Serving Video - Help me improve

Cody

Semi-Pro
Hey Guys,

I have been playing tennis for around 9 months now and hope to improve by getting feedback from you guys *cough bungalow bill :)

My Other thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=274778

I changed my grip to a continential a month ago after finding out i had a pancake grip and this is how my serve has progressed.

http://www.vimeo.com/6678860

I feel i should be using more of my height by learning a nice flat serve as i show no signs of stopping gaining height

New Video: http://www.vimeo.com/6717158

Any feedback is welcome,

Please excuse the background noise, it's this annoying coach and his group of kids.

Thanks :)
 
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moroni

Rookie
emm good progress ur like 6'2 ? or 6'1 ? those serves should be faster more flat if u were working out like what 3-4 times a week?
 

jigar

Professional
Hold the even further down. This will allow easy wrist snap. You are spinning the ball it. You are brusing the ball up to get the ball over the net.
Think as your racquet is stuck between two water pipes when you hit the ball.
Now only direction you can move the racquet it forward not sideways or downward. Now if you have to hit a ball as hard as possible you have to swing through the ball in forward direction.
This is just to visualize how you hit ball through from contact point onwards.
It will be little tricky at first but once you get it, you will find it much easier.
Also as per research study (I couldn't find the link now) the angle of the racquet at the contact point doesn't have to at 12 o'clock to get mac power. It is actually between 11 and 12 o'clock. THis is for the righ handed player. For you it should be between 12 and 1.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
emm good progress ur like 6'2 ? or 6'1 ? those serves should be faster more flat if u were working out like what 3-4 times a week?

What do you mean by working out ?

Practice or Gym working out ??? lol me at a gym

I am looking to develop a nice flat serve.

PS: i'm 15, so if i keep growing a flat leftie serve could be a real weapon hopefully.

Thanks
 

dincuss

Hall of Fame
A flat leftie serve should be no different from a righty flat.

try to use your legs more and explode at the ball making contact when your arm is fully extended
 

meltphace 6

Hall of Fame
Try and see what happens if you keep your right shoulder/arm up higher with the ball toss (maybe throw a couple tennis balls with low and high left shoulder so you can get a feel for the difference). Also maybe have your right hip move a bit more into the court. As you know, the tennis serve is a throwing motion so you can apply many of those mechanics to your serve.

serve_comp.png
 

meltphace 6

Hall of Fame
Your stance reminds me of McEnroe. Ever tried to point your right foot a tad more towards the net pole? Maybe you can try that out and see if it works for you.

Be more explosive!
 

SuperFly

Semi-Pro
What do you mean by working out ?

Practice or Gym working out ??? lol me at a gym

I am looking to develop a nice flat serve.

PS: i'm 15, so if i keep growing a flat leftie serve could be a real weapon hopefully.

Thanks

Holy crap, I'm 15 and a lefty and need to work on my serve. :shock: But you serve a lot better than me.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
A flat leftie serve should be no different from a righty flat.

try to use your legs more and explode at the ball making contact when your arm is fully extended

Your right, I don't know why I said that

So I need to get my shoulders more like federer and explode into the ball.

Keep the feedback coming
Nice federer pic btw
Thanks guys
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Your stance reminds me of McEnroe. Ever tried to point your right foot a tad more towards the net pole? Maybe you can try that out and see if it works for you.

Be more explosive!


i'll be sure to try this next time i serve, should i go for a platform or pinpoint stance.

I think i'll use this slow spinny serve as my second serve and work on a flat serve.
 

meltphace 6

Hall of Fame
i'll be sure to try this next time i serve, should i go for a platform or pinpoint stance.
There's no reason to go for the pinpoint.
I think i'll use this slow spinny serve as my second serve and work on a flat serve.
It's good to have all different kinds of serves in your arsenal: kick, slice, flat. Variation of spin and placement is the key.

And re "second serve": of course, it has to be rock solid since you don't want to double fault too often.
But it should be your goal to be just as explosive with your 2nd serve as you are with your first with the difference being that you invest the gained raquet head speed primarily to generate spin.

Plus, keep in mind that I'm not a pro (I'm a decent player though). So think about whether the stuff I posted here makes any sense for you.
 

