makes a lot of sense - kind of like the common ball that bounces once in your court and a second time out of bounds. I always knew the rule but did not understand "why."

 

[not_too_shabby]

Resurrecting a really old thread. 2009! If the ball does land in your court, then goes back over then net, can you reach over the net (before the ball bounces), and if you hit it into the net(the opponents side of the net), to win the point? I heard this was the case as it would be the same as your opponent hitting it into the net.

 

[Luke Yonex]

An apology is in order when you see him again

 

[chic]

Resurrecting a really old thread. 2009! If the ball does land in your court, then goes back over then net, can you reach over the net (before the ball bounces), and if you hit it into the net(the opponents side of the net), to win the point? I heard this was the case as it would be the same as your opponent hitting it into the net.

Yes you can do this. It's not the same as your opponent hitting it into the net though.

It's the same as hitting a netcord. If your opponent is there they can try to play the bounce off the net but it's usually impossible by that point.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Resurrecting a really old thread. 2009! If the ball does land in your court, then goes back over then net, can you reach over the net (before the ball bounces), and if you hit it into the net(the opponents side of the net), to win the point? I heard this was the case as it would be the same as your opponent hitting it into the net.

@chic has it correct, I believe.

Normally, a player loses a point if, upon returning an opponent's good shot, their own shot hits the ground (or a permanent fixture) outside the lines before it bounces.

So, if your opponent returns a "live" ball into the net on their own side (and the ball does not continue over to the other side), they lose the point right away.

[Side note: When this happens in badminton, the shuttle is considered to be "dead" (point over) when the shuttle starts to drop after hitting the net on your own side. The shuttle does not need to hit the ground in this case for the point to be over.]

Back to the OP scenario. Your opponent hits a good ball that bounces back over to their side -- because of wind or heavy backspin. If you can reach the ball before it bounces again (on your opponent's side), one of the best options is to hit the ball back into net.

When you do that, the point is not over immediately. (Unlike the situation where your opponent had hit the ball into the net). It is conceivable, but extremely unlikely, that your opponent still has a play on that ball.

In the (nearly) 5 decades that I played tennis, I've been able to reach a "bounce back" ball and hit into the net on my opponent's side about 5 times or so in all the years I've played. The ball pretty much rolls off the net after it hits it, and my opponent has never been able to return the netted ball in any of those cases.

After I've hit the ball into the net in this manner, the ball is not yet "dead" until it bounces twice (after hitting the net).

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

@chic @not_too_shabby

There are other ways to play the "bounce back" ball and almost guarantee that you will win the point. I've played balls that spun back over or were blown back over, a dozen or so times. Every single time where I was able to reach that ball, I was able to win the point.

A 2nd way to win this point... Sometimes, the ball has gone back over and carried far enough such that it would be very difficult to hit the ball back into the net. In a number of cases, I have gotten to that ball and reached over the net and hit it parallel to the net. As long as you hit this ball so that hits inside the playing area, it is highly unlikely that your opponent will be able to reach that ball that is headed toward the side fence.

Finally, a 3rd way to win this point... A few times I ran up to play a "bounce back" ball just in time to reach the ball before it was too far from the net to reach. In these cases, I had to really stretch to reach the ball before it got away from me. I decided not swing at the ball at all in this situation.

I merely touched the ball very lightly with my racket frame. The ball dropped nearly vertical (w/o moving toward NML or the opponent). The opponents were usually too stunned to get to this ball before it bounced twice after I touched it. In some of those cases, they did not realize that I could legally reach over the net and make that play. So they did not react in time to play my "light touch" contact.

 

[user92626]

Resurrecting a really old thread. 2009! If the ball does land in your court, then goes back over then net, can you reach over the net (before the ball bounces), and if you hit it into the net(the opponents side of the net), to win the point? I heard this was the case as it would be the same as your opponent hitting it into the net.

In 2020, you no longer can reach over the net if your opponent is within 6 ft.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

In 2020, you no longer can reach over the net if your opponent is within 6 ft.

New pandemic rule needed... A player shall not position themselves in a manner that prevents or interferes with their opponent's ability to have a play on the ball.

Positioning yourself, in this manner, would constitute a type of goaltending (which already is a violation in basketball).

 

[not_too_shabby]

Thanks guys for the clarification.

 

[Mitch_1979]

Raonic did this in mixed doubles...

 

[zaph]

I hit dropshot like this once, so much backspin it bounced and landed on my side of the court. Opponent didn't touch it, my point.

 

[diggler]

This happened to me recently. It bounced on my side of the net and went back over. I reached over and hit the ball but my foot went under the net without touching it. They said I lost because I reached over but I think the correct rule is I lost because my foot went under the net.

 

[ChimpChimp]

I think the correct rule is I lost because my foot went under the net.

t.
Did you step on opponent's court? If your foot just went under the net without touching the ground, I don't think you faulted.

 

[jm1980]

t.
Did you step on opponent's court? If your foot just went under the net without touching the ground, I don't think you faulted.

You are not allowed to touch either the net or the opponent's court, so I don't see how your foot could legally go under the net

 

[ChimpChimp]

You are not allowed to touch either the net or the opponent's court, so I don't see how your foot could legally go under the net

The net blown up by the wind

 

[toby55555]

If the backspin takes the ball past the outside of the net post can you run after it and hit it into the opponent's court?
Asking on behalf of someone who played in a match where this happened and opponent claimed the point ie claimed if you can reach over the net you can also go around the net post (without stepping on the opponent's court)..

 

[ChimpChimp]

If the backspin takes the ball past the outside of the net post can you run after it and hit it into the opponent's court?
Asking on behalf of someone who played in a match where this happened and opponent claimed the point ie claimed if you can reach over the net you can also go around the net post (without stepping on the opponent's court)..

The rules do not forbid a player to step on the 'out' area of the opponent's side at any time.