Russian made Kneissl. Progress-Blue Star Mid.

[BorgCash]

About a year and a half i wanted to upload the images of these racquets. Sorry for so long delay.
I will remind the story.
There were three types of Kneissl models produced under license in USSR in 1988-1991:
White Star Pro Masters - graphite - kevlar, named in Russia Мастер (Master);
Blue Star Mid - fiberglass - epoxy - Прогресс (Progress);
Red Star Big - boron - Гигант (Gigant - Giant).
They were very popular 'cause it was very difficult to get a good modern western made composite racquet in former Soviet Union. You could buy some Yonex models in special shops for dollars (very few could afford it) or somebody could bring some stuff from abroad trip (also quite unique case).

You can see different year production racquets (differ with colour and graphics) and compare with original Kneissl Blue Star Mid.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2m28ix1w6op5tks/20151025_185204.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c8l7fupcaf5ynmr/20151025_185247.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ld66gsnndp4r3vt/20151025_185306.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cg4tzao7t7g8tkr/20151025_185407.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpudce0llqd0cm4/20151025_185442.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7g9x20klssk2ji6/20151025_185532.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jygb04pjzyrmcpm/20151025_185617.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/swopgt1bfqmnrma/20151025_185723.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6je6y1drdm32t0/20151025_185850.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kmuo9dzkm0h8wb/20151025_185910.jpg?dl=0

You can see on the side of handle information about product date, grip size and weight.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/clnp8n7esto6h78/20151025_193252.jpg?dl=0

The covers.

 

[BorgCash]

I edited this post, add the links to images. Thank you.

 

[norco lapalco]

Those Russian models are gorgeous racquets!

 

[Grafil Injection]

Anyone know if the Russian Kneissls played similarly to the Austrian originals, with similar materials, flexes etc? Or were they just copies of the shapes with a local layup recipe used instead?

 

[BorgCash]

Anyone know if the Russian Kneissls played similarly to the Austrian originals, with similar materials, flexes etc? Or were they just copies of the shapes with a local layup recipe used instead?

It's a good question, it wasn't the same situation all the time. At the start after the contract was signed, Kneissl provide to Soviet side not only the molds, drawings, etc., but also some quantity of material as well to help for beginning the production as fast as possible. There were also some Austrian engineers in Moscow to help and control. In result, the very first racquets were almost identical to original Kneissl racquets, look like Kneissl, all the inscriptions were in English, the names were White Star, Blue Star, Red Star, the colours were also white, blue and red. The only difference was the inscription Made in USSR instead of Made in Austria. The feel was also very close to originals. To be continued.

 

[BorgCash]

Anyone know if the Russian Kneissls played similarly to the Austrian originals, with similar materials, flexes etc? Or were they just copies of the shapes with a local layup recipe used auseinstead?

So, this first period was short and the racquets produced during it, are quite rare now. The next period was period of official contract producing. During it all the racquets were painted in navy or soviet military grey colours (that were available in the country), the racquets were renamed to Master, Progress and Gigant instead of White, Blue and Red Star, the inscriptions were mainly in Russian but in English also, at the top of the head were printed "Made by licence of Kneissl", there were also printed the price and the production quality class sign. The quality of racquets were very different, mainly, at the beginning of this period it was higher than at the end. It was because of not so high professional level of staff, some stealing and bad attention and sloppiness - the usual things in former USSR (but not so big as in modern Russia). So it was some kind of lottery, you could get a good racquet or not. But nobody care - 99 per cent of people never played with good foreign made racquets, they don't know how it should be enough"good" or not. Also notice that everybody wanted these racquets and it was quite different to buy it at the shop and we had to "get" them by different ways - through friends or pay more than official price. To be continued.

 

[vsbabolat]

So back during Soviet times how did one go about selecting or buying a racket? Did you have a choice?

 

[kevin qmto]

What I have always wondered was: Why was there any text in English on these frames? If they were never meant to be exported at all, why bother?

 

[BorgCash]

So back during Soviet times how did one go about selecting or buying a racket? Did you have a choice?

How said one literary character "You always have a choice". In his case it was to stay alive or suicide himself.

 

[BorgCash]

What I have always wondered was: Why was there any text in English on these frames? If they were never meant to be exported at all, why bother?

