Some Peak Fed Gems

[JaoSousa]

Full match, but looks like highlights for the quality Federer showed:

Amazing

 

[ForehandRF]

This was absolutely brutal.

 

[ForehandRF]

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[robthai]

 

[Third Serve]

Might've been poasted already on this thread, but here we go:

 

[Third Serve]

I guess 2002 isn't exactly peak Federer but there were sparks of brilliance for sure!

 

[Pheasant]

Never mind, I’ll do the work for you.

Since 2007-2010 is a four-year period and 2017-2018 only a two-year period, I’ll add 2016 and 2019 to the latter. I’ll name them “young Djokovic” and “old Federer”, respectively, just for the sake of this analysis.

Slam wins: Old Federer (3) > Young Djokovic (1)
Extra Slam finals: Young Djokovic (2) > Old Federer (1)
Extra Slam semifinals: Young Djokovic (6) > Old Federer (4)
YEC: Young Djokovic (1) > Old Federer (0)
Masters: Young Djokovic (5) > Old Federer (4)
Extra Masters finals: Young Djokovic (6) > Old Federer (4)
“Small” titles (that is, ATP 500 and below): Old Federer (9) > Young Djokovic (8)

It’s actually extremely close. The Slam count gives Federer a convincing resume but Djokovic is ahead in every other relevant statistic. Also, when you factor in his greater competition — prime Federer (and even peak Federer in 2007) and prime (and even peak Nadal in 2008 and 2010), both of whom eliminated him many times in the Slams, though he drew Nadal more— I think there is an excellent case for “young” Djokovic having achieved a higher level than “old Federer”.

Nice work. I would agree that 2007-2010 Djoker was easily better than 2016-2019 Federer. If we take 2016-2019 Federer and move him back 9 years in time to replace Djoker, we get:

2008 AO: 2017 Fed would need to beat old-man Hewitt, James Blake, mono Fed, and Tsonga. 2017 Fed saved his best stuff for for the final at the AO. But he was not good at all against Nishikori, or even Stan. It’s possible that he gets upset before reaching the final. But I will give this to 2017 Fed. He wins this title.

2008 WI: there’s no way he’s beating Federer and Nadal back to back.

2009 AO: there’s no way that he’s beating Roddick, Federer, and Nadal in succession.

And lastly, 2016 Fed would easily be taken out by 2007 Fed at each slam. He would not gain back any slam titles here.

There goes at least 2 of his slam titles right there.

Old man Fed lost slam matches to post-peak Delpo, Kandy, Millman, Tsitsipas, and Dimitrov; all before making the semis. Those are 5 horrendous losses.

Don’t get me wrong. 2016-2019 Fed has far exceeded my expectations. It’s amazing that he’s been this competitive during his age 35-38 seasons. 99% of all pro tennis players retire before turning 38. Only Rosewall’s age 35-38 seasons are close in the men’s Open Era. But even there, I would take Old man Fed.

 

[Third Serve]

Nice work. I would agree that 2007-2010 Djoker was easily better than 2016-2019 Federer. If we take 2016-2019 Federer and move him back 9 years in time to replace Djoker, we get:

2008 AO: 2017 Fed would need to beat old-man Hewitt, James Blake, mono Fed, and Tsonga. 2017 Fed saved his best stuff for for the final at the AO. But he was not good at all against Nishikori, or even Stan. It’s possible that he gets upset before reaching the final. But I will give this to 2017 Fed. He wins this title.

2008 WI: there’s no way he’s beating Federer and Nadal back to back.

2009 AO: there’s no way that he’s beating Roddick, Federer, and Nadal in succession.

And lastly, 2016 Fed would easily be taken out by 2007 Fed at each slam. He would not gain back any slam titles here.

There goes at least 2 of his slam titles right there.

Old man Fed lost slam matches to post-peak Delpo, Kandy, Millman, Tsitsipas, and Dimitrov; all before making the semis. Those are 5 horrendous losses.

Don’t get me wrong. 2016-2019 Fed has far exceeded my expectations. It’s amazing that he’s been this competitive during his age 35-38 seasons. 99% of all pro tennis players retire before turning 38. Only Rosewall’s age 35-38 seasons are close in the men’s Open Era. But even there, I would take Old man Fed.

I agree with all of this, but since I was quoting Lew, I felt like I needed to just stick with the statistics and not analyze anything.

EDIT: However, I wonder if 2019 Fed would stand a decent chance at Wimbledon 2010 if he was placed in Djokovic's spot. I think he would beat Berdych and still make the final. Not sure if he'd beat Nadal though.

 

[Pheasant]

I agree with all of this, but since I was quoting Lew, I felt like I needed to just stick with the statistics and not analyze anything.

EDIT: However, I wonder if 2019 Fed would stand a decent chance at Wimbledon 2010 if he was placed in Djokovic's spot. I think he would beat Berdych and still make the final. Not sure if he'd beat Nadal though.

Lmao and true dat on the first paragraph.

Your second point is a good one too. I think he’s at 40% chance of winning 2010 Wimbledon and 60% at 2008 AO. So that’s still one slam title.

