rules/etiquette question???

[tom-selleck]

didn't see an obvious place to put a rules question, so here goes!!!

was playing on clay.... on a type that has alot of dust/dirt on the surface... i think it was gray clay (????) instead of red which i prefer.

anyhow, saw a ball slightly out by my opponent and about to call it out, but then i saw that there's a ball mark and the area it cleared out extends to baseline.... so i call it in (friendly game so doesn't really matter).

asked my friend afterwards and he came over and put the ball on the round mark and said it was out (he called his shot out, so he's not a homer)...... but what happens when the ball blows some dust on landing? or did it roll slightly? ...... did i have overrule my own call when i saw that the mark was clear, but not necessarily caused by ball touching the court....

what's your experience/take on this???

thanks in advance as always.

 

[Mahboob Khan]

I know what you are saying. If the court surface is quite loose and dusty, a powerfully hit ball which may be otherwise out, may spread some dust over an adjoining line creating an illusion that it is in. My question is: Will such a ball be given in on hard courts? The actual bounce and the effect of the bounce?

 

[tom-selleck]

mahboob,

it's hard to say.... i would definitely have called it out, but then i see this giant clear mark on the court..... but the ball shouldn't roll too much, so i said say out, even though i called it in.

sort of like baseball, tie goes to runner... or if not sure, it's in.

 

[MegacedU]

Grey clay usually is har-tru (sp?), and usually on this surface if the ball is on the line/touched the line/clipped the line etc, it bounces strangely since most often, the lines are raised. I play on that surface all summer long - I just look for the bounce.

 

[TommyGun]

In is the correct call. The rules of tennis basically tell you that if you aren't sure then you need to err on the side of caution, or in this case the other player.

Anyone here wou would tell you to call it out would be contrary to good tennis ettiquette.

Your first call is usually the correct call.

 

[papa]

Grey clay usually is har-tru (sp?), and usually on this surface if the ball is on the line/touched the line/clipped the line etc, it bounces strangely since most often, the lines are raised. I play on that surface all summer long - I just look for the bounce.

Yes, its "Har Tru" (brand name) which is the gritty material on top of the base material. There are several colors - green, gray and red are what you see the most ---- actually, I'm not sure if there are any other colors.

If the lines are "raised" very much, they should be redone or more base material can be used (generally not an effective cure). Often, the ball hits a nail head (for all practical purposes these are "generally" just long roofing nails - 2 - 3 inch in length) and the ball will bouce up at odd angles. However, there are different line materials and on some the ball will skid a spec more than others especially if there is any moisture.

When the lines appear "raised" they generally will start to get frayed and create a variety of problems. If the courts aren't cut right this happens frequently. Its not exactly "cheap" to have the lines re-done and courts re-leveled ---- can be in the thousand dollars/per court range. They use a laser gizmo for both the leveling and to re-set the lines.

I've seen some interesting screw-ups when clubs do their own lines.

 

[claycourter01]

clay court calls

On clay, my understanding of the code is that if you clearly see a gap between the mark left by the ball (outside the line), and the line, then the ball is out. If you cannot clearly see a gap, then the ball is in. Speculation as to whether part of the mark is caused by loose dirt, etc., is not part of the judgment; it's just either gap or no gap.

Also, note that you are responsible for all calls on your side of the court. It's OK for your opponent to ask if you are sure of your call, and he can check the mark later when you switch sides, but at the time of the call it is entirely your responsbility. As noted by other posters, when in doubt, your obligation is to call the ball in (i.e., against yourself).

 

[Camilio Pascual]

...but at the time of the call it is entirely your responsbility. As noted by other posters, when in doubt, your obligation is to call the ball in (i.e., against yourself).

With the proviso that any time you see your own ball go out on the opponent's side, it is your responsibility to call it out if your opponent doesn't.

 

[tom-selleck]

With the proviso that any time you see your own ball go out on the opponent's side, it is your responsibility to call it out if your opponent doesn't.

i always play this way (or i think i do), but is that etiquette? .... call balls out on other side if you see clearly??? ........... the nice thing is that you often think the ball was out but you aren't sure, so you get to apply same principles at other end.

 

[Camilio Pascual]

You are required to call your own balls out if you clearly see them out. You are not required to closely observe your ball for that specific purpose and it is probably best not to. Contrary to what Tilden says, I think it is more important to observe the player and his racquet just before and at the time of the ball's bounce, anyway. I posted in another thread to you to read the rules, you do seem to be playing in the spirit of the rules, somebody was giving his rationalization on his deviation from the rules. He is under the delusion that the standard for calling a ball "out" is somehow equal to the standard for sending a man to death. He is wrong, one may have some doubt in convicting a man, one must have NO doubt in tennis!!!