I also asked the same question, actually i don't know, may be there were some plans to export them but where? To other "socialist" countries? I have no idea. I know that it was a huge interest for these racquets inside the country, for example, i've never seen them for sale in sport shops, when they were in shops they selling out very quickly.

 

[BorgCash]

So back during Soviet times how did one go about selecting or buying a racket? Did you have a choice?

Back to your question. You have to understand that it was a total deficit for all consumer goods, you will be surprised, even toilet paper - very bad quality, soviet made - was a big deficit, different kind of foods were also deficit, meat or coffee, etc. If you was lucky to have enough money for buying a car, you have to wait several years in line. Good furniture - the same situation.
To racquets, there were different ways to get it. You have friends in sport shops, that could keep the racquet for you, you could pay twice as official price (if you have money) at black market, the same situation was with pro sportsmen who get several racquets for free and selling some. Very seldom somebody who was lucky to have the ability to go abroad could bring a racquet, but mostly people bring jeans or some other popular things.

 

[retrowagen]

I imagine most people in the West would have no comprehension, no frame of reference, to understand what everday life was like in the former Soviet bloc countries, or even what it has been like in those lands since.

 

[vsbabolat]

Back to your question. You have to understand that it was a total deficit for all consumer goods, you will be surprised, even toilet paper - very bad quality, soviet made - was a big deficit, different kind of foods were also deficit, meat or coffee, etc. If you was lucky to have enough money for buying a car, you have to wait several years in line. Good furniture - the same situation.
To racquets, there were different ways to get it. You have friends in sport shops, that could keep the racquet for you, you could pay twice as official price (if you have money) at black market, the same situation was with pro sportsmen who get several racquets for free and selling some. Very seldom somebody who was lucky to have the ability to go abroad could bring a racquet, but mostly people bring jeans or some other popular things.

Was Völkl, Fischer, Kneissl, and HEAD the most popular brands?

 

[Grafil Injection]

So back during Soviet times how did one go about selecting or buying a racket? Did you have a choice?

I imagine most people in the West would have no comprehension, no frame of reference, to understand what everday life was like in the former Soviet bloc countries, or even what it has been like in those lands since.

My father regularly travelled to East Berlin through the 80s and I visited many of the Easter-bloc countries after separation in the 90s, and can confirm the dirth of basic goods was shocking. On the other hand, the sense of culture, education, health, family and society was extremely strong. If you were one of the comrades who was 'more equal than others', you had a pretty good lifestyle, although most of the young were glad to finally escape.

 

[michael valek]

I live in Slovakia now, some of this is still true, some not.

 

[Grafil Injection]

I live in Slovakia now, some of this is still true, some not.

Bratislava was developing very rapidly last time I was there, but Kosice was more traditional. Although that's 10 years ago.

 

[michael valek]

Developing as regards buildings….yes. But I like living here on the whole. Not much different from wales really apart from beer is cheaper and there are clay courts.

 

[Grafil Injection]

Developing as regards buildings….yes. But I like living here on the whole. Not much different from wales really apart from beer is cheaper and there are clay courts.

Are there any tennis courts in Wales?

 

[BorgCash]

Was Völkl, Fischer, Kneissl, and HEAD the most popular brands?

We used racquets that could get, there were no popular or unpopular brands, ok, i can say that every western made racquet was popular, every domestic made not. But even if you found a person who agreed to sell you good brand racquet you had to pay a big price for it, two-month salary of common people.

 

[BorgCash]

My father regularly travelled to East Berlin through the 80s and I visited many of the Easter-bloc countries after separation in the 90s, and can confirm the dirth of basic goods was shocking. On the other hand, the sense of culture, education, health, family and society was extremely strong. If you were one of the comrades who was 'more equal than others', you had a pretty good lifestyle, although most of the young were glad to finally escape.

Yes, we used to say "Everybody is equal (it was one of the most known communist slogan), but some is equal less and some is equal more".

 

[michael valek]

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

 

[BorgCash]

Was Völkl, Fischer, Kneissl, and HEAD the most popular brands?