Jaewonnie

Professional
Hit harder man. Get your body into it. The first thing I see wrong is your swing speed. If you can swing fast with your current body stance and movement, no doubt your serve can be around 80-90 mph. The serves in your vid are around 60-70 ish. I do see some flaws in your technique (like trophy pose and racket drop). Thats a good sign though. Means you got some room to improve. IMO i think if you fix up your serve, you'll be serving 100-110 mph no problem.

Watch other players serve. It should help.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Hit harder man. Get your body into it. The first thing I see wrong is your swing speed. If you can swing fast with your current body stance and movement, no doubt your serve can be around 80-90 mph. The serves in your vid are around 60-70 ish. I do see some flaws in your technique (like trophy pose and racket drop). Thats a good sign though. Means you got some room to improve. IMO i think if you fix up your serve, you'll be serving 100-110 mph no problem.

Watch other players serve. It should help.

Thanks man, i notice lots of room for improvement in my serve too and would be thrilled if i could serve 90mph.

Lately i have been focusing on technique and i think i have translated that a relaxed arm means a slow arm, i am going to fix my swing speed right away while keeping my arm relaxed.

See how in that comparison to federer picture my trophy pose is all wrong, as my racket and elbow are not straight and pointing at the ball.

Should i aim to copy federer trophy pose.

Thanks for all your help.
 

Jaewonnie

Professional
Thanks man, i notice lots of room for improvement in my serve too and would be thrilled if i could serve 90mph.

Lately i have been focusing on technique and i think i have translated that a relaxed arm means a slow arm, i am going to fix my swing speed right away while keeping my arm relaxed.

See how in that comparison to federer picture my trophy pose is all wrong, as my racket and elbow are not straight and pointing at the ball.

Should i aim to copy federer trophy pose.

Thanks for all your help.

Well first, since you need to improve your swing, forget about all that knee bend and body movement. First focus on the fundamentals and in your case, your swing motion and trophy pose. It's best to first learn a flat serve and what your doing in the vid is spinning the ball way too much. I used to serve like that 1 year ago and now I'm serving 80-90 mph with room for improvement (i'm 14).

First lets start with your toss. Toss atleast 2-3 feet above head level (you'll start tosssing higher once you get used to the service motion) and make sure there is some kind of pause (trophy pose) in your swing motion after the racket take back. So in the trophy pose, since your learning the motion, you don't need to bend your knee too much and stuff cause it'll interfere with other mechanics. During the pause your racket head should be around your head area (yours is like pointing up at the sky). And because this might be new too you, you don't have to hold the pose for long; it can be like a split second long but the trophy pose is important. Here's why. After the trophy pose (when your toss starts descending), you drop your racket to your back area and swing up to contact. This motion is sort of like a spring rotation ( sry I didnt add this earlier but your serve stance should be 45 to 90 degrees into the court) so there will be some body rotation. And if you want pace and dont want the spinning aciton, when swining into contact, reach high. As you unwind from trophy/racket drop to contact, your feet might even leave the ground. That's good, it means your using your body in your serve technique (a must if you wanna serve hard).

Now, the follow through after contact. If you find that your serve will go long (99% it will), snap that wrist. You dunno how much pace you can generate from that small part of your arm. (IMPORTANT: when you snap your wrist don't muscle the ball down too much or you'll screw up your arm. Keep it semi-loose). You should think of it as you are putting a sword back in it's sheath as you followthrough. For a flat serve, followthrough toward your backhand side but don't go straight across to that side or it might screw up your motion. If you see Fed serve, he sorta followthroughs downwards (like 90 degrees) and then bring his racket to his backhand side.

Practice the motion (if you understand the gibberish I said above) slowly first. You should never swing so hard on a serve that you lose your balance. You have to swing fast but in a loose way. Unless you realize this feeling, you'll probably not end up serving good.

If you think what I said up there was too hard to follow, watch some Fuzzy Yellow Balls (google it) and watch their serve progressions sections under Lessons. Once you sorta get the hang of it or if you still don't really get it, watch how the players do it. Mimic their motion.

Sry if this is too hard to follow and ends up messing your serve up.
 
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Cody

Semi-Pro
Yesterday i filmed my serve again trying to put into practice some of the things you guys said.
This serve motion is a bit uncomfortable as yesterday was the first time i tried it.
I mainly tried to focus on my swing and trophy pose. (i need to explode into the ball more)
So what do i need to improve to serve more flat and consistent.