 

[Lew II]

@Third Serve

Federer is considered old at least since 2014, not just since 2016.

 

[Third Serve]

@Third Serve

Federer is considered old at least since 2014, not just since 2016.

Yeah, but since the conversation started with 2017-2018, I had to work around there.

 

[Lew II]

Nice work. I would agree that 2007-2010 Djoker was easily better than 2016-2019 Federer. If we take 2016-2019 Federer and move him back 9 years in time to replace Djoker, we get:

2008 AO: 2017 Fed would need to beat old-man Hewitt, James Blake, mono Fed, and Tsonga. 2017 Fed saved his best stuff for for the final at the AO. But he was not good at all against Nishikori, or even Stan. It’s possible that he gets upset before reaching the final. But I will give this to 2017 Fed. He wins this title.

2008 WI: there’s no way he’s beating Federer and Nadal back to back.

2009 AO: there’s no way that he’s beating Roddick, Federer, and Nadal in succession.

And lastly, 2016 Fed would easily be taken out by 2007 Fed at each slam. He would not gain back any slam titles here.

There goes at least 2 of his slam titles right there.

Old man Fed lost slam matches to post-peak Delpo, Kandy, Millman, Tsitsipas, and Dimitrov; all before making the semis. Those are 5 horrendous losses.

Don’t get me wrong. 2016-2019 Fed has far exceeded my expectations. It’s amazing that he’s been this competitive during his age 35-38 seasons. 99% of all pro tennis players retire before turning 38. Only Rosewall’s age 35-38 seasons are close in the men’s Open Era. But even there, I would take Old man Fed.

Nice, now I want to know about 2011-14 Djokovic against Federer's 2004-07 opponents.

 

[Lew II]

..

 

[robthai]

Solid match from Fed. Nalbandian got his revenge the following year at the same tournament.

 

[Lew II]

Solid match from Fed. Nalbandian got his revenge the following year at the same tournament.

But Federer was 8 months past his peak.

Federer is known to have the longest career ever at the top level but at the same time the shortest peak ever (less than 3 and a half years).

 

[robthai]

But Federer was 8 months past his peak.

Federer is known to have the longest career ever at the top level but at the same time the shortest peak ever (less than 3 and a half years).

Whats gotten into you today? I am just simply posting some old Federer matches and you're just here to hate and troll.
Djokovic can only peak 1 year at a time where as Federer peaked for 4 straight years.

 

[ForehandRF]

Solid match from Fed. Nalbandian got his revenge the following year at the same tournament.

Fed's best indoors season alongside 2011.

 

[robthai]

Fed's best indoors season alongside 2011.

2010 would have also been up there if not for his strange loss against Monfils in Paris.

 

[ForehandRF]

2010 would have also been up there if not for his strange loss against Monfils in Paris.

Yeah, that was a Federesque loss.Fortunately he had an impressive run at the WTF after that.

 

[SilverLining]

Favorite shot. 2009 US Open semis when Fed pulled a tweener to get match point against Djoker.

 

[ForehandRF]

Favorite shot. 2009 US Open semis when Fed pulled a tweener to get match point against Djoker.

Times when he rarely blinked on MP.

 

[Lew II]

Whats gotten into you today? I am just simply posting some old Federer matches and you're just here to hate and troll.
Djokovic can only peak 1 year at a time where as Federer peaked for 4 straight years.

2012-14 was peak but competition was strong.

 

[robthai]

2012-14 was peak but competition was strong.

Peak Djokovic lost to strong era players like Nishikori and Wawrinka in slams during that period lol

 

[Lew II]

Peak Djokovic lost to strong era players like Nishikori and Wawrinka in slams during that period lol

Slam finals/semifinals against ATGs:

2004-06 Federer --> 4
2012-14 Djokovic --> 12

 

[robthai]

Slam finals/semifinals against ATGs:

2004-06 Federer --> 4
2012-14 Djokovic --> 12

Typical Lew. Deflecting and avoiding the question when you have no answers.

 

[Lew II]

Typical Lew. Deflecting and avoiding the question when you have no answers.

2004-06 Federer lost two Slams to non-great (2004 RG and 2005 AO) just like 2012-14 Djokovic.

The difference is in what other players they had to deal with.

 

[robthai]

2004-06 Federer lost two Slams to non-great (2004 RG and 2005 AO) just like 2012-14 Djokovic.

The difference is in what other players they had to deal with.

Kuertan is a RG legend and clay court great (also RG has always been Feds weakest slam), hence why I don't include guys like Murray. But Wawrinka and Nishikori??? It doesn't look good that during his peak he lost two those guys at his best slams.

 

[Lew II]

Kuertan is a RG legend and clay court great (also RG has always been Feds weakest slam), hence why I don't include guys like Murray. But Wawrinka and Nishikori??? It doesn't look good that during his peak he lost two those guys at his best slams.

Kuerten was #30, give me a break.

 

[ForehandRF]

2004-06 Federer lost two Slams to non-great (2004 RG and 2005 AO) just like 2012-14 Djokovic.