In the second half of the 80's there were two brands that was easier to get (at least in Moscow) but only if you have enough money for it.
First - Volkl. For a long period Soviet national tennis team had a general contract with Adidas for racquets, clothing, shoes. It was the same situation for all Soviet national teams, Adidas was a general sponsor for all Soviet sport at top level. But in 1987 (i think) Volkl was chosen as a sponsor for national tennis team. Since that many Soviet players used Volkl racquets for some period (for example Cherkasov till now), clothing and shoes from Volkl wasn't quite good but the racquets were good. Immediately players who got Volkl racquets began to sell some extras to other players who could not get them. I remember one of the first available model was Servo Soft. The black market price for it was 350 roubles. The average monthly salary was around 180 r. Official price for best wood racquet Москва (Moscow - soviet pirate copy of Dunlop Maxply) was around 15 roubles, the best soviet made composite Master (licenced Kneissl White Star Pro) was 75 roubles.

 

[BorgCash]

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

Exactly. But now we live in his "1984" world.

 

[BorgCash]

Was Völkl, Fischer, Kneissl, and HEAD the most popular brands?

The second so-called available tennis brand was Yonex. But it was more difficult to get Yonex racquet. It was strongly prohibited for people to have foreign currency in Soviet Union. It was very serious crime to have it, it wasn't police but KGB case. You could easily be put in prison or in Siberia camp for ten years for it. Sometimes commies even shoot people if they have many dollars, pounds or deutsch marks. So, if you was lucky to work abroad and be paid in foreign currency, when you returned home you had to give all your currency to special bank and the bank give you so-called "foreign currency roubles". You could buy Soviet made deficit stuff for it and some western made consumer goods only in special shops called "Beriozka" (Birch tree). The most popular things were Hi-Fi audio, then video and TV receivers, alcohol, cigarettes, clothing. There were Yonex racquets in these shops at one period, i remember R-7, R-22. The price was around 115 foreign currency roubles.

 

[BorgCash]

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

Orwell' books were prohibited in Soviet Union.

 

[vsbabolat]

Orwell' books were prohibited in Soviet Union.

Are they still banned today?

 

[BorgCash]

Are they still banned today?

We live in bloody nightmare now. People arrested just for displaying Tolstoy' "Peace and War". To your question - yes, but not still, again.

 

[vsbabolat]

We live in bloody nightmare now. People arrested just for displaying Tolstoy' "Peace and War". To your question - yes, but not still, again.

Yes, stay safe!

 

[kevin qmto]

We live in bloody nightmare now. People arrested just for displaying Tolstoy' "Peace and War". To your question - yes, but not still, again.

Seems like a lot of peoples questions to you always revolve around the challenges you experienced growing up there. How hard and different our lives are in different countries and different parts of the world. Sometimes it seems people only ask about the hard times. (I’m guilty of doing that too.)

How about maybe share a positive experience of how you got into tennis or a fun match experience from back then, there had to be good times too, otherwise why would you still be active on a tennis forum right lol?

 

[BorgCash]

Yes, stay safe!

We have to learn to do it.

 

[BorgCash]

Seems like a lot of peoples questions to you always revolve around the challenges you experienced growing up there. How hard and different our lives are in different countries and different parts of the world. Sometimes it seems people only ask about the hard times. (I’m guilty of doing that too.)

How about maybe share a positive experience of how you got into tennis or a fun match experience from back then, there had to be good times too, otherwise why would you still be active on a tennis forum right lol?

You never understand how good is your life until it dramatically changed. It's difficult to understand people who live in very different reality. I'm at tennis forum now not to get mad and talk about something that i like - old tennis and vintage racquets.

 

[BorgCash]

Seems like a lot of peoples questions to you always revolve around the challenges you experienced growing up there. How hard and different our lives are in different countries and different parts of the world. Sometimes it seems people only ask about the hard times. (I’m guilty of doing that too.)

How about maybe share a positive experience of how you got into tennis or a fun match experience from back then, there had to be good times too, otherwise why would you still be active on a tennis forum right lol?

You pushed me to remember some positive things - when i was very young and active, i was crazy about tennis (since 1986), i was trying to practice and play at every possibility, so i bring my racquet everywhere with me, to institute also, the racquet was in racquet bag and one of our teachers thought that it wasn't a tennis racquet but a bat for russian batball game. It was funny because nobody already played this game for many years.