Here is the video:http://www.vimeo.com/6717158
 

Jaewonnie

Professional
Yesterday i filmed my serve again trying to put into practice some of the things you guys said.
This serve motion is a bit uncomfortable as yesterday was the first time i tried it.
I mainly tried to focus on my swing and trophy pose. (i need to explode into the ball more)
So what do i need to improve to serve more flat and consistent.

Here is the video:http://www.vimeo.com/6717158

It's a private vid :neutral:
 

Jaewonnie

Professional
wow you have very nice topspin on your serves. That's better than a flat if you can hit that hard.

Now keep on practicing until you can constantly hit your serves into the service box (not the side fence:)).

Once you can do that, your ready to juice up your serve.

PS You're doing the kick serve and it's very nice.
 
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Cody

Semi-Pro
wow you have very nice topspin on your serves. That's better than a flat if you can hit that hard.

Now keep on practicing until you can constantly hit your serves into the service box (not the side fence:)).

Once you can do that, your ready to juice up your serve.

All that topspin is what happened when i non stop practiced topspin serves, now i'm trying to hit flat but the topspin is still there.

Here is the new video everyone:http://www.vimeo.com/6717158
 
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moroni

Rookie
this is good improvement ur stance is much better the motion is good u should there is definitely room for more power considering your height but i wouldnt worry about that now you should get used to the motion first but one thing u could work on now is the ball toss you should toss higher thar wont only give you more time to get in pefect position but will also improve your consistency provided that you concentrate on throwing the ball about 1.5 feet into the court that will help you with power and it will add enough spin for the ball to get into the service box but in genral u made serious improvemnt considering the time u had to work on your new serve (kinda hurts when tou watch ur first serve doesnt it?)
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Yeh it does,

Thanks for the advice, i'm going to work on getting this motion consistent before looking to bump up my serving speed.

Thanks again :)
 

Kick Serve 14

Professional
there is nol point it using that serve for a second derve, it is VERY versitile... use that as both a first and second, and then work on getting a better first serve in practices on your own time....
 

tennis_pr0

Semi-Pro
Cody, I think you have made much improvement in your serve. Mechanically, the basics are there - you're lower body and upper body preparation seemed to be timed well, decent racquet drop, good trophy pose. Lets take it from your trophy pose now, the key thing to do is propel upwards and rotate into the ball, this is going to give you maximum pace on your serve. It seems like after your trophy pose you are not bringing your weight into the court enough - it seems as if you are using all arm in your serve. Throwing your weight into the ball with a good wrist snap (good pronation) are the two key things for velocity. This being said, I think if you keep practicing you will make those adjustments by just keeping them in mind. It takes practice practice practice. I just wanted to emphasize on those to aspects since you seem to have a good motion already and the other basic parts of your serve seem to be good. Just work on a nice smooth motion of throwing your weight up into the ball and you will most definitely get more mph's on your serve. Hope this helps.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Cody, I think you have made much improvement in your serve. Mechanically, the basics are there - you're lower body and upper body preparation seemed to be timed well, decent racquet drop, good trophy pose. Lets take it from your trophy pose now, the key thing to do is propel upwards and rotate into the ball, this is going to give you maximum pace on your serve. It seems like after your trophy pose you are not bringing your weight into the court enough - it seems as if you are using all arm in your serve. Throwing your weight into the ball with a good wrist snap (good pronation) are the two key things for velocity. This being said, I think if you keep practicing you will make those adjustments by just keeping them in mind. It takes practice practice practice. I just wanted to emphasize on those to aspects since you seem to have a good motion already and the other basic parts of your serve seem to be good. Just work on a nice smooth motion of throwing your weight up into the ball and you will most definitely get more mph's on your serve. Hope this helps.