The difference is in what other players they had to deal with.

That loss to Kuerten was pretty bad, but Fed was not a force at RG back in 2004.Djokovic was a USO champion by the time he lost to Nishikori, so you can't really compare these two cases.You shouldn't bring into discussion the Safin loss in 2005 because he could have beaten anyone that day.He showed one of the highest levels ever at the AO.

 

[robthai]

btw Djokovic won only 3 games against 2005 Safin. I get that he was still a baby but it was a pretty bad beat-down nonetheless.

 

[robthai]

Kuerten was #30, give me a break.

Safin was ranked # 75 when Djokovic (ranked 3) lost to him at Wimbledon in 2008

 

[Lew II]

That loss to Kuerten was pretty bad, but Fed was not a force at RG back in 2004.Djokovic was a USO champion by the time he lost to Nishikori, so you can't really compare these two cases.You shouldn't bring into discussion the Safin loss in 2005 because he could have beaten anyone that day.He showed one of the highest levels ever at the AO.

Wawrinka also showed one of the highest level at 2014 AO.

Federer 2004 was peak, no excuses. It was one of his best seasons and also won a clay masters beating the #1 specialist at the time (Coria).

 

[Lew II]

btw Djokovic won only 3 games against 2005 Safin. I get that he was still a baby but it was a pretty bad beat-down nonetheless.

This post tells everything we should know about you.

 

[ForehandRF]

Wawrinka also showed one of the highest level at 2014 AO.

Federer 2004 was peak, no excuses.

Not on clay though, he was yet to reach a SF at RG, but he could have done better nonetheless.It is what it is at the end of the day.The loss vs Gulbis in 2014 was much worse if you ask me.

 

[Lew II]

Not on clay though, he was yet to reach a SF at RG, but he could have done better nonetheless.It is what it is at the end of the day.The loss vs Gulbis in 2014 was much worse if you ask me.

Ok Djokovic was not peak at 2014 USO, he had just 1 title and had lost early in the two previous tournaments.

 

[robthai]

Ok Djokovic was not peak at 2014 USO, he had just 1 title and had lost early in the two previous tournaments.

from 2007-2014 Djokovic reached at least the semi finals every year at the US Open. Prior to 2005 Fed never made is past the 4th round of the French. He lost in the 1st rounds in both 2002 and 2003 at the French.

 

[robthai]

Wawrinka also showed one of the highest level at 2014 AO.

Federer 2004 was peak, no excuses. It was one of his best seasons and also won a clay masters beating the #1 specialist at the time (Coria).

Safin in 2005 was more impressive in my opinion.

 

[Lew II]

from 2007-2014 Djokovic reached at least the semi finals every year at the US Open. Prior to 2005 Fed never made is past the 4th round of the French. He lost in the 1st rounds in both 2002 and 2003 at the French.

In the 5 years after 2004 Federer lost only to Nadal at RG.

LOL I don't even know why we're having this discussion. If Federer couldn't peak on clay during one of his best seasons it's on him, just like it's on Djokovic he if he lost to Wawrinka and Nishikori.

 

[robthai]

In the 5 years after 2004 Federer lost only to Nadal at RG.

LOL I don't even know why we're having this discussion. If Federer couldn't peak on clay during one of his best seasons it's on him, just like it's on Djokovic he if he lost to Wawrinka and Nishikori.

exactly, he improved his results at RG starting in 2005. Prior to that year, he had never been good at the French Open.

 

[robthai]

In the 5 years after 2004 Federer lost only to Nadal at RG.

LOL I don't even know why we're having this discussion. If Federer couldn't peak on clay during one of his best seasons it's on him, just like it's on Djokovic he if he lost to Wawrinka and Nishikori.

Because Djokovic lost on his most dominant surfaces.

 

[Lew II]

Because Djokovic lost on his most dominant surfaces.

Ok.

 

[Third Serve]

It’s sad to see what this thread has turned into. A celebration of Federer’s talent has devolved into a weak era debate. This is ridiculous.

 

[ForehandRF]

Revenons a nos moutons

 

[robthai]

 

[ForehandRF]

Fast, low bounce + indoors = perfect conditions for Federer.Not even the Shanghai Masters plays as fast these days imo.

 

[Krish0608]

This was absolutely brutal.

I remember watching this live and just laughing throughout. It was God mode for 3 sets straight. Never let up for even a moment. Brutal.

 

[Breakpointerer]

It’s sad to see what this thread has turned into. A celebration of Federer’s talent has devolved into a weak era debate. This is ridiculous.

But it's also unsurprising, unfortunately.

 

[ForehandRF]

I remember watching this live and just laughing throughout. It was God mode for 3 sets straight. Never let up for even a moment. Brutal.

Yeah, Fed in savage mode.This match was a reminder of the one against Roddick in 2007, at the same tournament.
Too bad he underestimated Delpo at the USO based on this match.I think Fed didn't took into consideration that he can lose at a HC slam vs Delpo after that, but reality had other plans.

 

[ForehandRF]