 

[BorgCash]

Anyone know if the Russian Kneissls played similarly to the Austrian originals, with similar materials, flexes etc? Or were they just copies of the shapes with a local layup recipe used instead?

At last there is the third period - unofficial. After several years of licenced production the quality of racquets dropped. One of the reason was that USSR soon will be be broken (in 1991) and everything get worst, economic also. So Kneissl stopped the contract but Moscow factory continued to produce the racquets, the color was mostly navy grey, bad quality, there wasn't "Made under licence of Kneissl" inscription on the top of racquets, the price became higher. So the last year of production was 1991 if i'm not wrong.

 

[kevin qmto]

At last there is the third period - unofficial. After several years of licenced production the quality of racquets dropped. One of the reason was that USSR soon will be be broken (in 1991) and everything get worst, economic also. So Kneissl stopped the contract but Moscow factory continued to produce the racquets, the color was mostly navy grey, bad quality, there wasn't "Made under licence of Kneissl" inscription on the top of racquets, the price became higher. So the last year of production was 1991 if i'm not wrong.

I have mine with me today, mine is dated February 1991. I’ll hit with it and record the results.

 

[BorgCash]

I have mine with me today, mine is dated February 1991. I’ll hit with it and record the results.

You have Progress - Blue Star?

 

[kevin qmto]

You have Progress - Blue Star?

sorry, I meant I have a Soviet frame from the late, unlicensed era. I shared it with you a while back, the Master. But I haven't hit with it much, and not while being recorded.

 

[vsbabolat]

At last there is the third period - unofficial. After several years of licenced production the quality of racquets dropped. One of the reason was that USSR soon will be be broken (in 1991) and everything get worst, economic also. So Kneissl stopped the contract but Moscow factory continued to produce the racquets, the color was mostly navy grey, bad quality, there wasn't "Made under licence of Kneissl" inscription on the top of racquets, the price became higher. So the last year of production was 1991 if i'm not wrong.

What is your go to racquet today?

 

[BorgCash]

sorry, I meant I have a Soviet frame from the late, unlicensed era. I shared it with you a while back, the Master. But I haven't hit with it much, and not while being recorded.

Master is a White Star Pro Copy, the same Lendl played with. Yours one is in great condition. Mine two were 390-400 gr strung. Butt cap' soft plastic broken down often. The racquet is great if you have a good technique and good footwork, in this case you could hit strong penetrate shots. Mostly flats but like heavy gun shots. Not so much for spin shots due to small head.

 

[BorgCash]

What is your go to racquet today?

What do you mean? Sorry, didn't understand you.

 

[vsbabolat]

What do you mean? Sorry, didn't understand you.

What is the main racquet you use today?

 

[BorgCash]

What is the main racquet you use today?

I have around 200 racquets in my collection and like to hit with different all the time. In general i like old heavy medium head sticks, for training i like smth like this small head Master or authentic Kneissl, PS Mid (85), Max 200G, etc. For playing i prefer more modern sticks like Dunlop Aerogel 4d 200 and 200 Tour, Hot Melt 300 Tour, POG Mid Plus, sometimes pc 600 and PT 630 and Yonex RD-7 and Rdis 100, Yamaha Secret-10, some other good racquets, different Donnay ones.

 

[kevin qmto]

Master is a White Star Pro Copy, the same Lendl played with. Yours one is in great condition. Mine two were 390-400 gr strung. Butt cap' soft plastic broken down often. The racquet is great if you have a good technique and good footwork, in this case you could hit strong penetrate shots. Mostly flats but like heavy gun shots. Not so much for spin shots due to small head.

Alright, well true to my word, here is the footage, I have to say its a blast to use. Once I got dialed in I was really crushing the ball with this Master. My serve had more power than with my usual racket that I had just played a match with. Let me know what you think!

 

[BorgCash]

Alright, well true to my word, here is the footage, I have to say its a blast to use. Once I got dialed in I was really crushing the ball with this Master. My serve had more power than with my usual racket that I had just played a match with. Let me know what you think!