Thanks,

So these are the things i should be focusing on:

-Transfer weight into the ball
-Rotate into Ball
-Wrist snap (should this be from relaxed arm, not forced)
-Smooth motion


Thanks again :)
 

tennis_pr0

Semi-Pro
Yes, as a previous reply said, you need to "explode" into the ball. This happens when your body propels into the ball along with a good wrist snap. The wrist snap will happen from a relaxed arm and grip, yes. To practice throwing your weight into the ball better, focus and make sure you are doing a proper knee bend. For the wrist snap (pronation), just focus on having a relaxed arm and timing and grip and timing it so your pronation happens right at impact of the ball. Basically Cody, just keep doing what you are doing, but as you serve try to keep these ideas in your head. You will not develop a perfect serve over night, and like anythuing else, it takes a lot of practice to finally feel completly comfortable with that shot. I think you ar eon the right path though so keep practicing and post some new videos as you progress, but liek I said before, overall it is already a solid long serve and the basic mechanics are already there.
 

tennis_pr0

Semi-Pro
I just read Jaewonnie's reply and the part where he says "swing fast but in a loose way" , that was very well said. Try to really keep that in mind when serving, I thunk that will help with a good wrist snap. Just wanted to add that in there :)
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Damn,

I just got back from a match where i swear my serve percentage was only about 15%
I didn't have a game were i didn't double fault.

I just need to practice practice practice.
 

moroni

Rookie
well at this point dont worry about winning or losing i know it hurts when you lose but you should focus more on improving the consistency will come along with practise so if your servrs hit the top of the net or go a little long dont worry because you are doing the right thing and always remember "swing fast not hard" you will come to see that big serves come when you are relaxed and like the guys above me said involve more body into it when and one more thing make sure that the raquet stops even if for a second in the air after the toss
 

tennis_pr0

Semi-Pro
It's a process Cody, you have to keep practicing and experimenting until you reach a good comfort level. You will get there, but just like anything, it takes time and patience.
 

dozu

Banned
can't see much wrong with it, considering how long you have played..... you are naturally athletic, which is a big gift for tennis.

don't worry about which serve you should learn first.... to some people kicks are more natural than flats, if you feel more comfortable with kicks, stick with it, you can always flatten it out later by changing your ball toss and timing of your pronation.

your ball toss definitely needs to be more consistent, go to Will's site and do that ball toss drill.

from the video angle, I can't see for sure, but maybe your head drops down just a tad early, this will cause you either pull down the serve into the net, or if your head goes in front of the contact point, you will hit it long... make sure you see the contact.

the rest of it is just practice...... just be aware that you need to be relaxed and explosive into the ball, but do NOT concentrate on these things.... you only need to be aware of this principles.... when you have better timing, you will relax and be more explosive... these things will happen naturally when you get better.... when you are still learning, and timing is still all over the place, your body will naturally tense up trying to make contact.

next time, post a video from the side angle (instead of the down the line view), that will help us to see if there are other issues.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Thanks Guys,

I definitely need to fix my toss.
This is another video i took on the same day as my second video, except it is from a different angle
http://www.vimeo.com/6759056
I will be sure to capture a side view of my serve next time i film.

Thanks again guys
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
Can anybody makeout what grip I am using, I am worried that my grip
is wrong???

Thanks (=
 
For serving you want to hold it just like you would a hammer with the vee between your thumb and forefinger lined up along the top bevel. Something I didn't know for my first 40 years playing.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
For serving you want to hold it just like you would a hammer with the vee between your thumb and forefinger lined up along the top bevel. Something I didn't know for my first 40 years playing.

So can you see if i'm using the right grip from these videos.
 

callen3615

Professional
Good improvement dude. Ive been playing about as long as you have. My serve isnt too good either. Your lucky tho. Your tall. Im not I have to hit topspin on both of my serves to get them in. If I were you I would flatten out your first serve and hit the **** out of it. :)
 

callen3615

Professional
I noticed that your first serves were 2 hopping into the fence. Im alot smaller than you but I one hop my first serves into the fence, try to use more legs and more wrist. That helped me out alot.
 

Cody

Semi-Pro
I'm trying too hit flat but i just can't, i am trying to develop a flat serve.

I have a regular spin serve but here i'm focusing on hitting flat but it still hits some spin.

This is the best video to judge from

http://www.vimeo.com/6717158
 

paulorenzo

Hall of Fame
I'm trying too hit flat but i just can't, i am trying to develop a flat serve.

I have a regular spin serve but here i'm focusing on hitting flat but it still hits some spin.

This is the best video to judge from

http://www.vimeo.com/6717158

try to pronate your forearm and snap your wrist through contact. it seems like youre just putting spin on the ball which is effective to an extent, in order to hit a serve flat, one needs to practice pronating one's forearm/snapping the wrist on the serve.
 
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