LSO

I like your video. I see how you adapt to the racquet, feel more confident with your strokes. Several great penetrating forehand shots. What could i say, once you feel quite confident and comfortable with the racquet, try to hit, how to say, without fear, may be little risky shots, at full speed. Do it especially with forehand, You will love the results. Watch old videos how Lendl dio it. It will motivate you so much. Also noticed how good was his backhand shots with this racquet. Also, just my five cents, if i may i would pay your attention to your volleys, you need to faster adjust racquet head to your opponent shots to create slice shots with low ball bounce.
In general - you got good skills and great potential for improving. Keep on doing this way, put the small goals ahead of you and achieve them and you will progress steadily.
I beg you pardon for this comment, probably you know all this stuff. Let me say that i just couldn't stop with some advises . Thank you.

 

[BorgCash]

Alright, well true to my word, here is the footage, I have to say its a blast to use. Once I got dialed in I was really crushing the ball with this Master. My serve had more power than with my usual racket that I had just played a match with. Let me know what you think!

By the way, what strings and at what tension you got on your Master?
Also, do you play in basketball shoes?
Thank you.

 

[kevin qmto]

By the way, what strings and at what tension you got on your Master?
Also, do you play in basketball shoes?
Thank you.

First, thanks for the kind words about my play. The strings are Gamma Livewire 17g at 50lbs. The shoes are Adidas, and yes they are originally meant for basketball, but on these carpet (Boltex) courts, I actually prefer wearing them to normal hard court shoes, they are very supportive and comfortable. It’s hard to find any carpet tennis shoes anywhere now, as the surface is not as popular anymore.

 

[BorgCash]

So back during Soviet times how did one go about selecting or buying a racket? Did you have a choice?

I decided to show you the picture in general, what racquets soviet players had to play with. First, there were elite players, the members of national team, they were provided equipment (racquets, shoes, clothes) by state due to general contract with Adidas. It was the only player who had his personal contract -
Alexander Metreveli, 1973 Wimbledon finalist, the best ever Wimbledon result for soviet-russian male tennis. Metreveli had personal contract with Dunlop for racquets and shoes. Of course he played with Maxply. He also provided some of soviet top players with Dunlop racquets because they were better than Adidas.
Other top players, not elite, had the following choices:
First, when only wood racquets were available, the best soviet made racquet was Москва - Moscow, pirate copy of Dunlop Maxply. It was my first racquet since 1982.
A little later there were introduced metal racquets, the best available was Stomil, polish pirate copy of Head Edge aluminium racquet.
Then there were possibility to get Volkl and Yonex racquet as i described above.
Then Moscow sport plant begun to produce licensed Kneissl.
Later we had possibility to buy Indian (!) made racquets, pirate copy of Pro-Kennex, named Mayor (looks like French Major).
Also, first yellow bals were also Indian, Tennex and others, (available from 1986), before we only have soviet white balls Leningrad.

 

[BorgCash]

First, thanks for the kind words about my play. The strings are Gamma Livewire 17g at 50lbs. The shoes are Adidas, and yes they are originally meant for basketball, but on these carpet (Boltex) courts, I actually prefer wearing them to normal hard court shoes, they are very supportive and comfortable. It’s hard to find any carpet tennis shoes anywhere now, as the surface is not as popular anymore.

I even used basketball shoes for outdoor tennis last year. But i think i like more something low to the ground like vintage tennis shoes.

 

[BorgCash]

First, thanks for the kind words about my play. The strings are Gamma Livewire 17g at 50lbs. The shoes are Adidas, and yes they are originally meant for basketball, but on these carpet (Boltex) courts, I actually prefer wearing them to normal hard court shoes, they are very supportive and comfortable. It’s hard to find any carpet tennis shoes anywhere now, as the surface is not as popular anymore.

So, how do you like the racquet?

 

[kevin qmto]

So, how do you like the racquet?

For what it is, I like it a lot. It rewards players who have a good eye and racket preparation. Lots of power and it lives to bash flat ground strokes and serves. I was hitting my first serve harder with this than my usual racket with poly strings.

 

[BorgCash]

For what it is, I like it a lot. It rewards players who have a good eye and racket preparation. Lots of power and it lives to bash flat ground strokes and serves. I was hitting my first serve harder with this than my usual racket with poly strings.

Great, you understand racquet right from the first time. I'd like to use it for training, it push me to prepare early and try to maintain a good technique all the time. Then, when i play regular, i use 95'' head racquet about 360-365 gr strung weight, and in result it is much easier to play.